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Velvet drive not engaging

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Tommyboy1904 View Drop Down
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    Posted: September-21-2020 at 2:52pm
My velvet drive was slipping, so I rebuilt it, on 1st test run engaged rev. Perfect. When shifting to forword it slipped slightly the engaged. Out on the water for slipped a little to engage once engaged worked fine. I figured it shouldn't slip at all. A friend added lucus stop slip transmission fix. Transmission then wouldn't shift out of gear once I got it out of gear, it wont go back into gear. So I checked to see if oil was being pumped and none was. I pulled shift control valve it seemed ok as far as I know . Can that lucus gum up the pump and cause it to stop pumping? I dont know what else it could be except pump problem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-21-2020 at 3:27pm
There is a screen on the bottom cooler line that would clog before a pump would. I'd check that first
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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-21-2020 at 3:33pm
Tom,
Is the trans pump orientation correct for the engine rotation? You can also tee in a pressure gauge on the trans line to the cooler to check pressure.  

BTW, I get the Lucas out and then get a new "friend" Big smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommyboy1904 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-21-2020 at 7:43pm
Thanks Gary, I’ll check that screen tomorrow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommyboy1904 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-21-2020 at 7:51pm
With both hoses off pump the trans does not pump any oil out of trans.so I would say pressure is at or around 0, your right about the friend   , you think the lucus was too thick?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-21-2020 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Tom,
Is the trans pump orientation correct for the engine rotation?  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-22-2020 at 6:17am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Tom,
Is the trans pump orientation correct for the engine rotation?  

I'll answer this with a quote from Tommyboy in his first post Pete

Originally posted by Tommyboy1904 Tommyboy1904 wrote:

My velvet drive was slipping, so I rebuilt it, on 1st test run engaged rev. Perfect. When shifting to forword it slipped slightly the engaged. Out on the water for slipped a little to engage once engaged worked fine.

If it was oriented wrong the boat never would have gone into gear to begin with
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-22-2020 at 6:30am
Tommyboy

I think you'll soon be into teardown number 2 because your issues are internal to the transmission 

By your description,you had the problem before the Lucas was added. The Lucas doesn't turn the fluid into a red Jello like substance that plugs up stuff and makes it quit flowing.

From the sounds of it, it must not have gone into reverse either if your pump isn't working

You should probably ignore Pete and hang on to the friend  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommyboy1904 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-22-2020 at 2:26pm
I kinda knew along that the lucus wouldn't turn to jello, I guess it was wishful thinking. The screen was also clean. I dont understand what could have gone wrong . To go from working, to stuck in gear, to wont engage.it was working fine once engaged, any ideas as to what I did wrong on 1st rebuild
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-22-2020 at 5:18pm
I imagine you have a manual to refer to.

I think the problem area will be your forward clutch piston/cylinder that compresses the big convex spring to compress the forward clutches. A bad seal or O ring could let it get cocked and let lots of flow past it.

The line to the cooler having no flow could be because of this too since the cooler only gets oil that is diverted by the pressure regulator/shift valve to maintain operating pressure in the transmission. If it's having a hard time maintaining pressure it would divert nothing to the cooler supply line.

Or maybe the pump is dead, but it would probably bind up, break and not turn at all and keep the engine from rotating too.

I could be all screwed about this too, but I suddenly have this urge for some red Jello and whipped cream Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommyboy1904 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-23-2020 at 11:20am
I’m mot looking forword to pulling the trans again, if the shift control is not working how would I know? I pulled it out and it looked ok should i compress the spring pull retaining clip and make sure that cyclnder is moving freely, also is it possible to install it the wrong way or will it go in only one way
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-23-2020 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by Tommyboy1904 Tommyboy1904 wrote:

I’m mot looking forword to pulling the trans again, if the shift control is not working how would I know? I pulled it out and it looked ok should i compress the spring pull retaining clip and make sure that cyclnder is moving freely, also is it possible to install it the wrong way or will it go in only one way

Only goes in one way and they usually don't have any issues. It's a beefy little spring in there that needs a special tool to compress.

You never did answer whether it goes into reverse at all Wink

The manual tells how to check the line pressure in Forward, neutral and reverse, no T's into cooling lines like somebody mentioned above, just a gauge that reads to 200psi and a couple of adapters for the gauge. The test port for forward and neutral is right near the cooler supply line fitting and it's 3/8 npt threads. The reverse port is at the top at the very front of the transmission and is 1/4 npt threads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommyboy1904 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-24-2020 at 12:20pm
Originally after 1st rebuild it shifted into rev fine, for. Slipped a little then engaged. Then 2nd run after lucus was added wouldn't shift out of gear. Once forced out of gear it wouldn't go into for or rew. Would presure be present even though no oil is pumped out of trans if so I will try your gauge idea at those ports. I figured to oil flow no presure. Unless shift control valve is responsible for oil flow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-24-2020 at 12:27pm
Tom,
One question that may come up is how did you "force" it out of gear? 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-24-2020 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by Tommyboy1904 Tommyboy1904 wrote:

Originally after 1st rebuild it shifted into rev fine, for. Slipped a little then engaged. Then 2nd run after lucus was added wouldn't shift out of gear. Once forced out of gear it wouldn't go into for or rew. Would presure be present even though no oil is pumped out of trans if so I will try your gauge idea at those ports. I figured to oil flow no presure. Unless shift control valve is responsible for oil flow

Do you have a manual?

There's a pretty good explanation of the oil system with a diagram. Different manuals have it on different pages but it's there.

Hook a 0 to 200 psi gauge to the forward/neutral test port and rev it in neutral to 8 or 900 rpm and see what it reads. (135 ish would be a good representative number)

Then shift it to forward and see what it reads. Should stay at the same 135 ish, if it drops a lot, then there's a lot of leakage by the forward piston/cylinder

The plug in the test port has probably never been out and it can be a real bear to get it out.

Same for the reverse test port, it can be a bear to get out.

If you have zero pressure in neutral your pump isn't working at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommyboy1904 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-24-2020 at 4:01pm
Force? Now that's a funny word force. I suppose it will always be a matter of option . Lets just say it was not a Shift done without more than normal presure. Nah I kinda forced it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommyboy1904 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-24-2020 at 4:09pm
Thats some great advice. Ill try that tomorrow. I’m not willing to start pulling the trans quiet yet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-24-2020 at 4:31pm
Make sure the hoses for the cooler are back on and the shift valve works smoothly.

I'd probably just shift it at the lever with the cable disconnected Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommyboy1904 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-30-2020 at 1:11am
Sorry its been awhile I’ve been trying to remove those plugs to test the pressure, no way are they coming out. I had to cut open trans for 1st rebuild. Im going to pull tranny and tear it down. Hopefully I will find out what happened. If not I’ll be back on here. Thanks for your help
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-30-2020 at 5:27am
Originally posted by Tommyboy1904 Tommyboy1904 wrote:

Sorry its been awhile I’ve been trying to remove those plugs to test the pressure, no way are they coming out. I had to cut open trans for 1st rebuild. Im going to pull tranny and tear it down. Hopefully I will find out what happened. If not I’ll be back on here. Thanks for your help

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

The plug in the test port has probably never been out and it can be a real bear to get it out.

Same for the reverse test port, it can be a bear to get out.

Heating the plugs with a set of torches loosens things up pretty good usually.

Then putting in a couple of brass plugs with a hex head make life easier

I think you really meant to say " I'll be back to let you know what I find when it's apart" Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote e3lwj6wv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2020 at 11:15am
I think If it was oriented wrong the boat never would have gone into gear, to begin with.
if you  pulled it out and then compress the spring pull retaining clip and make sure that the cylinder is moving freely fishing equipment online uae, sometimes when we  compress it  the cylinder became fixed and also keep in mind is it possible to install it the wrong way or will it go in only one way.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FFImarine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2020 at 11:49am
Sounds like it’s a bad oil pump, also a stuck control valve can cause it to not engage, if you need any help or if you just wanna send it to us for a rebuild and not have to worry about pulling it again give us a call 330-273-8291, sorry I haven’t been on for awhile but for some reason the site wouldn’t load for me for quite sometime
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommyboy1904 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2020 at 3:36pm
OK I finally gave up on trying to pull the plugs to check the pressure it just wasn’t happening so I decided to pull the tranny again this time instead of going through the starter hole in the bell housing I took the whole bell housing off and to my surprise the whole flex plate was not mounted to the fire with the screws were inside the bell housing but the flex plate itself was unattached I think I found the problem So I reinstall the tranny making sure the flex plate was hooked up which it was before and proceeded to start the motor well now the Cupler drive shaft and propeller spin however it seems to be stuck N forward and will not come out of gear It seems to have good pressure going to the transmission fluid cooler however it still won’t shift gears or come out of gear so I figured shift control valve I took that apart again decompress spring took out cylinder make sure sled really wasn’t stuck put it all back together and didn’t make any difference however I did notice when I have the shiftControl arm in Ford the breather hole will build pressure with my finger over it however with the shift control lever in neutral or reverse it doesn’t seem to be building any pressure I don’t know if that really is a factor or not I thought I’d throw it in there and see if anybody had any ideas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2020 at 4:45pm
Tom,
I don't see it mentioned. What model Velvet is it? Did you put the same number of clutch plates back in the trans that you took out? 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FFImarine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2020 at 6:42pm
With the engine off are you able to turn the output coupling on the transmission?
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Its s 70c or a 71c.   1:1 ratio
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With the engine off I cannot turn the Cupler
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Yes I put back the same amount of plate that I took out
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I hate to say but if you can’t turn the output coupler then the transmission is locked in gear and will need to be pulled back apart
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