Print Page | Close Window

Trailer HUB FAILURE!

Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49970
Printed Date: March-19-2024 at 6:43am


Topic: Trailer HUB FAILURE!
Posted By: ultrarunner
Subject: Trailer HUB FAILURE!
Date Posted: July-03-2021 at 9:42pm
We’re halfway between Warrenton and Winchester, VA enroute home. Someone flagged me so we pulled over. Hub had failed, outer bearing gone. Was just able to pull into a parking spot just off 17 before the wheel came off. Must have had a brake dragging. Hard to say at this point. BoatUS locating a tow service. Clearly headed home without the boat:-(



Replies:
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 12:46am
Sorry to hear your news, makes for a long day.  Someone just last week posted they always travel with a set of wheel bearings, I guess I should put a set in my tow rig but I guess that means you would need a washer, nut , cotter pin,, grease and maybe a seal also.  Might save being stranded some day.  On the road these parts can be unobtainable.

Some kids were gathering to party where we park our trailer and car for multiple day ski trips.  Two trailers we know of lost a wheel driving home.  We think the kids got bored and loosened lug nuts.  Now we check lug nuts before driving home.


-------------


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 8:22am
Hubs all serviced before my trip. Glad it happened on the way home. We’ll leave it and hopefully to a shop today and get fixed next week. A complete spare hub all built up along with an axle only way to defend it with spares.


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 9:45am
Before your next excursion get yourself a temp gun- you will know within 10-20 miles if your getting the bearings too hot. HF ones work fine and are not very expensive.
I had a similar but not so a disastrous trip this spring. After 30 miles I looked out the mirror and saw smoke. Checked temps that one was at 195 the other 3 were less than 100. I was a block away from Harbor Freight so I pulled into their lot and pulled the hub. I always carry bearings and seals with that trailer and the Mustangs trailer. The Nautiques trailer with the Vaults I have not bothered but now thinking I should. Wasted 2 hours taking it apart and putting it back together finding nothing, but better doing it in HF's lot than on the Tamiami trail in the middle of nowhere. Backed off on the brake adjustment just in case it was dragging.  Within 20 miles temps still the same,deciding to press on since temps were not rising. After another 50, temps still up so I pumped some extra grease in and continued. After another 200 miles the temp had gone down to what the others were. Have no idea what the initial problem was but the smoke I had saw drawing my attention was from the Fluid Film I had coated the drums with to keep them from rusting as it sat in the carport all summer long!


-------------
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: 67 ski nat
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 9:49am
The older CC trailers have different harder to find bearing size compared to more modern. So I bought 2 sets and carry one
The grease, nut, cotter are easy to get at Orielly
Do not forget to carry a large socket to tap in race


Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 10:41am
Note to self:  Buy an extra set of bearings/races for trailer.  Get spare cotter pins.  Buy spare small grease gun and cartridges.  Buy cheap H.F. socket for race installation.  Put in toolbox for boat trips...

JQ


-------------
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited
2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow (for sale)
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow (sold)
Aqua skiing, ergo sum


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 12:37pm
I used to adjust the trailer brakes the same as drum brakes on a car, yep I’m old enough to have owned cars and trucks with drum brakes.  I found boat trailer brakes had to run adjusted much looser than car brakes.  Now I adjust them so they are close to the drum but the wheel still spins free with zero brake drag.  Last I apply a little pressure on the brake actuator so the brakes barely start to apply/drag and check both brakes to see if theyhave equal drag at that point, if one is tighter I’ll loosen it to match the other.  Takes a little time but it works and the hubs don’t get hot and both brakes apply equally.
Now to remind myself to get those spare parts.


-------------


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 12:42pm
Get a set of hub grease caps too- your bearing buddy is not going to fall off in an area close to a NAPA either, I loose one every big trip,does not matter what hub,what wheel/tire combo which trailer. I also carry a rubber hammer for those

-------------
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 1:11pm
I've always tried to understand why trailers have so many problems with wheel bearings. I can understand the smaller tired trailers where the RPM's are higher at the bearings but our trailers with 14" and 15" wheels seem to have issues too. You hardly ever see a car or truck on the side of the road without a wheel but I've seen plenty of trailers sitting there without a wheel. 

-------------
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 1:34pm
I know what your saying- I personally very rarely submerge my car wheels Wink  I have only changed two front wheel bearings one was only to prove a point to a transmission mechanic who said it was a problem rather than admit they made a mistake. The other was a 4wd hub assembly on a Jeep

-------------
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

I know what your saying- I personally very rarely submerge my car wheels Wink 

Gary,
It's not only boat trailers I'm thinking of. 


-------------
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 5:04pm
Ok, so, feet-dry back in SW CT. VA state police keeping an eye on the boat. Clearly, BOAT US 24 hr roadside has fine print.

With that said, I have two options.

Make calls tomorrow, or more likely Tuesday when things are open and have it hauled someplace locally for a repair, OR, find someone that can load it and haul it home for a repair.

I’m leaning to the former.

As far as repairs, conventional wisdom would dictate drums, hubs/bearings, brakes and axles on both sides....trailer is a Prestige that came with the boat in 1996.

I trailer a LOT. I’m not opposed to getting a new trailer as well....


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

I know what your saying- I personally very rarely submerge my car wheels Wink 

Gary,
It's not only boat trailers I'm thinking of. 

Maybe it's because nobody is sitting in those trailers to feel the bearing going to hell, things shaking all over the place and telling the driver to pull over


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 6:45pm
We dip our trailers in water many times each summer and then park them all winter, any water inside will start rusting parts.   If we went though the bearings every fall and parked the boat on clean dry grease every winter there would be no bearing failures but who does that?  I do inspect mine every single year and fix as necessary each spring when motivated to use the boat again.

I have lost bearing buddies in the past, the last 10+ years I started wiping a thin film of silicone around the bearing buddy surface that taps into the hub.  Have not lost one since.  Trailered one last year 500 miles over very tough roads just after service and they all stayed put.   Finished install at 9 pm and departed at 5 am with no issues.

Ultra runner I would borrow or rent a car trailer with a winch and go get your boat.  Who knows what will be stolen if it sits.  Take something to put the bad axle on while you drag it on the trailer.  Floor jack or dolly wheels would do.
I have a car trailer with a 16’ bed, it would be no trouble to load a trailer and boat and mine only has a hand winch.
I hauled my son’s Ford Excursion Diesel onto the trailer when it died, those are 7,500 pounds and we pulled it with the hand winch.
Your boat would be easy.


-------------


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 7:14pm
Thanks McD, I learned this evening my neighbor has a brother local to where my boat is and he’s a boater and knows a trailer guy. So likely it’ll get towed tomorrow. Couldn’t have happen at a worse time for me as I start a 7-day trip on Tuesday. But my rig should be in good hands until I can get down and grab it.


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 6:15am
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

 
I have a car trailer with a 16’ bed, it would be no trouble to load a trailer and boat and mine only has a hand winch.
I hauled my son’s Ford Excursion Diesel onto the trailer when it died, those are 7,500 pounds and we pulled it with the hand winch.
Your boat would be easy.

I think his boat trailer is a little too wide to just easily winch up on a car trailer that typically has a bed about 7 feet wide, unless you find a really W-I-D-E bed trailer Wink


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 8:04am
Yeah, I’m 8 feet tire edge to tire edge.


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 9:03am
So, at this point, I'm inclined to get it home like McD suggested. I've got it out on U-ship. No way I can get out of my trip this week, or I'd go grab it. If anyone knows of someone local to that area with a trailer that will haul it, shoot me a note. Boat is in a parking lot off Rt. 17, just outside Warrenton, VA. Thanks.


Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 9:07am
I think with most of us who trailer its not a matter of if it happens but WHEN! Exact same thing happened to me towing Kermit to Badin Lake mini a few years ago. Heading up I-85 in Greenville SC guy pulls up next to me tells me trailer is smoking. Pull into some discount clothing warehouse store off to the side of the building and start investigating. Not Good.. Owner sees me on Security Cam and walks out to check to see what's going on. Sees the mess and offers to help. Drove me to local Northern Tool where I got a hub, and tools to cut the race that got "welded" to the axle. Got all cleaned up put a new hub on his carriage and off I went. There are still great people n this world. Didn't know him from Adam but he helped me to No end. I always trailered with a trailer roadside repair kit but obviously wasnt prepared for this scenario. I've helped a few CCFans with trailer problems a couple times. Hopefully all will work out for you. Those of you that read this post. Learn from it. Be prepared and take a trailer hub with you and the tools to fix if you're stranded.

-------------
"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"


Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 9:54am
When this happens the bearing welds itself to the axle.  You guys putting together a kit should include a puller.  When it happened to me I had spare bearings etc.. but no puller.  I ended up using a small car jack to put pressure between the bearing and the back plate and kept hitting the bearing with a hammer until it came off.  I got lucky and was back on the road a few hours later.  Nothing like watching your trailer wheel pass you up and head off into the desert!

-------------
92 SN - Owned since 93
99 Pro Air
89 SN - Went to live on a lake in Texas
75 Donzi 16 - Sold in 93


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 10:18am

Hire one of these instead of Billy Joe Jim Bob and his second cousin putting a boat on a trailer on top of another trailer. What could possibly go wrong with that setup?

Plenty of these roll back car carriers are wide and long enough to handle your load safely and get it back home to CT or to someplace down there to repair it.

And they're insured for what they do Wink

And maybe your insurance covers the ride to wherever




Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 11:13am
Yep, been on the phone trying to locate one.


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 12:48pm
In your case one wheel is gone, that side would be supported on a dolly or floor jack.  Assuming single axle trailer?   A slide bed is best of course but it sounds like he has to go some distance to pick it up.  
My Nautique is parked right next to my car trailer so I did think before commenting.
If the trailer is a double axle you can strap the dead axle up and run home on three tires.


-------------


Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 12:50pm
Seems like I remember Tim B. Using a U-Haul Car Trailer to move a Tique while still on a trailer.  I do realize the Tique is likely a smaller boat than yours. You may want to check the dimension of a U Haul car hauler. Get a Come A long Jack to pull it on the trailer. 

-------------
1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens
2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S.
1968 Ski Nautique, Project.


Posted By: 67 ski nat
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 1:00pm
Feel bad for ya ultra, like losing your wallet feeling
Gonna be a run on pullers, mini grease guns, at harbor freight tomorrow


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by Donald80SN Donald80SN wrote:

Seems like I remember Tim B. Using a U-Haul Car Trailer to move a Tique while still on a trailer.  I do realize the Tique is likely a smaller boat than yours. You may want to check the dimension of a U Haul car hauler. Get a Come A long Jack to pull it on the trailer. 

That would be Timmy Benjamin Billy Bob and here are a couple of his adventures bringing a project home, not bringing a good boat home that could turn into a pile of junk somewhere along the way Wink

A little skinnier and smaller boat and trailer

Click on the link below for some pictures

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9783&title=shipping-ideas" rel="nofollow - link

And if you keep reading after the pictures, you'll see his comment to Zonour about whether a 98 SN would fit



Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 1:56pm
UPDATE...

Ok, so, I take my neighbor across the street skiing along with his kids;-). Told him my story last night at fireworks on his lawn....

His brother, a bank President, in VA, not far from my boat, bankrolls a facility in Louisa that can do the repair. Likely turned around by end of next week. Boat will be there in an hour or so....

Steady as she goes....


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 2:12pm
That is a good outcome.  Glad you are making it happen.  How far from home is the boat?
Mark


-------------


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 2:18pm
The U Haul trailer used to transport the Ski Tique has an open center section, that would make it hard to work with having the bad axle.  I think a solid platform, mine has a steel full deck or even some have a full wood deck would do the job easier but that is now for the next broken candidate to mull over.  If the boat is larger than a 196 a car trailer is too small for sure.

-------------


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

That is a good outcome.  Glad you are making it happen.  How far from home is the boat?
Mark


Yep, should all work out. Boat is about 400 miles away.


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 2:42pm
That is a very long distance to leave the boat behind, you are doing well to get this taken care of so quickly.  The pucker factor must be huge.

-------------


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by ultrarunner ultrarunner wrote:

UPDATE...

Ok, so, I take my neighbor across the street skiing along with his kids;-). Told him my story last night at fireworks on his lawn....

His brother, a bank President, in VA, not far from my boat, bankrolls a facility in Louisa that can do the repair. Likely turned around by end of next week. Boat will be there in an hour or so....

Steady as she goes....

So how'd the boat and trailer get hauled the 60 or so miles from Warrenton to Louisa?

It's been almost 4 hrs, it must be there

Ya can't just leave this episode of the story unfinished Wink


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by ultrarunner ultrarunner wrote:

UPDATE...

Ok, so, I take my neighbor across the street skiing along with his kids;-). Told him my story last night at fireworks on his lawn....

His brother, a bank President, in VA, not far from my boat, bankrolls a facility in Louisa that can do the repair. Likely turned around by end of next week. Boat will be there in an hour or so....

Steady as she goes....

So how'd the boat and trailer get hauled the 60 or so miles from Warrenton to Louisa?

It's been almost 4 hrs, it must be there

Ya can't just leave this episode of the story unfinished Wink

Ha Ken, good point...

So, BoatUS lined up Tommy's Towing, out of Culpepper, so they had some driving to get to the boat and then to Lake Ann. Insured and DOT'd, and they do heavy-duty stuff, so felt fine with them. They were sending a roll-off and were well briefed the wheel was off and to NOT leave it behind. Wink 

As of an hour ago, dispatch said they were just about to Louisa. I'm expecting a call shortly verifying delivery. 

I'll hook up with the shop on the phone tomorrow after they've inspected the trailer, and we'll come up with a plan of action....

At a minimum, new axle, hub, brakes and bearings on the right side. Possibly a new drum and heat shield?  I'll have them pull the left side apart and inspect. I'm guessing we'll do new brakes/actuator and a hub and whatever else needs attention on that side. Thoughts on bearing buddies? As you all know, I trailer a LOT, so don't mind spending the bucks to do it all right. 

Here's a post-fire pic after the smoke cleared and I dragged it to parking. The drum is still attached to the wheel. The brake shoes fell out when the wheel came off as I entered the parking lot, still smoking when I walked up to them... 









Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 6:26pm
You dun did it now Mark

With that one picture, you're bound to generate at least 5 or 6 opinions on whether that spindle will be able to be reused  Wink


Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

With that one pictured, you're bound to generate at least 5 or 6 opinions on whether that spindle will be able to be reused  Wink


Damn it Ken ....ya beat me to it! That spindle will buff out. Just polish it up a bit and she'll be good as new!

-------------
"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 7:17pm
Ha, no kidding guys. That spindle will wind up on the shelf with a few failed aircraft components I've collected over the years. A few of the latter left me stranded WAY further than a few hundred miles from home Cry
 


Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 10:20pm
Speedy Sleeve !!!!!!!!

-------------
1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens
2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S.
1968 Ski Nautique, Project.


Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-05-2021 at 11:04pm
cotter pin is still good, you should be good to go!,


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 3:24am
Wow, first time I have seen that failure.  Your nut, cotter pin and lock are in place?  The Seal is still in place but the bearing rollers are all gone?  The hub is gone the brakes are gone?

My guess, yep I will go right out on the limb and take the heat.   

Your hub fractured, I can't see any other way the wheel can be gone and leave all those parts on your axle spindle.   It looks like the inner bearing cones are still on your spindle.  There is a chance you will pull the nut and pull off both bearing cones to find the spindle looking just fine IF the dragging on the ground did not grind all the way through the lower half of the bearing cones and damage that axle spindle.  It very well might have but another positive, you don't show excessive heat on that spindle, no blueing.   Your brake drum is also the hub on trailer hubs with brakes and it is bolted to the wheel.  I am trying to wrap my mind around the failure fracturing the hub causing enough heat to light the grease on fire and still leaving the key axle components on the spindle looking pretty good.  I suspect the hub fractured, maybe a hard pot hole hit, when the hub fractured the bearings started falling apart letting the brake drag on the drum, the heat that lit the fire was the brake dragging on the drum before the total failure happened.  It does not even look like the seal burned up, it is still in place and seems to be in shape.  
Terrible failure on the road but it looks like you got off lucky on this one.
Can you share a picture of the brake drum?  That would be interesting to see.

If I am all wet on this one I will take the punishment standing up.


-------------


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 6:50am
Normally I stay out of these arguments, like the spindle discussion last week, but.................if there's punishment to be given out to MrMcD, this is just to juicy to resist 

So I will boldly go out on the same limb as Mark and say that unless the spindle got bent or blued from excess heat, you won't need a new spindle or axle.

Since the shop will be seeing it up close and personal, they should be able to give you a good answer.

I'll take my punishment right next to him butt bent over with plenty of lube.

Now should that lube be synthetic or natural Wink




Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 8:33am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Normally I stay out of these arguments,  butt................
I'll take my punishment right next to him butt bent over with plenty of lube.

Now should that lube be synthetic or natural Wink

As long as you're using the right oil with the proper amount of ZDDP you'll be okay! 


-------------
"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"


Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 8:42am
Hell of a failure. Thanks for capturing that pic. It will be very interesting to see what’s still bolted to the wheel. Make sure they send you a picture!


Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 9:04am
I will agree with Mark and Ken but will not line up to take the severe punishment that is being discussed!  

-------------
2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski


Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 10:15am
Looks the same as mine did.  Once I removed what was left of the bearing the spindle looked OK.  Installed new parts and got back on the road.  There is still, 10 years later, a nice gouge in the road on the way back from our lake.

-------------
92 SN - Owned since 93
99 Pro Air
89 SN - Went to live on a lake in Texas
75 Donzi 16 - Sold in 93


Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 11:19am
I agree with Desert and some of Keno. 
Keno - if you didn’t destroy the bottom of the spindle grinding it along the ground you should be good. Agreed

Bearings are two piece units once the cage separates. The outer piece of both the outside and inside bearing would have the clearance over the nut allowing the wheel to separate from the spindle leaving the inside race and the outer shell of the seal. 
Have seen it happen before.
A good cold chisel and hammer can take the inner race off without much of a problem, so hold up on the puller rampage at harbor freight and just get a good cold chisel.

Mark if you do get new spindles get these -  https://youtu.be/nzKZ7hjExtk" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/nzKZ7hjExtk


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 12:11pm
Well will ya' look at all this discussion I started Wink

We're all pretty much agreeing but none of you sissies are gonna take any "punishment" except me and MrMcD


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 1:14pm
I was thinking 30 lashes Ken, that is as far as I will go, your punishment is far more extreme.

If the wheel/hub came off over the nut washer and lock I would have to say the factory washer was too small or weak.   No way a wheel should be able to come off with a proper nut, lock cotter pin and washer in place.  I never saw that in automotive applications in 40 years.
If that is how it came off that is a factory defective design at the trailer manufacturer.   START A RECALL!!!
Good luck with that most trailer manufacturers don't seem to be around long.


-------------


Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 3:07pm
It’s not an automotive application and yes it can. If mark was with the trailer I would say go with it but since he’s miles/hours away he’s at the mercy of what the shop wants to sell/be liable for.
Ok start with the beating. Big smile


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 3:08pm
Curiosity made me blow up the photo of your failed wheel end.  When blown up it looks like there is a gap between the washer and the bearing cone of maybe 1/4"?  Those two should be touching.  The washer pushed in by the nut holds your bearing adjustment.  The cotter pin is still in place so the nut should not have moved.
With 1/4" of play that wheel would have had major wobble issues before the failure, you would have noticed tire movement/wobble.  
The cage around the bearing rollers is just there to hold them in place for assembly.  Once assembled the cage does nothing that affects bearing life.  Some modern bearings have cages made of plastic today to save money and because there is no load on them.  The bearing adjustment and the tracks in the bearing cone are what keeps the bearings in place while assembled.   This one is an odd failure to figure out.


-------------


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

I was thinking 30 lashes Ken, that is as far as I will go, your punishment is far more extreme.

I was talking about a colonoscopy, what ever did you guys think I meant Wink


Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

I was talking about a colonoscopy, what ever did you guys think I meant Wink

To late just had mine Angry I feel so violated but at the same time cleansed. Big smile


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 4:37pm
Gun Driver I hope you are much smarter than I was.  You know you go through the fasting and purging the night before that procedure so when it is done you are really, really hungry!   I left the Doctors office and hit a nice restaurant close by and had a large bacon cheeseburger with fries and a Chocolate shake.  It was fantastic for about 45 minutes and then it came rushing out the wrong end.   I guess it is in the fine print to introduce food slowly and eat Yogurt for crying out loud, I missed that advice.  Took 4-5 days for the intestines to calm down.   All the under 50 crowd on this forum have so much to look forward to!  Now back to current programming and the trailer hub.

-------------


Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 4:52pm
From bearings and spindles and washers to colonoscopies and purging and bacon cheeseburgers rushing out the wrong end ..... Thumbs Down Censored


-------------
'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-06-2021 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

From bearings and spindles and washers to colonoscopies and purging and bacon cheeseburgers rushing out the wrong end ..... Thumbs Down Censored

That was not right on my part to mention a colonoscopy............I meant to say a prostate biopsy but I seem to mix the 2 things up.

They both start out on the same entrance ramp to the "Hershey Highway" but obviously you take different exit ramps to get to where you're going with that camera and other hardware Wink


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-09-2021 at 7:38pm
Any update on the Trailer issue Mark?  I've been thinking about your issue and wondering what the mechanics found.   Have a great weekend.

-------------


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-09-2021 at 8:44pm
Hey gang, it was to go into the shop today. Should have the intel tomorrow.


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-13-2021 at 1:06pm
Mid-Atlantic got a bit jammed up last week, so they're going to take a look this week. They've also go the go-ahead to pull apart the left side and IRAN.


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-22-2021 at 12:40pm
Did Mid Atlantic fall asleep on your repair?

-------------


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-22-2021 at 12:51pm
YES!:-(

Short of wrench-turners combined with a couple of their rental boats needing repairs. They have committed to getting me an estimate this week and back together end of next. We’ll see... Oh all right


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-22-2021 at 1:16pm
Sorry, that stinks but we are in the busy season.
Have you thought of a road trip and doing the repair.  That is tough with it so far away.


-------------


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-27-2021 at 9:22am
Hey gang, it’s all apart and the tech says the spindle is good. So, we’re replacing both drums/hubs, brakes and their components, and of course all new bearings. Naturally doing both sides, the brakes never worked to begin with, and the backup bypass lever has never functioned properly....suck in ‘brake mode’, so we’ll sort that out as well, and put a controller on if needed.

I’ve asked for a pic of the failed drum and will post when I get it.

Ultra


Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: July-27-2021 at 11:00am
Dang, Mark. That took a while for them to get to it.  At least you can check that box on “Upgrade Trailer Brakes” from the bucket list. 

JQ


-------------
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited
2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow (for sale)
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow (sold)
Aqua skiing, ergo sum


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-27-2021 at 12:43pm
Good news you don’t need an axle.  My reverse lockout never worked properly either so I drilled a 3/8 hole through both sides and installed a lockout pin.   I have to push the boat uphill when backing to my garage.  Can’t do it with the trailer brake fighting me.   After using trailer brakes for 35 years I learned they need attention every year if you want them to work.
We’re they able to explain how the hub came off with the nut and washer in place?   Thanks for the update.
Mark M


-------------


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-27-2021 at 12:54pm
I'd say Gindriver explained it in this quote from earlier (yea, yea, I know I spelled it wrong, but it sounds pretty good) Wink

Plenty (or at least enough) clearance once the cage and all those rollers turn into little tiny pieces

Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

I agree with Desert and some of Keno. 
Keno - if you didn’t destroy the bottom of the spindle grinding it along the ground you should be good. Agreed

Bearings are two piece units once the cage separates. The outer piece of both the outside and inside bearing would have the clearance over the nut allowing the wheel to separate from the spindle leaving the inside race and the outer shell of the seal. 
Have seen it happen before.
A good cold chisel and hammer can take the inner race off without much of a problem, so hold up on the puller rampage at harbor freight and just get a good cold chisel.



Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: July-27-2021 at 2:48pm
Gotta love trailering.  This happened on our last trip.  My "fix" worked well enough to get it back to storage.




-------------
92 SN - Owned since 93
99 Pro Air
89 SN - Went to live on a lake in Texas
75 Donzi 16 - Sold in 93


Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: July-27-2021 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by desertskier desertskier wrote:

Gotta love trailering.  This happened on our last trip.  My "fix" worked well enough to get it back to storage.


That had to be a nice soft ride! Shocked


-------------
'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-27-2021 at 3:54pm
Hopefully they get you going soon then,has to feel like it's taking forever. David maybe it's softwood....

-------------
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-28-2021 at 6:31am
Originally posted by ultrarunner ultrarunner wrote:

Hey gang, it’s all apart and the tech says the spindle is good. So, we’re replacing both drums/hubs, brakes and their components, and of course all new bearings. Naturally doing both sides, the brakes never worked to begin with, and the backup bypass lever has never functioned properly....suck in ‘brake mode’, so we’ll sort that out as well, and put a controller on if needed.

I’ve asked for a pic of the failed drum and will post when I get it.

Ultra

I think you should check your hour meter and check that lifting/tubing ring on the back too.

It's probably been fixed for a couple of weeks now and the repair boys have been out enjoying some hi flyin' tubing escapades with the boat Wink

I think this is them in the link, with another customer's boat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwAIfZgabSE" rel="nofollow - link


Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-28-2021 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

 
I think you should check your hour meter and check that lifting/tubing ring on the back too.

It's probably been fixed for a couple of weeks now and the repair boys have been out enjoying some hi flyin' tubing escapades with the boat Wink

I think this is them in the link, with another customer's boat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwAIfZgabSE" rel="nofollow - link

I believe that was Pete on his proto-type preparing for the national tube jumping compitition. I believe he went on tour after the nationals promoting his new sport of Tube Flying.


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-28-2021 at 8:56pm
Gun Driver

That move in the link is the Pretty Exciting Tube Ejection..............since that kinda a mouthful, it's been nicknamed the "PETE"  

Technically, in tubing lingo, it's a flying front flip with a 180 to the nads.Wink

You have to watch it at 1/4 speed for the best view of the maneuver.


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-28-2021 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

 
I think you should check your hour meter and check that lifting/tubing ring on the back too.

It's probably been fixed for a couple of weeks now and the repair boys have been out enjoying some hi flyin' tubing escapades with the boat Wink

I think this is them in the link, with another customer's boat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwAIfZgabSE" rel="nofollow - link

I believe that was Pete on his proto-type preparing for the national tube jumping compitition. I believe he went on tour after the nationals promoting his new sport of Tube Flying.

You got it. I'll no doubt need an oil change by the time I get the girl home!


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-29-2021 at 12:40am
Well Ken, it looks like we don't have to take our 40 lashes after all.  The spindle is actually fine.

Have yet to hear if the hub is fractured.   If the bearing came apart without hub failure the only way I can see that happening is if the bearing was ultra loose.  The bearings run in a race.  They can't get out of that race unless there is excess clearance.   Mark's axle nut and washer are still in place but no idea how they were adjusted prior to failure but the wheel coming off can't happen with all the parts in place properly.
As mentioned Bearing cages do nothing other than keep them in place for transport and install.  Proper adjustment and the bearing race keeps them where they belong in operation.  If this was not true we would see this failure on all older cars and boat trailers often.  Heavy Duty Diesel Rigs, Class 8 trucks use the same system with larger parts, they don't fall apart if adjusted any where near properly.   


-------------


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-29-2021 at 9:09am
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

Well Ken, it looks like we don't have to take our 40 lashes after all.  The spindle is actually fine.

Have yet to hear if the hub is fractured.   If the bearing came apart without hub failure the only way I can see that happening is if the bearing was ultra loose.  The bearings run in a race.  They can't get out of that race unless there is excess clearance.   Mark's axle nut and washer are still in place but no idea how they were adjusted prior to failure but the wheel coming off can't happen with all the parts in place properly.
 

But when those rollers become unrecognizable little fragments or turn into metallic dust from  bad adjustment, lack of lubrication, overheating, etc you now have enough clearance (there aren't any bearings left to run in the race) and the hub and wheel depart the spindle together. Especially if you been driving with the slop for a while and that washer gets machined down a little by the rotating, wobbling hub

It's not like this is the first time it's happened to someone's trailer.

Maybe we're saying the same thing ie something started the whole process like mentioned above.

No 40 lashes, but I did "enjoy" the prostate biopsy Wink


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-29-2021 at 11:51am
I'm sure when we see the hub, it will show a complete fracture of the outer hub assembly which houses the bearings, as evidenced by what was left of the hub, still attached to the wheel.


Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: July-29-2021 at 11:58am
Ultra, I've contacted the National Transportation Safety Board, they are headed out to do a full investigation of the bearing and hub failure.  They have reports of a bunch of old mechanics arguing about the cause and want it solved.


-------------
'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-29-2021 at 12:01pm
PERFECT David! :-)


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-29-2021 at 1:35pm
I did not consider the off shore bearing issue, the quality of those bearings were terrible initially but have improved over time, today even the top brands are from overseas.  Maybe those rollers did shatter, good old USA Timken bearings did not do that.  

-------------


Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-29-2021 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

I did not consider the off shore bearing issue, the quality of those bearings were terrible initially but have improved over time, today even the top brands are from overseas.  Maybe those rollers did shatter, good old USA Timken bearings did not do that.  

Or way down south maybe. 
https://news.timken.com/2020-12-18-Timken-Expands-Manufacturing-Footprint-in-the-Americas" rel="nofollow - https://news.timken.com/2020-12-18-Timken-Expands-Manufacturing-Footprint-in-the-Americas


Posted By: 67 ski nat
Date Posted: July-29-2021 at 3:59pm
It is ok to say CHINA
Nothing good comes out of China


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-29-2021 at 5:48pm
My current trailer bearings from BCA said made in Romania.  They are still working but I miss the made in USA days.

-------------


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: August-02-2021 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

Ultra, I've contacted the National Transportation Safety Board, they are headed out to do a full investigation of the bearing and hub failure.  They have reports of a bunch of old mechanics arguing about the cause and want it solved.

NTSB reports hub intact....

Headed down next week to grab it.












Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-03-2021 at 6:03am
Originally posted by ultrarunner ultrarunner wrote:

 
NTSB reports hub intact....

Imagine that Wink


Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: August-04-2021 at 9:47pm
Where did all the little roller thingys go? 
Guess that’s how they clear the little washer and nut on the end when they depart the trailer. LOL



Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-05-2021 at 6:42am
Originally posted by ultrarunner ultrarunner wrote:

Hubs all serviced before my trip. 
.

The big white elephant whose been sitting quietly in the back of the room, taking all this in for over a month now, is wondering who serviced the hubs before the trip and what this service consisted of

You or a shop?

The same elephant says .........In the end, it's a relatively "not too hard" roadside fix that's taken at least 5 weeks out of your summer




Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: August-05-2021 at 8:49am
All on me Ken. All seemed good, no wobble, no binding. All greased. Entirely possible I lost a zerk, grease left the hub, and that was it. 

Given that we've essentially be in Chatham the last 3 weeks, with a couple of other boats, I haven't lost any sleep over it Wink


Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: August-05-2021 at 9:51am
Before a long trip like that I usually pull the wheels clean, inspect, and add new grease and seals. For everyday trips I just check for grease leaking from a bad seal, squirt a pump or two of grease, give the tire a wiggle check and hit the road. Knock on wood but using this system I’ve never lost a bearing on a trip.
  
Quote ” Entirely possible I lost a zerk, grease left the hub, and that was it.”

That’s one of the reasons why I don’t like those bearing buddy hubs. Years back I picked up a used snowmobile trailer with those installed.

During a trip I must have hit a pot hole in the road or something and one of the bearing buddy fell out, didn’t notice it till I was about to come home. Had to pull the wheel clean and re-grease and track down a cap for the hub. 

I bought two caps and threw away the other bearing buddy hub. Wont buy another trailer without posi-lube hubs. 



Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: August-05-2021 at 10:10am
I have traditional hubs. And that is what is going back on. :-)


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-05-2021 at 10:36am
Every stop I make I do a trailer walk around with my temp gauge in hand. I never launch when the wheels and hubs are still hot from travel. I have bearing buddies on some trailers,the vault system on another. Carry bearings,seals and caps for trips except for the trailer with the vaults.except for this springs trip with the one bearing running at 195,for which I never found the reason, the only problem I usually have is losing 1 bearing buddy a trip.

-------------
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-05-2021 at 10:57am
What’s a “bearing buddy hub”?

I’ve found bearing buddies to serve very well as high quality hub dustcaps. Can’t say I’ve ever used them to grease a bearing, doing so certainly wouldn’t replace the need for a proper repack, if needed.

I’ve had good luck with the Chinese bearings and haven’t had any bearing issues on one that I’ve repacked. Suspect there is something problematic about the method used to service them, considering the premature failure. I would consider seeking some advice on that front.


Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: August-05-2021 at 3:36pm
Sorry I meant cap not hub.

These things  https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Bearings-Races-Seals-Caps/Bearing-Buddy/BB2047.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Bearings-Races-Seals-Caps/Bearing-Buddy/BB2047.html  some like them, I didn’t have good luck with them.


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-10-2021 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by ultrarunner ultrarunner wrote:

 

Headed down next week to grab it.


Hey it's next week already

You on your way south to grab it?

Safe travels if you are Wink


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: August-10-2021 at 5:11pm
I called an audible. Found someone headed northbound so they’re gonna grab it. Saves me 2 days on the road. I’m away at training next week, so it’ll be here when i get home:-)


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: August-18-2021 at 9:01pm
Hey all you reptiles. Look what showed up in my driveway this morning! Very pretty Smile
I eject from FSI-ILG mañana por la tarde, so I'll be home by supper to prep it for the weekend. YAY!!!! 






Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-18-2021 at 9:04pm
It's about time, I was beginning to think it ended up in a chop shop in New Jersey or something and there'd be a bunch of parts showing up on EBAY  Wink


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: August-18-2021 at 9:22pm
No kidding. And you're totally right about NJ!


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-18-2021 at 9:38pm
What an adventure,what relief. Glad everyone is home!

-------------
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: August-19-2021 at 12:28pm
Looks intact, glad the issue is behind you.

-------------


Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: August-20-2021 at 10:40am
I didn’t know FSI offered a course on bearing maintenance LOL
Or a course on how to know when your wheel falls off. 


Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: August-20-2021 at 10:49am
It’s one of those enrichment-courses buried deep in the catalog! Embarrassed


Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: August-20-2021 at 12:22pm
Was the hub failure at V1 or V2 speed?

-------------
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited
2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow (for sale)
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow (sold)
Aqua skiing, ergo sum



Print Page | Close Window