Dunphy X-55 fine tuning
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: Off Topic
Forum Discription: Anything non-Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47726
Printed Date: April-19-2024 at 10:40am
Topic: Dunphy X-55 fine tuning
Posted By: Extratx
Subject: Dunphy X-55 fine tuning
Date Posted: July-11-2019 at 3:14pm
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Hi folks, I noticed there is are some Dunphy X-55 owners on this site, more than anywhere else, so I'm hoping I can get some info about this boat I've had for a couple years. I am currently getting about 43 mph top speed with a bit of porpoising, what feels like a plowing porpoise rather than a bow up porpoise. My quest is to get it up to the 50-55mph advertised top speed. It was restored about 15 years ago, and while is mostly stock running gear, it's hard to know what is, and is not original. Here are the specs. Prop 12 x 13 not original. Original prop was a Dyna Jet 12x15 cupped. Currently sourcing a new prop. Sent a request to michigan wheel. Thinking about the DJX 12x16 cupped. Drive angle 16 degrees. Strut part number is D-160 cast into the strut, so guessing this is original, but who knows. Engine appears to be in the original location based off the engine mounts. There is room to mount the engine lower, So with a new strut the drive angle could be reduced. There is only 1.5" of prop to hull clearance already at this steep angle, so that makes me think 16 degrees is original. Other issue I have is poor maneuvering control at idle. Rudder turns to an angle of just shy of 40 degrees either direction. I can move the cable to the inner hole on the rudder shaft and get probably 5 more degrees out of it. But the rudder seems maybe a bit small, and doesn't extend down as far as I would think it should. It also extends beyond the transom and so kicks up a bit of a spray during high speed turns and will even ventilate and lose some control in sharper high speed turns. Rudder has 2600-26D stamped into it. Thank you for any input, and I'll keep you posted on how things go fine tuning this boat. 
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Replies:
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-11-2019 at 4:18pm
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Hi Jon Very soon you will meet your new best friend Pete. I'm sure he'll have some input for you  In the meantime you can click on the link below and see what's on CCF dealing with x-55's https://www.google.com/search?q=correctcraftfan+dunphy&oq=correctcraftfan+dunphy&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60l3.10427j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: Extratx
Date Posted: July-11-2019 at 5:12pm
Thanks for the reply. My boat is far from original, but it does have the YH carbs and original trailer, so that's a plus. I have the original wheels and tires for the trailer as well, but they aren't made for Texas highway travel speeds.
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-11-2019 at 10:12pm
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Jon, What RPM is the 312 turning up? Unless the 12x13 has been re pitched, the 13 will over rev the engine. The original 12x15 will crank the engine up to about 4300 - 4400 and that's what you should be at. One note regarding the original 12x15 Michigan's is they were modified by grinding a concave relief in the hub. I still run the original and there is a noticeable difference from the stock 12x15 Michigan. Stick with the original geometry with engine/shaft angle as it's one of the contributing factors that got the hull patent and the clamed 55 MPH speed. Mine's been radar clocked (before GPS) at 54. The only one I know of that exceeded the 55 was our old ski club X. It came from the factory without any upholstery with the exception of the drivers seat. Don't expect 55 from yours with all the extra weight of the customization. Poor maneuvering at idle? You're driving an inboard!!  Do you know the history of the boat? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Extratx
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 12:52am
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Thanks for the reply Pete. I appreciate your input. Boat started in WA and moved to ID where I got it. There are 50 hours on the meter which appears to have been added during the resto. I found it around 2013. My guess is resto around early 2000’s. Regarding the RPM. Somewhere between 3000 and 4500 at WOT. I love old gauges. Except for temp which is way too accurate usually on most old stuff, and will drive you crazy. I’ll take an idiot gauge for temp any day. I’m installing a new tach where an aftermarket pitot tube Speedo is currently. I use my phone for speed. I’m having fun seeing what this beauty will do. I’ve driven plenty of inboards small to large, and this is definitely the worst. I’m more confident maneuvering a 50’ sailboat than this. Based on the restoration, which is top notch wood work but lacking mechanically, I question any of the geometry of the work. Not that I’ve found anything terribly out of sorts, but a few things have made me want to start from scratch rather than analyzing top down. It’s a lovely machine, and quite the hotrod of a ski boat. I look forward to perfecting it. If someone wouldn’t mind checking the casting numbers on their strut and rudder, I would be ever so appreciative. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 8:00am
Well there always has to be a best and a worst I suppose when you're comparing things. In your case what makes it the "definitely the worst" ? That's quite an RPM range at full throttle. Is that saying the tach is wacko and not accurate at all or you just haven't really noticed the RPM's at full throttle? |
Extratx wrote:Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 8:03am
A picture is worth a thousand words right here Pete
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Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 9:24am
uh oh  ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Extratx
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 9:41am
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It’s like the rudder isn’t in the prop wash at all. There is no scooting the rear of the boat left and right. Basically requires a few + mph to start turning. The tightest 180 I could manage to pull was about 20-30 ft radius with lots of fwd and reverse. Pretty much the same radius as if I go full rudder and idle it. Regarding the tach, it’s very bouncy. Should just say fast and slow, as that’s how accurate it is. I too want to see a picture of this prop! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 9:59am
I'll work on getting the picture ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 10:54am
I'll get down to the boathouse later today and see if I can get a better picture that shows the modification but the concave ground out area is on the hub forward and into the blade just below my thumb. My understanding is Dunphy had a local prop shop in Oshkosh Wi. modify their props. The area ground out is were under some conditions there's cavitation that the modification eliminates. I have seen evidence of it on a couple props where the hub is eroded in the area.  With the stock 12x15 Michigan, speed and RPM (by a couple hundred) is reduced. When I first noticed the reduced performance, I took both props to a prop shop thinking there was a slight difference in pitch between the two but, both matched up with the 15" pitch block. He was the person who told me Dunphy had their prop shop do the modification. Asking him if he would grind out the area, he said no feeling the grind would reduce the strength. The unmodified prop went on one year and it ended up throwing one of it's blades. Concerned with the modified prop doing the same, I had it X-rayed. Not knowing what a good or bad prop should look like, I sent the Xray to Michigan Wheel. Then I called and talked with Michigan's chief engineer asking him what he thought. His response was he didn't know because he had never seen an Xray of one of his props before!!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 11:46am
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Does this picture without the thumb show anything? It's from the same prop installation thread as your other picture 
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 11:56am
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Ken, The ground out area is behind the Photobucket banner. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Extratx
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 12:58pm
Here are some pictures of my current setup. Would love to know if my strut and rudder are original or replacement.   
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 1:44pm
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Pete's probably out swimming with his phone to get a picture of his prop but if you click on the link, you'll find some pictures of his strut http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12866&title=proper-prop-installation" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 3:22pm
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Your funny , Pete with a phone with a camera. He’s out trying to find film for his Polorid ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: MourningWood
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 3:44pm
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I've taken some pics and will post here. Your rudder may not be OEM. Where your measured 8.25" deep, original is 9.0", and your width of 5.75" s/b closer to 6.5". Confirming the 16 degree strut angle. ( D 160)  ------------- 1994 Ski Nautique "Riot" 1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun" 'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
Posted By: MourningWood
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 3:46pm
here are the 'notches' in the stock 12x15 prop... ------------- 1994 Ski Nautique "Riot" 1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun" 'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
Posted By: MourningWood
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 3:49pm
That is funny. I pictured him swimming with a pencil and some tracing paper... ------------- 1994 Ski Nautique "Riot" 1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun" 'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 3:53pm
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Ken, Gary is correct, my phone doesn't take pictures! BTW, no swimming was needed. Jon, A PO of you X must have thought he was a marine architect because your drive train sure isn't original. I measured as close as I could and I got between 10 and 12 degrees on the angle but, the keel is angled back there too making it hard to be exact. Note that the strut and rudder is different. Also with a 12" prop, there's only about 3/4" clearance to the hull.   Here's a better picture showing the prop where it's been ground out. I was wrong, the modification is on the aft end of the hub and blade. The area is were the shadow is.  You mentioned the nose being planted. That would be the result with your steeper angle of the prop and shaft. All I can say is be REAL careful driving at higher speeds. With a nose planting, hulls can do a quick and unexpected 360 and even flipping. How's your liability insurance? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Extratx
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 4:34pm
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Thanks for the photos guys! Definitely looks like my running gear is not original. Did you see any stamping on your strut? Nose isn't planting so much as it's not hovering at speed. Feels that the porpoising is more from the water pushing the nose up, rather than nose too high and gravity pulling it back down. On an I/O it would be more like too much down trim rather than too much up trim. Definitely not to the point of danger, or digging in. No speed loss when it comes down. Just an annoyance. I am going to track down my angle finder and measure the pictures. Should give an idea of the original shaft angle. Tonight I will photograph my engine mounts and maybe we can compare that as well. Regarding the rudder, that explains alot! Mine is too small. |
Posted By: Extratx
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 4:37pm
I have 1-1/2" of hull clearance with this 12" prop. I've read that a cupped prop will help lift the nose, so maybe 12x15 or 12x16 with a heavy cup will be what I need to avoid a complete driveline refit. |
Posted By: Extratx
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 4:40pm
| Also, I noticed the stock rudder has a good bit of surface in front of the shaft, where I have very little, which is definitely affecting my low speed maneuvering, as it isn't catching enough prop wash. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 5:14pm
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Jon, What was done to the hull? Has it been fiber glassed? The downfall of the X55 was their bottoms. They had purchassed a large quantity of Mahogany from the Phillipines. Unknown to them was the veneer used had a dormate fungas in it and when it got damp the rot began plus delamination. Dunphy replaced at there own expence lots of bottoms the first couple of years. Mine was not one of them they replaced so I ended up replacing the bottom ply back and inner and outer keels around 76. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: MourningWood
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 6:43pm
Yes, barely legible "D 160" on port side.  ------------- 1994 Ski Nautique "Riot" 1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun" 'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
Posted By: MourningWood
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 6:51pm
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Extratx, how about a couple photos of the motor mounts/mounting for comparison...? One of the characteristics of the X55 is it's level-riding hull at speed. See attached video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QalrPT0h9-k ------------- 1994 Ski Nautique "Riot" 1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun" 'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 6:54pm
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Jon, Taking another look at my strut angle, I'd say Brian's 16 degree measurement is correct. Go by his and not the angle I came up with. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 7:37pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QalrPT0h9-k%20" rel="nofollow - Here's a direct link ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Faceplant
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 11:18pm
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Wow !! Didn't know that they were that fast . ------------- Feels like I am hanging 10 but in reality - probably hanging 6. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-12-2019 at 11:37pm
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I have told this to Pete years ago when we were discussing his at Green Lake the year he brought it down. There was one on my chain back in roughly 67-69,and I believe he knows of it with later owners. Anyway these local "hooligans" used to beat on it constantly not going fast but making it porpoise. Probably wore out the cable working the throttle.... dont ever remember them skiing behind it ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Extratx
Date Posted: July-13-2019 at 12:51am
It appears to have been completely refinished at the time of the resto. All the wood is solid and zero fiberglass. Nice and straight too, no bow or bubble to the bottom. |
Posted By: Extratx
Date Posted: July-13-2019 at 12:55am
This makes me happy. At least I’m not chasing after a geometry change. Rudder as prop yes, but moving the motor, new strut, new shaft was starting to sound like a lot of extra work! My strut is stamped exactly the same. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-13-2019 at 6:39am
This is not the modification Dunphy was doing to the props. This notch is a stress relief common on many props. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-13-2019 at 8:31am
So Pete There's no other way to say it other than that picture is terrible at best when it comes to showing whatever you're trying to show as a concave ground out area I see a lot of glare, is that what you're calling the shadow.? Maybe another picture with a pencil or some kind of pointer pointing at the ground out area would be helpful |
Posted By: Extratx
Date Posted: July-13-2019 at 1:59pm
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Thanks again for everyone's help. It appears I have the correct strut, and so therefore my drive angle is correct. I just need to replace the rudder and prop and I'll be operating like she was meant to run. Pete, Best way to get all those bugs off your boat is to get it in the water! Thanks for taking the time to take those pictures for me. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-13-2019 at 2:10pm
Being from Texas you might be unaware of how cold it actually got in upper Wisconsin last winter. Normally the ice is not even out yet,Pete usually gets all 3 boats out for the day around August 3,tucks them away again for the year on August 4th. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: July-13-2019 at 2:13pm
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poor pete......living in the frozen tundra and having to take all the gruff for it! ------------- 2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski |
Posted By: MourningWood
Date Posted: July-14-2019 at 7:05pm
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btw, I think your boat looks fantastic. Seldom see the detailed wood deck (which I think was an option) as most are vinyl-covered. Original or otherwise, looks awesome! ------------- 1994 Ski Nautique "Riot" 1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun" 'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-14-2019 at 7:15pm
Brian, All the X's had vinyl decks. No option for wood. The early ones had solid turquoise vinyl, then turquoise down the middle with white on the sides (like mine), then some opposite and even solid white. The same goes for the skins white and turquoise or all turquoise. Mine skins are solid turquoise. What combination is yours? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: MourningWood
Date Posted: July-14-2019 at 7:41pm
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I bought this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXGG8LIpSUc Bought directly from owner in Reno, NV. Curious about the CF numbers, I backtracked ownership. Coupled with finding/contacting family members of our childhood neighbors (and Dunphy owners), I confirmed that it is in fact the very boat I learned to ski behind at Lake Berryessa when I was 11. ------------- 1994 Ski Nautique "Riot" 1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun" 'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-14-2019 at 7:49pm
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Brian, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXGG8LIpSUc" rel="nofollow - Very nice  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: MourningWood
Date Posted: July-14-2019 at 8:25pm
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Thanks. I've put a lot into it since purchase: Rebuilt engine (mostly to re-seal it) Had new keel, stringers and bottom done Sourced correct deck vents Overhauled trailer Lot's of miscellany...still looking for a set of side emblems, or a set to borrow and scan (a friend owns an automotive emblem company in Burbank, Ca and can make any emblem.) Oh, and these pesky leaking YH's... ------------- 1994 Ski Nautique "Riot" 1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun" 'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-14-2019 at 8:36pm
I wasn't going to say anything but hearing the PO had glassed the bottom sure worried me. Glad the bottom was repaired the correct way.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: MourningWood
Date Posted: July-16-2019 at 2:00pm
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Extratx, If you haven't purchased a new prop yet, I'll gladly send you my spare 12x15 to try... ------------- 1994 Ski Nautique "Riot" 1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun" 'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
Posted By: skimoore64
Date Posted: June-14-2021 at 3:59pm
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I owned a 1964 X-55 Dunphy for a long time - blew the engine and sold in 1996 - before that is was a great boat - I had two props a 13 x 13, and the 12 x 15, which was the better of the two props - quicker out of the hole, and higher rpm and speed - I beleive the 12 x 15 was the prop that they put on at the factory - My Boat was called " Talk About Run" which it did! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-14-2021 at 4:16pm
Gary, I was going to post a new in the off topic on the same subject but then I just spotted this. FYI, yup, today the ice was finally gone from the boat house slip so I dropped the X in and got her out. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-14-2021 at 4:21pm
Stu, Sorry to hear about the engine problem. What blew on it? Do you know if it was ever rebuilt? Yes, the 12x15's came on all of the X's. I'm surprised you ran a 13" since the prop to hull clearance would have been less than 1/2". That would have caused major hull rash. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Extratx
Date Posted: June-14-2021 at 5:49pm
| Too funny this popped up today. Got the X-55 out on the water for the first time since 2019 yesterday. Got plenty of comments about the old bird from all sorts. Funny I’ve never had so many volunteer dock hands until this boat. She ran strong, and didn’t sink. Lake was rough but still saw 48mph on the gps. Chasing that 55. Maybe I’ll get there this year. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-15-2021 at 5:57am
Let's hope you didn't have to paddle home again this year
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Posted By: skimoore64
Date Posted: June-15-2021 at 8:38am
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the water pump went out while out skiing, did not notice it and motor froze up. Waited a while to see if it would unfreeze, and when i tried to start it the starter turned over, but it broke the gear drive on the cam shaft - ugly. As for the 13 x 13 prop, it might of been close to the hull, but never seemed to be an issue - the 12 x 15 ran much better and faster for the sure - Those Carter carbs were fun and easy to work on, very unique application with the H-intake manifold. I do miss the boat in general, but not all the tinkering it took to keep it looking good and running.
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Posted By: MourningWood
Date Posted: June-15-2021 at 10:12am
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Hate to add to the Dunphy bandwidth here on this site...but there isn't anywhere else for us idiots...I mean X-55 owners to go. Extratx..great to get the old girl out. Thanks again for the (well documented here) carburetor work in 2019. That and a fuel pressure regulator set at 3.5# pressure, and she starts and runs like a champ. (even Pete put one on his X...shhhhh) Got an honest 50 mph. Yes, the prop is the key. My long-delayed (CoViD) side emblem project is almost finished and they are near-perfect re-pops of the originals. I also sourced marine vinyl with the correct 1" heat pleated seams. What an odyssey!! Will re-upholster over winter. Another deviation from stock....the motor box. The original wood one is just too dang heavy to easily lift completely out of the way, so I made an exact copy from Coosa board. Ahhh.....light. Also Coosa driver's seat bulkhead and floorboards. Pretty cool old boats! ------------- 1994 Ski Nautique "Riot" 1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun" 'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
Posted By: h2oproofer
Date Posted: July-16-2022 at 11:02pm
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Did u finish emblems I am in need of set for x55 as well? |
Posted By: MourningWood
Date Posted: August-02-2022 at 12:33pm
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@h20proofer MourningWood has sent you a couple Private Messages...the answer lies within...
------------- 1994 Ski Nautique "Riot" 1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun" 'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |