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Seeking advice on 1968 Barracuda Rebuild/Repower

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blammie View Drop Down
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    Posted: August-30-2020 at 12:41pm
So I have a '68 Barracuda, completely stock, everything is there, with a Chrysler 318 setup. I bought the boat in about 2008 and ran it for about 5-6 years before I overheated, blew a head gasket, and cracked a head. When I had the heads and intake off, assessing the damage, I noticed the cam was badly scored. I dried it out and resembled with new gaskets. It ran, but was leaking on one of the heads. I ended up winterizing it, and mothballing it. Figuring I was at a point that I should rebuild or Re power I turned my attention to my Chris Craft, which needed everything, but was a more practical boat for me at the time. Now The Chris Craft is about done, and it's time for the Barracuda to get some love.

My question is this. What do you think? I have options, but am not sure which route I should take. Cosmetically, I am in pretty good shape. Interior is fresh  My stringers are in good shape (I think). I going to drop some cash into my gauges and have them rebuilt, but mostly I want to repower for now and get her back on the water. Option1. I could put a new long block in. That's the most expensive option, but represents the least amount of risk. Option 2. I have a friend with a 70's Dodge Ram. he bought for the axles. It's got a 318. He says the motor runs good and I can have it for $200-300. I'd need a cam, and its a motor with a 70kish miles, but I trust his judgement. He's a good wrench. Option 3. I'm fortunate to have good salvage options here, near the south shore of Lake Erie. A trusted salvage guy says he had a good running 360 that I he's offering for $900. This may be a good option, since its already marine, and I think I will probably get the carb and all the ancillary parts that I wont get with along block, but I have no idea how many hours are on it. It's also a newer vintage 318, and I'm not sure if there are differences that might create issues with installation. Option 4. I could pull my motor and have it rebuilt. I really haven't looked into the cost of this but assume it will be similar to a long block price. What do you think?

I'm not to deep into this boat. I gave $1300 for it, and put another $1500 into the interior. I have good bones to work with. I feel like I still have some head room to put some money into it, without just pissing it away, but don't see any sense in spending more than I have to. Any thoughts would be appreciated. How do you feel about used motors? I see risk. Does it effect resale value being original vs swapped motor? Not that I'm looking to sell, but I'm kind of "numbers matching" right now. I Like the idea of having a completely original boat that is nearly as old as me, but mostly want to make sure she's reliable.  Thought would be greatly appreciated.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 12:53pm
Brett,
It sure looks like it's in fantastic shape especially with the new interior. Regarding the engine, keep in mind the original is a reverse rotation and I highly recommend keeping it RR.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 1:41pm
Beautiful boat.  Hopefully you can get the parts for a rebuild.  As Pete said, it’s a reverse rotation engine so an automotive engine won’t simply drop in properly.  If you need heads, block, intake and similar, an automotive donor engine is an option.  The cam may be a bit of a challenge to find if one is needed.  Several cam specialists can make you a RR cam but it won’t come cheap.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 1:48pm
One thing I am not familiar with is how Chryslers built RR engines. Did they use a RR cam or did they use a gear set instead of a standard rotation timing chain and sprockets? I' sure one of our Mopar gearheads like Zach will know. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 1:51pm
Good point, Pete.  I rebuilt a 318 back in the mid 1970’s but I can’t remember much...hell, at my age I’m just happy to remember to zip down first. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blammie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 2:22pm
Ok, so I hear ya say, rebuild what I have. My gut was also telling me that. Let me ask this. I'm a pretty solid wrench, but I've never attempted a rebuild like this from the ground up before. I don't know what I don't know about building motors. Is this a project I can take on over the winter and get right? or do I farm it out? I'm hands on, and would prefer to do it myself, but my lack of experience worries me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 3:26pm
This may not be the best project to learn on as far as engine rebuilds go. What you may want to do is to pull the engine yourself and strip it down to long-block configuration. Then you take the long-block with all the associated new parts over to a good machine shop and have them do the heavy lifting on the rebuild. Then you pick up a fully rebuilt long-block and install all the accessories and put the engine back in the boat yourself.  Sort of a hybrid approach where the experts do what they do best. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 3:38pm
No reason why you could not if you have the tools,you are basically just assembling it . You first need a machine shop you can trust to do the "heavy" work-checking the block for cracks,bore,deck surface etc if needed,checking the crank and doing head rebuilds installing brass core plugs assembling pistons to the rods setting ring gaps etc. As you assemble it you are basically checking their accuracy - ring gaps,bearing clearances,rod end clearances,crankshaft end clearance etc. Maybe to get a idea whats involved is to get books like these- How to rebuild the Small Block Mopar by William Burt.  I have in the past used the Ford versions of these type of publications which are more helpful than the factory's manuals.
JQ's method is good as well just have to make sure they understand marine engines and reverse rotation too.There may be some Mopar tricks that us Ford and Chevy guy's don't know  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 93/70 ccpb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 5:08pm
i have some parts from a 66 chrysler polyhead,cam, pistons, heads, pumps.pulleys dont know if they will match up with a 68 your more than welcome to take a look in streetsboro ohio,i thought you were over in pit area,pm me for directions 
what you dont want to hear from jbear and bill.you cant get in the boat till you get your minute,and they throw you back in water!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 93/70 ccpb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 5:09pm
ill inventory on monday for you,
what you dont want to hear from jbear and bill.you cant get in the boat till you get your minute,and they throw you back in water!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by 93/70 ccpb 93/70 ccpb wrote:

i have some parts from a 66 chrysler polyhead,cam, pistons, heads, pumps.pulleys dont know if they will match up with a 68 your more than welcome to take a look in streetsboro ohio,i thought you were over in pit area,pm me for directions 
I have heard that not much will interchang from the poly's to the LA series. I may be wrong??


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

One thing I am not familiar with is how Chryslers built RR engines. Did they use a RR cam or did they use a gear set instead of a standard rotation timing chain and sprockets? I' sure one of our Mopar gearheads like Zach will know. 

RR used a timing chain just like the normal rotation engines.

They have a camshaft cut for reverse rotation.

By the way Pete, even if they used gears  and no chain like a RR Chevy, you still need a camshaft ground for reverse rotation, otherwise all your timing events are all screwed up and it'll never run Wink

There's not a reverse rotation engine out there that that uses the same camshaft as it normal rotation counterpart
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by blammie blammie wrote:

Ok, so I hear ya say, rebuild what I have. My gut was also telling me that. Let me ask this. I'm a pretty solid wrench, but I've never attempted a rebuild like this from the ground up before. I don't know what I don't know about building motors. Is this a project I can take on over the winter and get right? or do I farm it out? I'm hands on, and would prefer to do it myself, but my lack of experience worries me.

Like Gary said, buy a book, read it a couple times and decide if you're comfortable doing it yourself or at least semi comfortable Wink

Nobody was born knowing how do rebuild an engine

And a good machine shop like he said too. Most of them, it seems if they tell you it'll be a month it'll be 3 or 4
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 6:28pm
Counter viewpoint:

Buy used engine.  Put RR cam in & use your accessories.

How many hours are you going to put on it in next few years?  If not many, it should do what you want.
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

Counter viewpoint:

Buy used engine.  Put RR cam in & use your accessories.

How many hours are you going to put on it in next few years?  If not many, it should do what you want.

What's the counter point to a counter point called?

He should stock up on oil and his favorite bilge cleaning soap if he does this.

The early cranks have those wick lines to worry about. Later ones .........good luck finding a RR rear main seal. His friends 70's engine will be a 2 piece rear main seal with wick lines on the crank for normal rotation.

So he might as well swap the crankshaft too, then he might as well orient the pistons for RR in a Chrysler.

It just keeps getting more and more involved with reversing that auto engine Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 7:56pm
I would worry about oil control running a crank backwards Chris,I wonder if they used something like a Ford. The PO of my Mustang did exactly that but the upside was that the oil coated stringers were preserved. Started before I had to assist with dinner Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 9:46pm
points taken

Didn't think about wick lines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frydaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-10-2020 at 2:54pm
I was in your shoes with my 1966 Barracuda, but I had the poly 318. No parts. I re-powered using a Mercruiser 233. My main goal with the re-power was easy replacement parts and maintaining the original doghouse.

My advice is, if you have the non-poly 318, have it rebuilt. Also, you could look for a running takeout. My found my Mercruiser on Craigslist for $250. It was a complete setup-up with extra parts I was able to sell.

Good luck and also good looking Barracuda,

Chris


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-10-2020 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by frydaddy frydaddy wrote:

found my Mercruiser on Craigslist for $250. It was a complete setup-up with extra parts I was able to sell.

Chris
Chris,
Was it a reverse rotation engine? If not, how does the Cuda handle?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frydaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-10-2020 at 3:37pm
Yes, it is a reverse rotation. I am here in the Dallas, TX area and found it down in south padre. It was used in a Dolphin tour boat. They had both right and left hand engines and I grabbed the right. I turned it into a vacation for the family, pulling my trailer, returning with a Mer cruiser. When I told my story they thru in a Dolphin tour for the family. Good times.

The engine had a freshwater kit on it as it was used in the gulf. The manifolds were rusted out, replaced them with interceptor log manifolds allowing me to fit everything under the doghouse. 

It also came with a 1.52:1 velvet drive that I have been trying to sell for years.

The Barracuda runs great. The poly was 230 hp the Mercruiser is 233 hp, so very similar. If anything the Mercruiser is lighter. It has the original prop and runs top speed 43mph.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67 ski nat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-10-2020 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:



Good point, Pete.  I rebuilt a 318 back in the mid 1970’s but I can’t remember much...hell, at my age I’m just happy to remember to zip down first. 

JQ


I’m more worried about your zip UP afterwards

Beauty boat   
I’ve been pondering Rebiuld 318 someday too. Definitely keep RR Mopar 318, you can use all components (ei..alt,h20 pump, etc .. plus originality
Long block $3000 (China parts ??)
Rebiuld by local top shelf shop $4500 but little higher compression and warranty
I just like the fun of working with cool old engine builder, he can help with any tuning issues too
You did so well on boat price you can afford to do right
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