Invertaflow muffler question
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35272
Printed Date: April-29-2024 at 12:03pm
Topic: Invertaflow muffler question
Posted By: JPASS
Subject: Invertaflow muffler question
Date Posted: January-13-2015 at 11:01am
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So I have to repair a few leaks in my invertaflow muffler. I have a question about a noise I am hearing when I move the muffler around. It sounds as if there is something inside that is moving. It doesn't sound like its moving around (loose) inside the muffler, but instead sounds like some sort of hinged baffle or something. Is there some sort of hinged baffle inside or do I need to cut the end off to see what's doing? ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-13-2015 at 11:11am
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JP, There's no hinged baffle. It sounds like a baffle is loose and still attached on one side creating the hinge effect. There are a couple great threads on the invertiflow repair. Take a look and it will give you a better idea of whats inside. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: dwouncmd
Date Posted: January-13-2015 at 10:25pm
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I took mine apart and the banging was an extension of the outflow pipe that was no longer attached. The water has to fill the muffler to the level of the outlet (kind of like a bathtub overflow drain) before it can drain out, the exhaust has to bubble through the water. I glassed the extension back on the outflow, then fixed the leaks. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6535&sort=&pagenum=2" rel="nofollow - 89 SN <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6567&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow">7 |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: January-19-2015 at 10:41am
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So I have everything cut open and noticed the following: Both outside caps of the muffler had the glass delaminated from the structure below them. The rattling I hear is this inner sleeve sliding up and down below the top hat looking thing on the top of the muffler. Is this supposed to slide up and down? I believe everything inside appears to be OK no?    ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: January-19-2015 at 10:52am
| How did you know you needed to make repairs? Did you notice something when you were doing riser gaskets? I'm trying to get an idea of what to look for. |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: January-19-2015 at 1:53pm
I noticed dry water streaks coming from both end caps and from the exiting downtube. The glass ends of the cap were soft to the touch. When I cut into it it appears the glass on the end caps came delaminated from the structure beneath it. That sliding baffle in the above pic is what I was asking about. Mine currently slides up and down inside that tube that encases it. I heard it rattling around as I was working on it. I have no idea if it's supposed to be in there loose or what. Just want to confirm it's function before I glass it back together. ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Orlando76 wrote:Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-19-2015 at 2:16pm
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Was the Invertiflow made by CC or is it an aftermarket? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-19-2015 at 2:22pm
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Aftermarket, by Vernay, who was purchased by Centek. http://www.centekindustries.com/aboutus.html" rel="nofollow - Some confusing, poorly written Centek history, including a bit on the Invertaflow. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-19-2015 at 3:21pm
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Not mentioned in the above is that Centex also bought out Marine Muffler Corp found in many boats ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-19-2015 at 3:40pm
 ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-19-2015 at 4:17pm
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lol ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-19-2015 at 5:01pm
Hey I resemble that remark ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: January-19-2015 at 6:26pm
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Soooooo no thoughts on the moving piece in the exhaust? ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-19-2015 at 6:43pm
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I don't believe any fiberglass should be free to move around inside a muffler. ------------- |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 8:35am
I guess I'm just not seeing how to reattach this baffle piece. It doesn't appear to be broken free as there's no signs of broken or fresh glass on the part I can see. It almost appears as if it's meant to float up and down that tube it resides in. At this point I think I'm going to leave it as the exhaust was working fine aside from the small leaks. ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: dwouncmd
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 8:59am
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I was annoyed by the clunking around, and I had recurrent leaks the PO has done a very poor job of repairing, so I ended up taking the whole thing apart. If I recall, it appeared to me that the inner piece was glassed in from the outside, and basically, it it had fallen apart. I took the outer single exhaust pipe off (the glass was delaminating so it pealed away pretty easily freeing the outer pipe). I cleaned everything up, fitted the inner pipe back into the outer pipe with epoxy on the inside of the outer pipe, then used glass and epoxy on the outside (the assembly was a slightly angled, and I think that is one of the reasons there are two pieces of pipe). I then put the rejoined piece back into the muffler and glassed the whole assembly in. I got the angles right so it all fit the way it was supposed to. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6535&sort=&pagenum=2" rel="nofollow - 89 SN <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6567&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow">7 |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 10:47am
This is the help I was looking for. Thanks so much. So where did you cut the exit pipe? Did you cut it where it meets the muffler body or did you cut it a few inches down from the top? I have a small crack about 4-5" below where the exit pipe meets the body of the muffler. I can easily cut this all the way off and re-attach the floating pipe if you think I will be able to access it. Thanks again for your help. Any other tips would be greatly appreciated. ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 12:56pm
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There seems to be sufficient reasoning to ditch the invertaflow and install downtubes and a Y. Seems to me there would even be room for an inline 4" muffler after the Y. ------------- |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 1:37pm
I have everything I need to repair the muffler. Don't feel like dropping a few more hundies on new hoses and a Y pipe. ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Air206
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 3:12pm
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I have an intact invertaflo at Zach's place if interested....... Somewhere around $100 or so plus shipping. (Maybe some "hoser" is passing through INDY to FLA for SJRR.............) ------------- https://tinyurl.com/y6t5e3bu" rel="nofollow - 04 Air206 http://tinyurl.com/9urzgls" rel="nofollow - 91 Barefoot 78 SkiTiq |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 3:32pm
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Considering how many people have problems with the Invertiflo's, I certainly can say their construction is pathetic. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 4:52pm
Geez Pete, there's always room for improvement but these things are about 20 years old.  Not a terrible track record really.
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Posted By: Air206
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 5:01pm
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Alan, Pete was being kind. If really disappointed he would say "Hack Job".... pathetic ain't nothin.....  ------------- https://tinyurl.com/y6t5e3bu" rel="nofollow - 04 Air206 http://tinyurl.com/9urzgls" rel="nofollow - 91 Barefoot 78 SkiTiq |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 6:09pm
Alan, I was basing my comment on the construction and not the age. The thin walls and little or no reinforcement on corners or joints. The glass hulls are past 20 and they are still good. BTW, I'm past 20 and slowing down but not falling apart!   ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 6:46pm
You have your engineering blinders on again. I'm just saying how many 1000's of these things did CC put in their boats in the 90's? Of course there are going to be some failures but when the majority are still in service after 20 years and 1000-2000 hours of use that doesn't seem to deserve the "pathetic" grade. YES anything can be scrutinized after 20 years of use and be redesigned to last longer/perform better but that doesn't make the first edition a failure. |
Posted By: dwouncmd
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 8:31pm
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I didn't cut mine. The larger outside exhaust pipe is stuck in through a hole in the side of the main muffler, then glassed in. I worked my way around the glassed-in joint, delaminating the joint one layer at a time until the pipe was free. The problem I see with cutting it is that you would lose the extra length that projects into the muffler and allows connection to the smaller inner pipe and the glassed in joint to the muffler. One caveat to replacing the muffler with an unknown model invertaflow, they can be slightly different in terms of connection spacing, pipe size and angle to manifold, as well as lateral position and angle of the down pipe. They are not universal (I have one donated to me that does not fit in my boat, which I am hoping to donate in turn to someone at a reunion one day). The y pipe conversion is an option, but repairing the one you have is probably a whole lot less expensive, and as a bonus you get to figure how it is put together and how it works. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6535&sort=&pagenum=2" rel="nofollow - 89 SN <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6567&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow">7 |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 9:30pm
I'm not sure I follow? Here's a video of whats going on in there. It almost looks as if I should slide the loose pipe up into that weird chamber and apply some epoxy to the end and then let it seat itself and call it a day. I don't see an easy way to fix this floating pipe. ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 9:43pm
Alan, I stand corrected. It's easy to criticize when I see many failures without thinking the complete situation through and I apologize for that. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: dwouncmd
Date Posted: January-20-2015 at 10:27pm
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I believe the small floating pipe seats down into the down pipe. I think the chamber above is an outer baffle for the exhaust (the exhaust has to flow through the water and into up into the chamber; when the smaller pipe was seated in the down pipe the water level must be as deep as the smaller pipe protrudes up into the baffle, the water and exhaust have to flow up into the chamber and out the smaller pipe into the down pipe). I don't think mine ever had that chamber, just the smaller pipe seated in the down pipe. My 89 was the first year for invertaflow; I think your muffler is a slightly newer design. I think you could just expoy the smaller pipe back into the down pipe, but looks like it might be tough in the small space you have to work in. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6535&sort=&pagenum=2" rel="nofollow - 89 SN <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6567&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow">7 |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: January-21-2015 at 8:12am
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My understanding of how this works is this: That floating pipe actually acts like an elevated spillway in that the exhaust doesn't start dumping water until the height of the water in the muffler reaches the top of the loose pipe. Then the water will then flow out the exhaust. I'm assuming this also helps to create a certain amount of back pressure? Would not having this spillway effect anything in regards to the way the motor runs or performs? Wonder if it lead to any of the leaks due to an improper water level in the exhaust? Or maybe it's just too early and I'm talking outta my a$$ ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: January-21-2015 at 9:16am
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Taking the stand pipe out would just turn the muffler into a straight Y pipe. Lower flow restriction & louder exhaust sound would be the result. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: dwouncmd
Date Posted: January-21-2015 at 7:08pm
I think that is exactly how it works.
Probably. Not sure. I think the leaks occur as the thing falls apart. It is mostly full of water all the time. Maybe freezing in the winter time leads to cracks, leaks and the small pipe coming unglued? Unless you run antifreeze through until it comes out the exhaust, the water left in would freeze. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6535&sort=&pagenum=2" rel="nofollow - 89 SN <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6567&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow">7 |
Posted By: dwouncmd
Date Posted: January-21-2015 at 7:08pm
That seems right to me... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6535&sort=&pagenum=2" rel="nofollow - 89 SN <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6567&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow">7 |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: January-21-2015 at 8:42pm
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Freezing was never an issue as this boat was in central Florida it's entire life. Thanks again for all the help. Much appreciated. ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: January-21-2015 at 9:05pm
I don't think it'll be louder. The water level in the tank is what's doing the muffling. I seem to remember somebody else here that completely removed all the baffles when they blew out the invertaflow and repaired it. There wasn't any noticeable difference in the sound. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: February-08-2015 at 1:19pm
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I got the spillway pipe glued back in and I've used about 2-3 layers of 6oz mat to seal up the sides. Is this enough glass or do I need to put down more. Seems pretty solid to me, but I have no idea how much pressure is in the muffler while the motor is running. ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-08-2015 at 2:01pm
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JP, I'd be surprised if the exhaust system sees more than 2 to 3 PSI. I thinks your repair is fine. The system is pretty open and doesn't back up much head of water. It takes 27" of water column to create 1 PSI. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: February-08-2015 at 2:44pm
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Thanks Pete. I guess I'll find out soon enough. just need to grind down some rough spots and paint her up. ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-08-2015 at 3:11pm
Well that's not good,I have been using the pour method,can anyone verify that there is any water left in the muffler? You would think that there would be some sort of drain or reference to this in the owners manual. Maybe a call to the muffler manufactor is in order? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-08-2015 at 5:10pm
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I just emailed Centex about the Invertaflo holding water,will let everyone know what they say. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: February-08-2015 at 7:18pm
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If freeze expansion was a problem, wouldn't all of us northerners with this muffler have failures by now? Mine seems to be fine (knock on wood). ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: February-08-2015 at 7:21pm
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I cant imagine it doesnt hold a bit of water but it would have plenty of room to expand and gives a bit more than cast. When is the last time you saw water in an open plastic bucket cause a problem when it froze? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: dwouncmd
Date Posted: February-08-2015 at 8:06pm
I just wonder if the freeze/thaw expansion cycle has anything to do with the cracks, leaks, and particularly the inner pipe working loose. I think there is plenty of room above the waterline for expansion, but I bet the water in the muffler freezes solid. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6535&sort=&pagenum=2" rel="nofollow - 89 SN <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6567&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow">7 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-08-2015 at 8:29pm
Good analogy Joe but the only way I can test right now is to put some water in an ice cube tray ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: February-08-2015 at 9:45pm
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Our boat has been a Florida boat it's entire life. freezing had nothing to do with our leaks. ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: February-08-2015 at 9:49pm
| I would think if it didn't hold water, then when you crank it on the trailer for a slight second it'd be louder until it filled up as the water does a good part of the muffling?? |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-09-2015 at 4:32pm
Mine is definitely louder when it first starts even at the dock. Here is the responce I recieved this morning--- Good morning Gary, You are correct, by design, we have always included a drain hole in the outlet pipe of the muffler in order to drain water when the engine shuts down. However, a very small amount of water will remain inside of the muffler. This small amount of water will not pose a problem if it were to freeze. If the muffler was full of water, then you would need to worry about getting antifreeze into the muffler. We also include drain screws in the mufflers to drain water as well. Let me know if you have any other questions. Regards, Bert Browning Centek Industries, Inc. Manager, Product Design & Engineering Mechanical Engineer Phone: 1-229-228-7653 Mobile: 1-229-224-5653 Fax: 1-229-228-1270 Email: browning@centekindustries.com SKYPE: bertbrowning ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: dwouncmd
Date Posted: February-09-2015 at 4:53pm
I don't have a drain hole on the outside and did not see evidence of one on the inside pipe when it was apart (I probably just missed it; now it is surely glassed over) ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6535&sort=&pagenum=2" rel="nofollow - 89 SN <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6567&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow">7 |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: February-09-2015 at 5:37pm
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I have a small screw on the starboard side of the the muffler body about an inch up from the bottom edge. It's currently glassed over. Haven't decided if I'm going to drill it out again. I did not see any other drains on the muffler. ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-09-2015 at 5:56pm
| Bert said there was a drain hole that would allow the water to drain out after shutdown. He didn't say it was an external drain... I would assume it to be internal since that would allow draining to happen naturally after every shutdown. |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: February-09-2015 at 6:39pm
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I do recall seeing a small hole near the bottom of the spillway insert under the hat near the base of the muffler housing. Maybe this is what he was referring. I could see how this would allow water to exit the exhaust naturally, albeit slowly, at levels below the top of the spillway pipe. I went back a page and noticed the video I posted has the hole I'm referring to right there.  ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |