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vibrations

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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: Common Questions
Forum Discription: Visit here first for common questions regarding your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27010
Printed Date: May-31-2024 at 7:33am


Topic: vibrations
Posted By: teelta
Subject: vibrations
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 10:52pm
I have an 89 2001 Ski Nautique. It shakes/vibrates occasionally when I put it in reverse. It also does it when I first put it in gear going forward - engine is definitely not warmed up yet when it happens. It does it a couple of times at first going forward then is smooth for the rest of the outing. But in reverse it happens periodically throughout the outing.   I do have some nicks on my prop but I would think it would cause vibrations all the time if that was causing it.



Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 10:58pm
How many hours and has the damper ever be changed?

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Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 12:36am
Is the prop tight on the shaft? Mine was loose & let me know it in reverse!

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Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 1:40am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

How many hours and has the damper ever be changed?


I think around 1000. I just bought the boat about a month ago so I don't know if the damper has been changed.


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 1:43am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

How many hours and has the damper ever be changed?


I can tell someone has been inside the tranny before - maybe during engine swap/rebuild but don't know anything else about it.


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 8:32am
I like Chris's idea. Check the prop to see if it's on it's taper. If loose, then I sure would pull it an go through the lapping procedure.

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Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 11:51am
what is engine speed when you first engage fwd or reverse?? if it's pretty low (<500 RPM) that can cause some vibration.

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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

I like Chris's idea. Check the prop to see if it's on it's taper. If loose, then I sure would pull it an go through the lapping procedure.


The prop is tight last time I checked it but I will check it again once I get home. There is this 1/64-1/32 wiggle room in the shaft in the back brace (don't know the name of it). I'm guessing that is pretty normal.

Here's my prop - it is hard to see the knicks on it. This blade is the worst.


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by MI-nick MI-nick wrote:

what is engine speed when you first engage fwd or reverse?? if it's pretty low (<500 RPM) that can cause some vibration.


Engine speed is usually pretty low when it vibrates but not always. Not sure on the RPMs though. I'll pay attention to that next time I go out.


Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 2:39pm
you may just need a tune up/idle adjustment.

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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...


Posted By: mdvalant
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 3:16pm
That prop needs to GO! Can't be good for the drivetrain running that thing can it?

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Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by mdvalant mdvalant wrote:

That prop needs to GO! Can't be good for the drivetrain running that thing can it?


Yea the prop is beat up a little. Not sure I can afford a new one. I wonder if I can work on it myself. File it down and smooth it out. How much does it usually cost to have one repaired? I wonder if it got beat up by PO by driving it on the trailer. The prop will hit the support or guard of the trailer if you spin the prop by hand. I noticed that and so I float it on the trailer.


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 4:01pm
You have a bad cutlas bearing in the strut if you have the 1/64" to 1/32" wiggle. With the bad prop, I'm sure you are getting shaft vibration.

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Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 4:20pm
You have to take the rudder off and take the shaft out to change that right? I've read some posts on how to do that but still don't have a good picture of how it is done. Step by step instructions and some pictures or drawings would help. Sorry...I'm really new to inboards.

What else should be changed while the shaft is out? And what else should I consider in the process (i.e., upgrades, etc.)

Can anybody give me an estimate on prop repair? Need to know ballpark so I don't want to gouged by someone.


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 4:32pm
Shaft out, yes. Rudder out, no.

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Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 7:12pm
I got an estimate of $125 to repair prop with a 3-4 day turn around. Is that reasonable?


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by teelta teelta wrote:

I got an estimate of $125 to repair prop with a 3-4 day turn around. Is that reasonable?

Yes that sounds like the going price. Typically they will want to inspect the prop and confirm the price. If the damage is real bad but still reparable, then the cost may go up.

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Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 7:33pm
OK thanks...

I've read some posts on how to get the shaft out but still don't have a good picture of how it is done. Step by step instructions and some pictures or drawings would help. Sorry...I'm really new to inboards.

What else should be changed while the shaft is out? And what else should I consider in the process (i.e., upgrades, etc.)?


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-19-2012 at 9:57pm
I got an estimate on replacing cutlass bearing. Mechanic said he would take off the strut rather than take out the shaft. That sounds a little easier to me as long as the strut gets lined back up right. Is this an acceptable way to replace the cutlass bearing? or just a lazy mechanic? :) How hard is it to get the strut lined back up?


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-19-2012 at 9:58pm
I got an estimate on replacing cutlass bearing. Mechanic said he would take off the strut rather than take out the shaft. That sounds a little easier to me as long as the strut gets lined back up right. Is this an acceptable way to replace the cutlass bearing? or just a lazy mechanic? :) What is involved in getting the strut lined back up?


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-19-2012 at 10:04pm
Trey,
Ether method is fine and each has it's pros and cons. Getting the shaft out can be a PITA but you don't loose the strut alignment. Taking the strut off you can loose the alignment. When he puts the strut back on, he should unbolt the coupling halves and make sure the shaft is happy (turns freely) when the strut is tightened up. He may find shims under the strut and those should go back in. While he's into it, I highly recommend he checks the shaft to engine alignment.

WHY are you not doing this yourself????

BTW, remove your double post.

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<


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-19-2012 at 10:40pm
Sorry for the double post - it was by accident. Tried to delete - couldn't figure out how though.

I am considering doing this myself - just a bit intimidated by the shaft removal and/or alignment prospect. Plus I'm having hard time finding clear instructions on how to do it.


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-19-2012 at 10:59pm
Actually I think I understand the process pretty well. What I need more is...what do I need to replace or consider while in the process (i.e, upgrades, shaft seal, etc)...still intimidated by the shaft/ strut alignment :)


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-23-2012 at 12:15am
Got the prop off and will be off for repair soon. I put a dial indicator on the shaft - I wanted to see if the shaft is wobbly or bent. Is it pointless to put a dial indicator on there with a bad cutlass bearing because I got .012 movement from rotation in front of the bearing and .006 after? I could get that much movement just by moving the shaft up and down. This is without the prop on.

What is the torque on the bolts for the strut? and what about coupler?

Should this collar be there? It has 2 set screws in it. If so, what is it's purpose?



Also, any suggestions on how to get these fins straight?



Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-23-2012 at 9:56am
Trey,
Even with a bad cutlass, you should be able to get a good idea if there is a shaft problem just by holding the shaft to one side of the cutlass bearing.

That collar is the safety collar. It's there so if you break the shaft or it comes out of the coupling you won't loose the shaft plus the prop won't hit the rudder.

Yes, the fins can be straightened. The best way is off the boat in a press but I do know some have straightened them on the boat.

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Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 1:16am


Uncoupled the shaft and found the key sticking out like this. Does it supposed to be like that?

The fins are cast brass right? Do they need to be heated before bending?


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 9:35am
Trey,
That key should be all the way in the shaft keyway but worse, it looks like you are losing the shaft in the coupling. It was ether not installed properly or due to bad alignment the shaft and coupling have fretted. Was there a black smut around the interface btween the coupling and the shaft? It's a good indicator of fretting. That coupling fit to the shaft is critical. It's a heat shrink .000" to -.0005" fit. I suggest removing the coupling and getting some measurements on the shaft OD and coupling bore. You may need a new coupling and have it bored to match the shaft. The straightness of the shaft needs to be checked as well. It should not run out more than .003". Check at the prop taper too especially since the prop is bad.

When you opened up the coupling, did you take the feeler gauges out and check the alignment?

Some heat may be needed and wouldn't hurt on the cast brass but it's not always needed. Think about it this way - they bent when they were in cold water!

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Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 12:07pm
Thanks Pete. There was no black smut when I disconnected. The shaft end goes all the way (flush) to the end (inside) of the coupler. Does it supposed to go further past the coupler? I wonder if the pic is deceptive to the eye. The shiny part in the middle is the end of the shaft not the inside of the coupler.

No I didn't put feeler gauge on the coupler when I opened it up. I'm pretty sure I'm going to need a new shaft. I got up to .030 run out in some sections. Can it be straightened or do I buy new one?


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 12:21pm
Trey,
Sorry but the picture must be deceptive since it does look like the shaft has slid aft in the coupling. The shaft only needs to be flush with the inside face of the coupling.
Some have had good luck with shaft straightening others have not. There are times when the shaft wants to go back to the bent position.
If you do go new, I highly recommend the ARE double taper system. The taper at the couplng makes R&Ring the shaft easy. No heat shrink which can be a PITA.

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Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 2:30pm
Yea, I'll definitely go ARE - not much difference in price anyway.

I dropped the rudder. When I'm ready to put it back in can I just put it back in there or do I need to adjust (tighten) the packing nut? Should I go ahead and replace the rope in there or leave it alone?


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 2:50pm
Trey,
When you put ether the old straightened shaft or the ARE shaft in, you'll need to do an alignment. Remember alignment starts at the trut. Pay real close attention to it as it may be bent - shafts don't bend by themselves so I wonder if the strut took a hit too.

As long as the shaft is out, you might as well put a new cutlas bearing in plus it's bad anyway.

Packing in the stuffing box is optional but if you do go with the ARE, I'd repack it with the Gortex. That of course needs to be done after the shaft is installed.

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Posted By: ThatNautiqueGuy
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 2:51pm
I am finding all this highly educational since I hit a stump on the lake a few weeks ago in my 75 Ski Nautique. I have massive vibration... cannot go over 4mph. prop bent, strut bent and I believe the shaft is as well. I have restored this boat and it is awesome. Wanting to sell it now and move on to my next project. If you guys know of anyone that might be interested let me know... Also thanks for the info guys.


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 3:01pm
JB,
Struts can be straightened. Some here have done it themselves with the aid of a press and others have sent them out. Many prop shops will do it since they know how to deal with the brass.

When the time comes to put it all back together, you may find the alignment video in the forums "new" section (about 3/4s the way down the page) helpful.

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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 3:05pm
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21279&title=shaft-strut-alignment-video" rel="nofollow - Here's a link to the alignment video

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Posted By: ThatNautiqueGuy
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 3:06pm
Thanks Peter... I plan on straightening the strut myself with my press. Going to get the prop fixed in Hot Springs. Do you think all this should be fixed before sale?


Posted By: ThatNautiqueGuy
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 3:13pm
Awesome video. I know now mine is bent. I dry started it (yes I know thats a big no no) for about 5 seconds and you can see a visible wobble in the end of the shaft I would say about 1/4 inch. We both know... not good.


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by ThatNautiqueGuy ThatNautiqueGuy wrote:

Do you think all this should be fixed before sale?

JB,
If you are planning on selling the boat, fix the problem. Anyone looking at it and most likely wanting a water test, will want a BIG $$$$ discount in it's present condition. I'm sure way beyond what you put into it with the repair.

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Posted By: ThatNautiqueGuy
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 3:36pm
What is your recommendation for the best place to buy the shaft system?


Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 3:44pm
CorrectCraftParts...1-318-299-8547... Karen

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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by boat dr boat dr wrote:

CorrectCraftParts...1-318-299-8547... Karen

JB,
I agree.

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Posted By: ThatNautiqueGuy
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 3:58pm
Sweet! Thanks guys!


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Trey,
When you put ether the old straightened shaft or the ARE shaft in, you'll need to do an alignment. Remember alignment starts at the trut. Pay real close attention to it as it may be bent - shafts don't bend by themselves so I wonder if the strut took a hit too.

As long as the shaft is out, you might as well put a new cutlas bearing in plus it's bad anyway.

Packing in the stuffing box is optional but if you do go with the ARE, I'd repack it with the Gortex. That of course needs to be done after the shaft is installed.


The strut looks straight. Could the bad cutlass bearing and bad prop cause the bent shaft?

The bearing is on its way as is the Gortex 3/16".

Putting the RUDDER back in do I need to tighten the packing nut or leave it alone?


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by teelta teelta wrote:

Could the bad cutlass bearing and bad prop cause the bent shaft?

No
Originally posted by teelta teelta wrote:

Putting the RUDDER back in do I need to tighten the packing nut or leave it alone?

Yes, adjust the packing gland on the rudder port.

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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 5:10pm
Trey,
When you install the new shaft with the new cutlas in the strut, you will be able to tell if the stut is bent or needs to be aligned. Again, alignment starts at the strut. It's aligned so the shaft is roughly in the middle of the shaft log and when the shaft turns freely.

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Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 5:43pm
Pete, got it! Thanks so much for your help!!!!


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-26-2012 at 8:24pm
Got my new cutlass bearing in the mail. I slide on the shaft and it is a very loose fit. I can easily spin it on the shaft without any lube. I thought it would be snug. There is maybe a little less than 1/64 slop in it. I got the BACK model from Deep Blue. Is this normal?


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-26-2012 at 8:33pm
Trey,
Some will be taken up when it's pressed into the strut but, get the micrometer out (or vernier calipers) and measure the prop shaft where the cutlass rides.

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Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-27-2012 at 2:59pm
I put a micrometer on the shaft where you said and it read right at an inch. Put shaft on lathe and measured run out in several spots. I got 9-12 thousandths. So I guess I'm in the marketmarket for a new shaft. I took off the strut - glad I did. It was loose. When reattaching do you put 5200 in between strut and hull? If so, how do you factor that in when doing the alignment? I also noticed some stress cracks in this area. I think it is just gelcoat and not the fiberglass. Will post pic later.

Will I need to lap the new shaft for prop?


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-27-2012 at 3:26pm
Trey,
It's typical for shafting to run a thousands or two over in diameter. Your's may be worn slightly. Get the new shaft and measure it when you get it. It should run fairly close to the new cutlass bearing. Report back. I suggest the ARE shaft system. They are about the same cost and they sure are easy to R&R. Give Billy or Karen a call for the ARE. 318 386 2825

Don't worry about the 5200 bedding under the strut. It's not thick enough to make a difference in the shaft alignment to the log.

Yes, whenever you change out a prop or shaft, I suggest lapping. In fact, I even like to lap even if the prop has been on the same shaft before. You never know if the prop rebuild force changed it's tapered bore slightly. Many of the prop shops will run a tapered reamer in the bore after they pound on the prop but not all will. Even so, lap.

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Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: July-28-2012 at 11:20am
You might try to straighten your shaft - I was able to do that & it had a similar runout.

When you remount the strut, dry fit it 1st, then add sealant. I'd suggest 4200 because it is easier to remove down trhe road.

I found small cracks in the hull around the strut area (on inside) so check for those carefully. I added some glass to reinforce that area.

Good luck

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Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-29-2012 at 8:14pm
I might have installed the wrong cutlass bearing! The one I pulled out was 6". The one I got based on other posts was the BACK model from Deep Blue which is only 4". It does not even reach the 2nd retaining screw in the strut. Of course, I didn't realize the difference until I pressed the bearing into the strut!!! Did I get the wrong one for my strut?

Here is a pic of the cracks in the gelcoat (the dark lines outside the recess). I didn't see any on top in the fiberglass but it is pretty dirty - will need to clean.





Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-29-2012 at 8:25pm
Trey,
Clean up the inside of the bilge and check for cracking there. The 4" will work.

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Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-29-2012 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Trey,
Clean up the inside of the bilge and check for cracking there. The 4" will work.


Do I push it in more to catch both retaining screws or just use the one? Does it supposed to have the 6" in there?


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-29-2012 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by teelta teelta wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Trey,
Clean up the inside of the bilge and check for cracking there. The 4" will work.


Do I push it in more to catch both retaining screws or just use the one? Does it supposed to have the 6" in there?

Keep the cutlass at the aft end. That's where the radial lods from the prop are on the shaft.

Fill in some info in your profile I as well as others would love to hear about your engineering background/ No problem if there is none but radial loads at the strut are as basic as you can get!

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<


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: July-30-2012 at 1:59am
That makes sense! No engineering background but do know something about restoration...


Just new to boat restoration!    

Thanks for the help and for the lessons!


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-30-2012 at 9:44am
Trey,
The prop on a boat creates a radial load on the shaft it is mounted to. The closer to that radial load you can support the shaft with a bearing the better. It's called an overhung load. A good example is a gearbox with a sprocket or sheave on it's input or output shaft. The farther out the spocket or sheave is mounted away from the box the more overhung load. Gerarbox specs even spec out the permissible OH loading.

Great job on the Bronco!

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<


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: August-01-2012 at 1:03am
OK cleaned up the bilge area. Saw some tiny hairline cracks that seem surface level to me. Do you concur?




Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-01-2012 at 8:56am
Yes, those do look like they are just in the gel. If you want, you could route them out with the Dremel to be sure.

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Posted By: Airgrabber
Date Posted: August-01-2012 at 11:43am
Just replaced my shaft and coupling and put a new prop on. The coupling on mine was causing a vibration noise at slow idle sounded like the tranny was chattering. Realigned everything it’s like a new boat no vibration at all. Your prop definitely needs repaired. So while you got it all apart I would replace the coupler and shaft (ARE SHAFT) if you don’t want to take a chance to straighten the old one. Was well worth the time and effort. I’m going to see if I can straighten the old shaft. A guy I know can straighten axle shafts, just seeing if it can be done

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Posted By: Airgrabber
Date Posted: August-01-2012 at 11:51am
Nice early Bronco. I have a 1970 with 42,000 mile on it. Love those old styles. Did you just buy that? I thought I seen that Bronco on Ebay.

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Posted By: Airgrabber
Date Posted: August-01-2012 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by teelta teelta wrote:

Yea, I'll definitely go ARE - not much difference in price anyway.

I dropped the rudder. When I'm ready to put it back in can I just put it back in there or do I need to adjust (tighten) the packing nut? Should I go ahead and replace the rope in there or leave it alone?
I would but I would but I'm a little anal about using the old parts while I have it all apart.

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Life is good. Work hard! Play Hard!


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: August-01-2012 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by Airgrabber Airgrabber wrote:

Nice early Bronco. I have a 1970 with 42,000 mile on it. Love those old styles. Did you just buy that? I thought I seen that Bronco on Ebay.


Thanks. I bought it with weeds growing up through the hood and did a total frame-on restoration. I did all the work myself and even put a 5.0 EFI in. Yes, you saw it on eBay. I am trying to sell it.


Posted By: Airgrabber
Date Posted: August-01-2012 at 2:11pm
Awesome job!

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Life is good. Work hard! Play Hard!


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 11:57pm
Things went pretty smooth on the lake test today. I still have a little play in my cutlass bearing which you can feel occasionally especially in reverse - that is the only time it vibrates now. It is a bit frustrating replacing everything and still having problems with the cutlass bearing. Will probably live with it for awhile if it is not too big of a deal.


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-11-2012 at 6:32am
Trey,
I'd have to say you are OK since the only issue is in reverse. When the trans is in reverse and the planetary gear set is running, some will vibrate.

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64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: teelta
Date Posted: August-12-2012 at 12:35am
Thanks Pete for encouraging me to do it myself - it really wasn't that bad!


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-12-2012 at 8:13am
Originally posted by teelta teelta wrote:

Thanks Pete for encouraging me to do it myself - it really wasn't that bad!

Trey,
I'm happy that I was able to help.

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64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: gtxragtop
Date Posted: December-01-2012 at 11:56am
Should shaft alignment be done with the boat in the water or out of the water? I've not seen this discussed though I may have missed it?

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1996 Ski Nautique GT40

Worcester, MA.


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-01-2012 at 1:09pm
Eric always has stated that it's is best to do an engine to prop shaft alignment in the water. I personally don't feel there is that much difference with our small hulls. However, remember a total alignment starts at the strut and it's hard to check the strut to port alignment when the boats in the water.

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64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: December-01-2012 at 1:22pm
I'm with Pete. The trailers are designed to support the boat where it needs to be supported. If the alignment is changed that much by the boat being put into the water then you have more problems than shaft alignment. I have done mine twice in 600 hours on the trailer. No problems.

GTX rag top? What year?


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-01-2012 at 2:30pm
While I agree with you two and check mine on the trailer,the PCM book I have,1988ish says to check in the water.It also tells you to check everytime you launch Must be the lawyers

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: December-01-2012 at 2:50pm
I check mine every time I launch..........

In my mind its all relative. The stresses on the hull are different on the trailer as opposed to in water. The stresses on the hull are far different during on plane operation but you can't check alignment on plane ;) If anything I would assume a factory designed trailer would better immitate the stresses on the hull during on plane operation.


Posted By: gtxragtop
Date Posted: December-01-2012 at 4:12pm
1996 Ski Nautique GT40. I'll post some photos soon

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1996 Ski Nautique GT40

Worcester, MA.


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-01-2012 at 5:45pm
gtx,
If you care to, fill in your profile with at least your first name. It's certainly not required but most here do go by first names rather than screen names.

Welcome to CCFAN if I already have not greeted you. Get some pictures and some text submitted for a diary entry. Then, you can also create a personal avitar.

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54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: December-02-2012 at 7:55pm
GTX.... I'm talking about the rag top GTX???? If your screen name does infact refer to the the classic Plymouth I think it does? If not disregard.



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