Forums
NautiqueParts.comNautiqueSkins.com - Correct Craft Upholstery and Part
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - engine wont start while turning over
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

engine wont start while turning over

 Post Reply Post Reply   
Author
brantb View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: May-15-2019
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 94
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brantb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: engine wont start while turning over
    Posted: April-10-2021 at 10:20am
Put the boat away running and starting fine. Go to start the prep for the season and it wont start while the engine is turning over. I do have spark while the starter is active. The only time i can get it to run is if i crank it over for a bit and stop the starter at the right time.

My solenoid seems bad, so i am jumping that. When i turn the key i get 10.3V to the solenoid which should be enough. Anyone have a PN? 99 carbed 351W

Getting around 9.6 to the + of the coil when key is in run, and it drops to 9.4 while the starter is running.

Is there something else i should be checking?

ETA: Battery is at 12.8V. Will hook it up to jumper cables and see if that makes a difference.

ETA2: Hooking up jumper cables did it, so assuming the battery isnt good enough. Still looking for a PN on a solenoid if someone has it.
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-10-2021 at 1:03pm
Check the condition of your battery cable terminals and the battery posts. Clean them with a wire type terminal cleaner. Have the battery load tested. Also the battery should be a starting type and NOT a deep cycle. 


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
brantb View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: May-15-2019
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 94
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brantb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-10-2021 at 1:54pm
The posts and terminals were good. I put in a new battery and that didnt change anything. Power to the coil is around 10V. It has 12V stamped on it, so thinking that is my issue but not sure.

ETA: So hooking a separate battery to the coil, and using a main to start it works. Back to one battery, the coil wire has 12.6 in run. When the starting is running it drop to 10.4. Again i am doing this jumping the solenoid, so it isnt the ignition. Is that normal for it to drop when the starter is running?
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-10-2021 at 6:48pm
The starter is a big load so battery voltage to everything in the boat drops quite a bit when cranking the engine, then when it starts, the alternator is putting out voltage in the 14 or so range so everything is charging and happy.

What kind of ignition system is in the boat? Being a 99, most likely electronic and depending on the brand, some really don't like low voltage

Original Prestolite electronic module, Pertronix module, or you talked previously about getting a DUI, or maybe you have something else.

Since it was good last year, maybe cleaning all the connections in the supply to the ignition system will help.

All the connections on the key switch, the 8 plug connector at the back of the engine are some likely suspects.

You can show good voltage with your meter but have corroded  contacts that affect the currents ability to flow.
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-10-2021 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by brantb brantb wrote:

  I put in a new battery and that didnt change anything. 

What type of battery?


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
brantb View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: May-15-2019
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 94
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brantb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-10-2021 at 7:04pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by brantb brantb wrote:

  I put in a new battery and that didnt change anything. 

What type of battery?

Based on here i got an everstart maxx group 65 from walmart
Back to Top
brantb View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: May-15-2019
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 94
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brantb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-10-2021 at 7:06pm
Ken, is there a way to tell what ignition i have, or just have to find a name on it? I have not gotten the DUI yet, but this may push me into that direction sooner rather than later.

What is the best way to clean the connection? The pins i can scrub with a brush, what about the female end?
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-10-2021 at 7:09pm
Back to one of your earlier questions, here's a link to a PCM solenoid/relay or you can cross reference it to a whole bunch of stuff

Or go to your local auto parts place and ask for a Standard Motor products SMP5598 solenoid or equivalent .Wink

link
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-10-2021 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by brantb brantb wrote:

Ken, is there a way to tell what ignition i have, or just have to find a name on it? I have not gotten the DUI yet, but this may push me into that direction sooner rather than later.

What is the best way to clean the connection? The pins i can scrub with a brush, what about the female end?

Post a picture with the cap off would be the best if you're unsure

Contact cleaner etc and anything that fits in the hole will probably be good if you don't have some small wire brush type cleaners.
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-10-2021 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by brantb brantb wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by brantb brantb wrote:

  I put in a new battery and that didnt change anything. 

What type of battery?

Based on here i got an everstart maxx group 65 from walmart

Good choice. 


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
brantb View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: May-15-2019
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 94
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brantb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-10-2021 at 8:10pm






Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-10-2021 at 9:29pm
It's a Mallory Unilite kit in the original equipment Prestolite screwdown cap distributor

They can be sensitive to voltage high or low

Click on the link below and read the stuff about running a jumper from the "I" terminal of your solenoid on the back of the engine to the coil (+).


There's even a marked up drawing.Wink

It may cure your starting problem. 

It's a bit of a band aid fix that can tend to become permanent.

It works with electronic or points.
Back to Top
brantb View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: May-15-2019
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 94
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brantb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2021 at 5:52pm
From that I am reading DUI is a more permanent fix.

Any issue with having two 12v sources at the coil
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2021 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

  read the stuff about running a jumper from the "I" terminal of your solenoid on the back of the engine to the coil (+).

Originally posted by brantb brantb wrote:



Any issue with having two 12v sources at the coil

The extra wire Ken mentions is from the same source. 


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2021 at 7:15pm
Like Pete said.......same source

Just much more direct so the coil gets the most voltage it could during starting. "I" terminal to the coil is a couple of feet at the most.

The way it's wired now, the power goes from the back of the engine, through the 8 plug connector, down through the bilge to get up to the dash, through the ignition breaker, to the key switch and then it goes from the key switch back down through the bilge, back through the 8 pin connector and then to the coil. An extra 20 feet or so of wire

It's a long and winding road that has a number of places to lose small amounts of voltage due to corroded contacts etc causing extra resistance. and the length of the wire run causes some voltage loss also due to extra resistance of the long length of wire..

The direct wire from the "I" terminal only powers the coil when the key is in START( in parallel with the normal long winding path) and when the key is released to RUN, the coil gets it's power from the long winding path  but the alternator is now putting out about 14 or so volts and the ignition system is happy.

If you were to check the "I" terminal with the engine running without the bypass in place you'd have 0 volts.

With the bypass in place, you'd find the 14 or so volts from the alternator at the "i" terminal but it's coming "backwards" from the coil positive connection and not being supplied internally from the solenoid.

Hope all that makes sense to you, some applications use it as standard wiring, 

Like said in the other thread, "there's no down side to using it"
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2021 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by brantb brantb wrote:

From that I am reading DUI is a more permanent fix.

The piece of wire for the jumper is the 1 dollar thing to try.

The DUI and a new set of plug wires is the 400 plus dollar fix that still depends on having good wiring and a good voltage supply.

I know what I'd try first Wink
Back to Top
brantb View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: May-15-2019
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 94
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brantb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2021 at 9:47pm
I get it now. Had to look. The solenoid currently on there, and the replacement I ordered only have 3 posts. One bat +, one to starter, the other keyed 12v to activate the solenoid. Seems others have 4 posts with another low current 12v when you turn the key.
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-12-2021 at 6:07am
The 4th "missing" terminal that you don't have is the "I" terminal. Wink

Whatever you do, don't try and use the "S" terminal to do the same thing, it won't work. (funny things happen).
Back to Top
brantb View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: May-15-2019
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 94
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brantb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2021 at 9:41am
The solenoid shows up, and wasnt what i ordered, but it does have the 4th 'I' terminal. I put it in and it is now doing its job so i dont have to jump it. The boat turned over a little slower than when i was jumping it, but it did fire and start. I still might put a jumper wire in there just so i dont have to deal with it again. This weekend i am going to look for some small brushes and pick up contact cleaner and clean up the connection at the motor and behind the dash.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Copyright 2024 | Bagley Productions, LLC