Print Page | Close Window

new 79 tique

Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50315
Printed Date: April-27-2024 at 5:56am


Topic: new 79 tique
Posted By: reed462
Subject: new 79 tique
Date Posted: October-16-2021 at 11:49pm
Picked up a 1979 Ski tique with a commander 302 with a 4 barrel holley carb for a school project. Boat needs a tune, floors are actually solid, carpet too. Thinking it needs new coil and distributor, it started right up the other day, i tried it today and all im getting is a clicking sound coming from what i believe is the distributor/coil. Any ideas? thanks

-------------
79 Tique



Replies:
Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: October-17-2021 at 12:13am
or maybe a new cap? its really corroded so maybe the connection is being interupted?

-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-17-2021 at 8:11am
The distributor or coil shouldn't really be clicking

With somebody turning the key for you, check to see if the clicking is from the solenoid/relay mounted on the back of the engine, for the starter 

If your battery is low or you have bad connections you can get that clicking of the solenoid.

If that's the case, charge the battery and clean your connections at the battery, the solenoid and the negative cable connection to the engine block as a place to start.




Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: October-19-2021 at 12:37pm
Had someone turn her over for me and I still believe that it’s coming from the distributor/coil area, nothing coming from the solenoid. It only clicks when I turn the key all the way off. Very confusedSleepy 

-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-19-2021 at 1:28pm
I'm a little confused too I guess Wink

When you turn the key to Start, does the engine turn over with the starter or just click from wherever?


Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: October-20-2021 at 7:50am
Just getting a click, no turning over. Cleaned all of the connections for the solenoid, starter, coil, and cap and still no luck, gonna charge the battery when i get home from school today and see what happens.

-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: bwinn
Date Posted: October-20-2021 at 10:33am
Can you turn the motor over with a big ratchet/socket on the crankshaft bolt? May be seized? If you can turn it over by hand then jump the two terminals on the starter with a screwdriver or the like and see if it cranks.


Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: October-20-2021 at 11:39am
Originally posted by reed462 reed462 wrote:

Just getting a click, no turning over. Cleaned all of the connections for the solenoid, starter, coil, and cap and still no luck, gonna charge the battery when i get home from school today and see what happens.

Don't forget to clean your battery terminals also, sounds like it could be a bad battery connection.


Posted By: Smithfamily
Date Posted: October-21-2021 at 7:44am
You did check oil levels and quality before this initial start up?

-------------
Js


Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: October-23-2021 at 11:43am
Yes, Oil is good and tranny fluid has a solid red color, no milk. Was just going to test my little fix on the float bowls and idle adjustment and was baffled when i got nothing after turning the key.

-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: February-23-2022 at 1:20pm
So the only way the boat will turn over is when it’s in gear. I get that clicking sound from the distributor area when I leave throttle in neu, when I throw it in fwd it turns right over but doesn’t start. 

-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: February-23-2022 at 2:46pm
There is a neutral safety switch on the transmission and it needs to tell the boat it is in neutral or it will not turn over at all.  Sometimes you need to jiggle the shift lever to make sure it is in neutral to make it spin the engine when you turn the key.  Once it is fully in neutral pull the shift button out locking it in neutral and allowing you to now use the throttle without engaging the tranny.   
It sounds like your tranny shift linkage may not be in sync with your throttle linkage.  You could just disconnect the tranny shifter cable at the transmission and leave it loose until you sort this out.  Manually shift the tranny into the center lock position, you can feel the ball detents engage at Forward, Neutral and Reverse.  Test all three and make sure it is seated in neutral.  Then try your key, the engine should spin.

 As far as your clicking sound, are you sure the dist cap is properly seated and the rotor inside is not hitting the cap as it turns?  There is not much there than can click.


-------------


Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: February-23-2022 at 8:19pm
thank you for that info, tomorrow ill disconnect the cable from the trans and play around with the lever, ive fiddled with the lever on the trans before and there is some play in the nuetral gear.

-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-24-2022 at 9:21am
If the engine turns over but won't start when you have it in forward (because of cable adjustment issues like mentioned above), if you adjust the cable correctly, then you'll have an engine that turns over in neutral but still won't start.

You seem to have 2 unrelated issues, first the neutral safety switch/shift cable adjustment and second an ignition issue since when it's turning over, it won't start. 

When it's turning over, have you checked for spark?

You seem pretty adamant that the noise is from the distributor, so what's under the cap, points or an electronic conversion?

What brand is the distributor?

You've also said that the engine isn't turning over when you hear the clicking, so it wouldn't be anything like the rotor hitting the terminals in the cap since nothing is turning.

I'd straighten out the shift cable adjustment first, then replace whatever you have under the cap along with the cap. That would be the points, condenser, rotor and cap or if electronic it would be the module, rotor and cap.

If there are points under there, have you tried cleaning and adjusting them?

PS ............you've e mailed me pictures before (your broken damper plate issue), so e mail whatever you want for this problem if you have questions on the distributor brand etc)  And if you don't still have the address it's keno439@gmail.com Wink


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-24-2022 at 11:35am
I’ll state what everyone is likely thinking… the clicking has gotta be the relay due to a low voltage condition…. Could be the battery, cables or dirty connections.

I suspect if the control isn’t in neutral when the trans is in neutral that he’s unable to pull the pin and introduce fuel while cranking. Gotta get it adjusted appropriately before doing any kind of troubleshooting on the no-start.


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-24-2022 at 1:46pm
Well, Reed sent me a couple of pictures and a short video of the engine cranking over.

Sounds like an engine that has no spark or no gas.

Told him to check for spark and try priming it with a little shot of gas down the carburetor being careful to watch for a backfire out the carburetor.

Like he said earlier and the video also showed, it turns over with the shifter in forward completing the circuit through the Neutral safety switch, the relay/solenoid isn't his issue

The distributor has a Prestolite electronic module in the original Prestolite clip down cap distributor.





Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-24-2022 at 2:26pm
You hear any of the described clicking?


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-24-2022 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

You hear any of the described clicking?

No but.............he says up above that it only "clicks" when the shifter is in neutral and he turns the key to Start  (maybe an electrical arcing noise?)and the starter has no power, but when he moves it to fwd, turns the key to Start and the misadjusted cable lets the NSS feed power to the sol/relay and the starter, it turns over making normal turning over noises. 

So I didn't hear the "click", maybe it's there but covered up by the noise of the starter and the rotating but not starting engine.

Kinda "weird"

I'd post the video but it might take me a year or so to figure out how Wink


Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: February-24-2022 at 3:32pm
Coil and distributor look to be in poor condition…from the outside anyway.  Love the fuel line.  

I would trust KENO’s nose and troubleshoot spark and fuel first.  2-3 tablespoons of gasoline down the old carby has worked well for me.  Be sure to replace the spark arrestor first.  I’m putting my money on spark problems.

JQ


-------------
Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited

Previous
2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow

Aqua skiing, ergo sum


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: March-15-2022 at 6:44am
Well, rumor has it that Reed has an engine that runs now, but it has to be in Forward to start it, so some cable adjustments are needed.

Here's some reading and a video that should help you out Reed

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26601&title=shift-cable-adjustment-pcm-123-and-morse" rel="nofollow - link  to cable adjustment thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KNzQxpAeE4" rel="nofollow - link  to video

PS.............what did you have to do to get the engine running?


Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: March-16-2022 at 10:41am
Couple shots down the carb is what gets her to fire off. Doesn’t run for long before quitting. 

-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: March-16-2022 at 12:52pm
It seems you have isolated a fuel-delivery problem…

JQ


-------------
Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited

Previous
2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow

Aqua skiing, ergo sum


Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: April-05-2022 at 9:36am
So, a fuel delivery problem. Where exactly do I start with that? The carby, pump, and filter have seen better days.  










-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: bwinn
Date Posted: April-05-2022 at 7:58pm
Fuel delivery. Is there fresh gas in the fuel tank? 5 gallons or so?

Ok, after that I see the carb bowls have bolts that hold them on. I’ve removed the bottom ones and drained out a mixture of fuel/water in boats that have sat for a season or more.

You could remove one bottom bolt. If there is no fuel in there leave the bolt out and crank it to see if the bowl is filling up. It would be recommended to disable the ignition before that to prevent an accidental fire of course.

If there’s no fuel still I would be looking at the the needle/seat for the carb or plumbing to the pump.

Some boats had fuel shut off valves and if it has one make sure it’s open.

Some had water separator filters also. Good idea to replace every season as they do collect water.

Does this help?
Burton



Posted By: bwinn
Date Posted: April-10-2022 at 1:22pm
Any updates? There’s no better feeling then getting a classic like this running again.


Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: April-10-2022 at 9:38pm
So I removed the bottom bolt of the back fuel bowl and cranked, but I wasn’t pulling gas from the tank because it is bad. I took the fuel line going from the separator to the pump and put it in a tank with fresh gas and cranked, I got little sputters but no start. No gas ended up coming out of the back bowl. I pulled the plumbing and used the air compressor to clean anything but the hoses seemed to be fine. 

-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: April-10-2022 at 10:00pm
Is this the needle/seat? 

-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-11-2022 at 6:54am

Here's a picture of a Holley inlet seat partially screwed in (orange arrow)

The yellow arrow is pointing at the plug you have circled in your picture. You don't want to mess with that plug unless it has an external leak.

You access the internally adjustable needle and seat by taking the float bowl off and removing the plastic baffle, the float and it's spring 



Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-11-2022 at 7:01am

Here's a slightly fuzzy picture of what it looks like if you take the bowl off and hold it upside down Wink

The white baffle slides out to access the needle and seat after the float and spring are removed.



Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-11-2022 at 7:07am
Since you have the fuel pump sucking from a portable tank and the carburetor is off, aim the fuel pump discharge into a container and crank the engine with the starter and see if gas is coming out the discharge line to at least give you some indication that the pump is working.

Use the container because it'll spray out the line and surprise you and make a mess too if you don't use the container Wink

Since the boat originally ran for you, I'd check the pump before tearing into the carburetor.

If you're gonna tear into the carburetor, do yourself a favor and get one of the many Holley carburetor tuning or rebuilding books that are on the market.

Here's a link to some examples

http://www.google.com/search?q=holley+carburetor+book&oq=holley+carburetor+book&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30l9.20394j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8" rel="nofollow - link

They all have their good and bad points, but the David Vizard book is probably one of the better ones


Posted By: cbr1000dude
Date Posted: April-11-2022 at 11:32am
So I read the whole post and still don’t know if the fuel pump works!
This would seem the most likely problem to be addressed first, since it fires up with gas down the carb.


Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: April-12-2022 at 7:27pm
Just tested the pump and got nothing, not a drop of gas. Cranked for around 10 seconds. Aren’t you able to run tests on these mechanical pumps with a pressure gauge? 

-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-13-2022 at 6:39am
Portable tank straight to the pump suction and nothing coming out the discharge is pretty much confirming the pump is no good.

You could be stubborn and crank it longer, with a piece of clear tubing on the suction line so you can see if any gas is moving at all.

If it doesn't pump, a pressure gauge won't do you any good.

You probably have a Carter pump. The Carter number is M60389, you can find them for a wide variety of prices on line

Or you could get in touch with Then and Now Automotive in Weymouth and get a rebuild kit or have them rebuild what you have now.

The newer ones aren't rebuildable, the older ones are. Their rebuild job will be more expensive, but seems to use better parts than the newer pumps

Send me pictures if you want to verify what you have for a pump Wink

Here's a link to Then and Now

http://www.then-now-auto.com/" rel="nofollow - link


Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: April-13-2022 at 9:58am
Was just about to make another reply regarding the fuel pump. I removed my duralast fuel filter that connects the hoses in the middle going from the pump to the carb. And I turned it over and fuel actually did come out, u can see the little amount of fuel in the little mason jar. Could it be as simple as the fuel filter? 




-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: cbr1000dude
Date Posted: April-13-2022 at 10:25am
That pump doesn’t seem to have the clear fuel line that returns to the carb, maybe it just doesn’t show in the photo, anyway, that line is a marine safety feature that shows fuel leaking past a cracked diaphragm in the pump.
Also, a metal line from the pump to carb is required for safety.
The term “death trap” comes to mind. A clogged fuel filter is the least of the problems imho.


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-13-2022 at 12:09pm

Reed    Your fuel pump is an AC dual diaphragm marine fuel pump, the green arrow points to the place where you can hook a hose to that would run up to the carburetor/flame arrestor to indicate a ruptured primary diaphragm. Somebody has a black hose hooked to it.
It's a lot easier to see fuel in that line if it's clear Wink

That line being clear vinyl is OK per the USCG regs and speaking of the USCG regs, rubber fuel line between the pump and the carburetor is perfectly acceptable as long as it has the right rating and the hose clamps are clamping the hose onto barbed fittings. The hose is rated USCG A1-15 or a later version is A1-10. You won't find it at your local car parts store.

Here are a couple of links you can read

http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/AssetManager/ABYC.1002.01.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/AssetManager/ABYC.1002.01.pdf

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title33-vol2/pdf/CFR-2011-title33-vol2-sec183-558.pdf" rel="nofollow - https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title33-vol2/pdf/CFR-2011-title33-vol2-sec183-558.pdf

CBR1000 dude should probably read them too, it's been gone over many times here on CCF.

Some people like rubber, some like metal, the Coast Guard just tells you what they approve.

And for your other question..............yes a plugged fuel filter could be your whole fuel delivery problem, but the stuff plugging it had to come from the someplace like a dirty gas tank.

More pictures of the engine would be good.




Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: April-13-2022 at 4:13pm
Thank you for that info regarding the pump and my fuel filter and fuel lines.. i will add some pictures of the boat

-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: cbr1000dude
Date Posted: April-13-2022 at 4:35pm
I defer to the greater knowledge of Keno. 
I've had 4 CCs and all had metal fuel lines, and thought it was standard. Routing of rubber fuel line so close to high heat sources and spinning belts, moveable dog house engine cover, also seems dangerous to me. Just my opinion of course.


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-13-2022 at 8:12pm
Here are some pictures from Reed.

I got 3 out of 4 right side up ..................not too bad Confused

I think all 79 Commander engines came with the AC pump and a rubber supply line from the pump to the carburetor as original equipment.

It may not have the USCG stamping on the hose, but being hose that's about 43 years old, I'd probably replace it........... just because.

The flame arrestor has the right fittings for the breather hose from the oil fill cap (big fitting) and the ruptured diaphragm indicator clear hose The carburetor also has a fitting for the fuel pump overflow hose and it looks like the black rubber hose mentioned earlier is hooked up there. Just pick one fitting to use and cap the other one. No real advantage of using one over the other.

I think I'd put the carburetor back on, new filter, hook up the fuel line, prime it with a little gas down the carb primary throats and see if it starts and runs, then do things like replace the hose and if necessary the fuel pump and/or a carburetor rebuild.

Let's cross our fingers and hope it runs and your fuel supply issue was the filter being plugged.

Then you could also change the fuel filter/water separator on the suction side of the pump to make sure that isn't a problem, 

And then the line from the tank to the filter/separator could probably also use replacement if it's original 43 years old, and the anti siphon valve on the gas tank could be checked too.

I guess you could call it a pretty original "survivor" Wink










Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: April-13-2022 at 11:12pm
I have my new impeller coming tomorrow so once I can run water thru her I’ll see if I can keep it running. Should I be worried about the rust towards the front of the intake manifold and down on the pulleys? The coil and distributor are extremely corroded and rusted as well. 

-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-14-2022 at 7:56am
I'd get it running, then worry about the rust after that. Wink

If the rusty coil is working, "then don't fix what ain't broke"

If you have ignition issues, a coil replacement might be in your future


Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: April-17-2022 at 11:23am



https://youtu.be/7vVgNDvxqrM" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/7vVgNDvxqrM  



-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: April-17-2022 at 12:46pm
Congratulations!

-------------


Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: April-21-2022 at 10:32pm
Questions regarding structure of the boat.. The stringers to my knowledge seem sound, when i first looked at the boat i checked the lags and no free spinning on all 8 bolts. Used a socket to tap for delam and disbond along stringers and nothing. No cracks of any sort on the fiberglass coating around the stringers. Just not sure about how they look towards the bow of the boat. Floors seemed warped..? they tend to dip in some spots. not too sure if that is due to wet foam or the floors just being rotted. Just one more note: lots of spider cracking along the hull of the boat and up by the chines, which makes me a little nervous and confuses me because i believe the structure of the boat is solid but isnt spider cracking in the gel from the fiberglass expanding because of heat
or am i incorrect?

-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: reed462
Date Posted: January-03-2023 at 3:04pm
so obviously i am aware now that the old girl needs to be completely rebuilt from the hull and up, something that is very inevitable with these bath tubs. i am in school for auto mechanics so the motor, trans, electrical is ez but i have little to no clue on where to start with the hull and stringers. i wanna be able to do it myself but i obviously want it done right so the boat will last the full 20 years or so. just have 0 experience with fiberglass and im not too sure if this is something i should take on if im not confident in said field. any advice from u brainiacs?

-------------
79 Tique


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-03-2023 at 6:56pm
Once upon a time you had zero experience with lots of things but did some learning along the way,......... we all did Wink

Here's a good thread to read in the link below that might help you decide if you want to tackle a stringer job.

I think they started out not knowing a lot about stringers fiberglassing etc. but did a heckuva job and it's well documented

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40614&PN=1&title=new-to-me-78-tique" rel="nofollow - link

Figure out how long you think the process will take and then multiply that by 3 or 4 and you'll probably be close



Print Page | Close Window