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David14 View Drop Down
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    Posted: April-23-2020 at 1:14am
Hi
I have a 1992 pcm engine on my ski Nautique. It won’t start when cold. Complete nightmare wrestling match to finally get it fired up. Once fired and warm though, it runs great all day. I’m not a mechanic at all but wondering if possibly it needs a carb kit for the holly. Or an ACT sensor maybe?
Need help

Thanks
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Jonny Quest View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 2:31am
ProTech EMS or distributor? Have you verified that the electric choke is functioning properly? If you give the throttle 2 or 3 full pumps, can you see fuel squirting down the carb bore? Have you checked the timing? These are a few things to check and then let us know what you find. Also, more info is usually better than less...

JQ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 12:33pm
thanks--yes, there is fuel entering carb when i pump the throttle. timing is perfect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by David14 David14 wrote:

thanks--yes, there is fuel entering carb when i pump the throttle. timing is perfect.


This could lead to long "discussions" on choke adjustment and whether or not you need the choke.

Also the same long "discussions" on how many times to pump the throttle before you turn the key.

Hang on to your shorts

You forgot to answer JQ's question about distributor or the Pro Tech system.

What do you have to do to get it started when cold ?
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David14 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 1:13pm
Hi

How do I post a pic on here

Newbie😎
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 1:18pm
Hi
I pump the throttle on the edge of flooding at and turn the key on the edge of overheating the starter. sometimes its not too bad and yesterday I couldnt even get it started
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 3:30pm
Doesn’t sound like a very good procedure... you’re likely flooding it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MechGaT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 11:52pm
What makes an engine hard to start cold? Poor atomization of the gas resulting in bad air/fuel mixture. With a weak spark it can also have a harder time igniting cold fuel. It sounds like you are getting gas. Flooding could be the problem, but I am going to assume you don’t start out by pumping the throttle a bunch, you do it because it won’t start with a couple of pumps. How fresh is the gas? Do you have Protec ( coil packs on back of the engine) or a distributor? Did it ever start well since you have owned it?
'92 Sport Nautique
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Jonny Quest View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 6:43pm
Fuel + Air + Spark. No big mystery. What I look for:

- Good compression
- Good spark system (plugs, wires, distributor, resistor, cap, rotor, 12V feed, etc.)
- Good timing
- Not flooded

With all those working, a couple shots of fuel from the accelerator or pump should produce some "life" when you engage the starter motor.

JQ
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited

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2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow

Aqua skiing, ergo sum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2020 at 10:38pm
I’m wondering if there’s a cold start sensor? I’m not a mechanic but have heard of ACT and ECt sensors. Also wondering if the electronic ignition can be sending wrong message? How do I post a pic on here?

Thank you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-26-2020 at 8:30am
No sensors like a fuel injected engine would have

I'm wondering if you're ever gonna answer the question a couple of people have asked already?   

That would be does it have a distributor of the pro tech ignition system?

Top picture has pro tech system with plug wires coming from the coil packs at the rear of the engine

Bottom has a distributor up front with wires coming from it.







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Jonny Quest View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-26-2020 at 11:30am
Originally posted by David14 David14 wrote:

Hi

How do I post a pic on here

Newbie😎


At the top of the page, just under the thread title “Cold start” you will see a button that says “Post Reply”. Click on that button. The Post Reply box then comes up for you to compose your reply. At the top of the box you will see several icons. One icon looks like a little green tree with a blue arrow pointing up. Click on that icon and follow the instructions to post a picture.

A picture of your engine would be helpful. Again...does your engine have the ProTech system or is it a standard distributor/ coil set-up? Look at the pics posted by KENO if you are unsure. The ProTech system has all the spark plug wires running to the rear of the engine. The standard distributor / coil system has all the spark plug wires running to the front of the engine.

JQ
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited

Previous
2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow

Aqua skiing, ergo sum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-26-2020 at 12:00pm
David,
FYI, why several have asked about the ignition system is the Pro Tech is know to failure. There are actual kits available to convert to a common distributor and coil set up. There were so many problems with the Pro Tech that parts are even hard to find.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-26-2020 at 12:09pm
Sorry about that. mine is the top pic. Protec
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where can i buy a conversion kit?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-26-2020 at 12:58pm
Well it's ProTec, is it? You can see the tell-tale "hockey puck" where the distributor would normally sit.

To add a bit to what Pete said earlier...the ProTec engine management system was developed by PCM and was installed for several years in the late 80's and early 90's. The ProTec system was designed to monitor the engine and manage ignition timing. ProTec has sensors to detect low oil pressure and high engine temperature. If ProTec detects a low oil pressure or high engine temperature condition, then it will automatically go into "Limp Home" mode. That means that the engine will only operate at low RPMs -- and ony 2 or 3 cyliners will receive an ignition spark. As the name suggests, the Limp Home mode is designed to get you back to the dock withouth totally destroying your engine. ProTec also managed the ignition timing. The system was designed with 4 "coil packs" instead of a typical distributor and single coil. ProTec has a detonation or "knock" sensor to detect pre-ignition (pinging) and is designed to adjust the timing appropriately. For it's time, the ProTec system worked well. The problem is that PCM no longer stocks parts for the ProTec system. Parts are very difficult to obtain.

There are many who believe that the ProTec system is a "ticking time-bomb" and that failure is not "IF" but "WHEN". Some have reported intermittent glitches that became progressively worse. Some simply failed all at once. The symptoms of ProTec failure typically are reported to be:

- Intermittent hard starting (cold, hot or both)
- Intermittent engine stumbling or running rough
- Complete engine shut-down
- ProTec going into "Limp Home" mode without cause

My 1994 Ski Nautique had the ProTec system. I was experiencing the intermittent hard starting issues for a year. Then, my ProTec catastrophically failed during a ski run. One second I was pulling a skier at 32 MPH and the next second the engine completely shut down. I had to be towed back to the dock.

You may be experiencing ProTec fun with your cold starts.

JQ
Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited

Previous
2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow

Aqua skiing, ergo sum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-26-2020 at 1:12pm
sounds like this DUI may be the answer. now, how to get all I need?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-26-2020 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by David14 David14 wrote:

where can i buy a conversion kit?


Here's a conversion kit from Skidim

Kit

There are also some that have done conversions by just purchasing individual parts. More work but less expensive.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-27-2020 at 5:47pm
Converting from ProTec to a standard distributor is not all that hard. Several of us have made the switch. Unless you've got frying pans for hands, you can do it yourself with a modest amount of mechanical ability.

JQ
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited

Previous
2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow

Aqua skiing, ergo sum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2020 at 11:33pm
Hi-I am looking into getting a DUI distributor kit. wondering which one I need though? and which engine I actually have?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2020 at 1:00am
Your engine tag says PLD. That is PCM code for a standard rotation Ford 351W (not High Output). Get the DUI marine version for Ford 5.8 / 351W for standard rotation. 7,000 rpm model. For reference, the part number is M35820RD. The last 2 letters indicate the cap color. RD=red. BL=blue YL=yellow. You get the picture.

There is no complete plug-and-play "kit" for the DUI. www.skidim.com does sell a kit to convert from ProTec back to distributor, but it uses a Mallory distributor (don't know the brand of coil included).

A forum member "JPASS" did the DUI swap and provided a nice write-up. The link below will take you to the thread.

LINK to DUI Swap Thread

JQ
Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited

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2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow

Aqua skiing, ergo sum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2020 at 2:32am
Thank you

I appreciate the help
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2020 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by David14 David14 wrote:

Thank you

I appreciate the help


Send me a Private Message (PM) and I can provide additional help if needed.

JQ
Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited

Previous
2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow

Aqua skiing, ergo sum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2020 at 11:24am
Thank you, I will do that when rolling. Just wondering what wiring or additoinal parts I should buy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2020 at 11:38am
DUI distributor. New spark plugs. Spark plug wires (I would make my own plug wires). Basic electrical tools and parts for cutting, joining and making wire Connections. Electrical tape. Wire loom. That’s about it.

JQ
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited

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2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow

Aqua skiing, ergo sum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Efregoe6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2021 at 1:03pm
David, did the new DUI help out?  I have the same engine with the same issue.  Shes tough to get started when cold but runs and starts again like a dream when warm. 
I still have my Holly carb and ProTech ignition. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2021 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by David14 David14 wrote:

Hi
I have a 1992 pcm engine on my ski Nautique. It won’t start when cold. Complete nightmare wrestling match to finally get it fired up. Once fired and warm though, it runs great all day. I’m not a mechanic at all but wondering if possibly it needs a carb kit for the holly. Or an ACT sensor maybe?
Need help

Thanks
Ethan 

How about a good play by play description of your version of David's wrestling match that eventually gets it started since you have the same problem?Wink
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