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ProTec Ignition Swap

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nobrainsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2016 at 2:04pm
I would like to thank JPASS and all of the others who have contributed to this thread. When my 94 Ski Nautique started to have intermittent issues I was sure it was the Protec system beginning to fail. It was great to find this thread with detailed descriptions and photographs. I had no trouble swapping out the carb and the ignition system. My boat has run reliably ever since!

Perfect pass, a new 100 amp alternator, a closed cooling system, new manifolds and risers, a new carb (rebuilt), a DUI distributor, rewired harness, a mechanical fuel pump and the proper hard gas line... all thanks to CCF. I really appreciate the forum.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2016 at 2:10pm
Is that really the correct timing in that picture? That's quite a few degrees different from the norm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2016 at 2:14pm
who's to say he has his plug wires on the same terminals as the "norm"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2016 at 2:27pm
Distributor cap position, wire position... There is no such thing as "normal position". Order, yes- position, no. It all depends on the orientation of the distributor when it was installed. There is no right or wrong (other than cosmetics).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nobrainsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2016 at 2:27pm
DUI said that I could choose any one of the terminals to be #1. Just had to make sure that the progression from that point was correct. This orientation made the connections to my wiring harness conveniently placed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JPASS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2016 at 2:37pm
Never really thought about it as everyone seemed to wind up with the dizzy in a similar position. Makes perfect sense to have it look different depending on the installation though.

Glad the write up helped.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2016 at 2:41pm
Todd,
The norm can be anywhere in 360 degrees depending on where distributor gear is engaged on the cam.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KRoundy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2016 at 1:24pm
Hmmm... I guess this is true now that I think about it.. I guess it was just dumb luck that the first two installations were at the same orientation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2016 at 4:08pm
In virtually all of my engine books, the authors recommend to get the #1 terminal of the dizzy to point toward #1 cylinder. Probably for ease of remembering which terminal is truly #1. If you want to call that "norm" fine, but #1 terminal can point any direction you want it to.

That's probably the reason that dizzy manufacturers have designed the caps to have the company name or logo facing in a particular direction when the dizzy is oriented in this manner. When it's different then the "norm" it looks odd.
Hence, the DUI script on top of the cap facing a different direction then the "norm". I'm pretty sure most all of the DUI installs I've seen have the script going port/stbd. Ford or Chevy doesn't matter. The manufacturers take that into consideration.
My MSD cap script is facing straight fore/aft in this pic. The cap and the terminal keeper is keyed so it can only go on one way and my dizzy is set so #1 is pointing toward #1 cylinder.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2016 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by backfoot100 backfoot100 wrote:

My MSD cap script is facing straight fore/aft ]

Eddie,
You're as OCD with your distributor caps as you are with the rest of the boat! I love it!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nobrainsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-06-2016 at 2:12pm
Wow Backfoot100, that is a clean looking ride!

Since everyone likes photos here is a shot of the 'T' coming off my manifold with the temp sensor on one end and a heater connection coming off the other. This is why my DUI is not squared up to the engine. Nice to be able to set it up any way I wanted to.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michiel200 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2016 at 10:54am
During the winter storage, I've swapped my ProTec for a DUI.
I bought the distributor and cables in the US from a guy who had it installed on his S.N. but sold the boat with the old set.




I followed the instructions in this post, but can't get the engine (PCM 5.8 HO)
to start this week (the first week that the boat is in the water).

Made the new connections, disconnected the EMS and Trigger plug
I found out the TDC in cilinder 1, using my finger (feeling the compression) and a small wooden stick and a wrench turning the cranck. Marked the distributor where the rotor was pointing at and made this cil 1. Checked the firing order and connected all plug cables.

After a couple of cranks, the voltage on the DUI dropped under 10,5 V, so I made a direct connection to the battery having 11,5 V on the cable connected to the DUI. When I remove a spark plug and crank, I see a clear spark. Gap is 0,05, plugs are new Motorcrafts from Skidim. Tried several distributor positions around the marked cil 1 position.

Any thoughts from you guys?
Many thanks in advance from Holland

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malcolm2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2016 at 11:26am
do you have an inductive type timing light? Although you said you got spark on #1. You could quickly check all 8 with one of those.

Sounds like you have installed it correctly and the DUI is getting the correct voltage. Maybe you have a fuel issue. Make sure you are getting fuel. Carb I assume? Even tho the disty is new, you should go thru std "no-start" troubleshooting procedures.

Good Luck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michiel200 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2016 at 11:45am
Hi Malcolm, I don't have an inductive timing light. My plan was to get the engine started and ask a local shop to set it on time. The spark on cil 1 was by just taking it off and crancking it.

I already did some checks regarding fuel, since I replaced the fuel filter this winter. And the spark plugs looked quited dry, despite the cranking i did. So I passed the filter, connecting the tube direct from tank to pump. However, no result.
I will look further in this direction. Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malcolm2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2016 at 11:55am
I did this swap and have a post called "Voltage for my pro-tec swap", search that. Or click on my name and look for my posts to find it..... Unless you have already looked at it. There are a few more details on DUI set up on my post.

I was thinking about the timing light to check that you have juice from the DUI to each plug. If you clamp the inductive connector to the wires 1 at a time and power up the light, then turn the boat key and hold at start while you pull the timing light trigger, the light will flash (if you are getting juice), regardless of what cylinder wire it is on. Just point the timing light to the carpet. A quicker and less-shocking way to check that the DUI is working. You still don't know you get spark, but you eliminate the DUI as the prob.

That is how I found out my coil packs were not working.

Make sure the DUI cap is on tightly and properly. the hold down hooks are wonky. I can't remember what the DUI has for a rotor, but check inside once more.

Careful on unfiltered fuel. Good way to block up your carb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2016 at 12:13pm
Verify timing order. The rotor rotates counter clockwise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michiel200 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2016 at 8:32am
This morning, I put the distributor more 'early' than I did before.
And she started rightaway and ran smooth. For about a minute.
The engine choked, obviously because of a lack of fuel.

I started investing the fuel filter housing. Because this winter, I renewed the filter. But it didn't came with a new rubber ring. So I went to a local tractor shop, and they had a ring that fitted oke. Now it occurs that the ring was not oke, but too big (it expanded). It caused what we call over here 'false air', the housing was not closed tight so the pump was not able to get fuel into the carb. The engine ran on the fuel that was in the carb when I put the fuel hose straight on the pump, skipping the filter.

So this week I get a new ring and have the timing set. And hopefully I can enjoy the new ignition. And a lesson learned not to work on fuel and ignition at the same time. This makes troubleshooting a lot more complex.
Many thanks for your suggestions!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michiel200 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2016 at 7:30am
Last weekend, I set the timing with a lamp and made a test drive.
The result is amazing. It starts on the button and accelerates better than ever. Especially above 4000 rpm. It feels it gains an extra 40 hp at high rpm. I should have done this much earlier. JP, again many thanks for your instructions. This made the swap real easy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-16-2016 at 6:15pm
JPass - or one of the other guys that has done this swap,   I am looking to get my order placed with summit, and would like to know which wire set you ended up with?    
the Taylor Spiro pro has lots of choices, so I want to make sure I get the correct item.
I have gt-40 heads in my 94

- 90° boots or some other angle?

are these correct?     
Taylor Wires - Summit

EDIT: LINK CHANGED TO 90° END KIT FOR FUTURE REFERENCE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-16-2016 at 6:39pm
90s on both ends
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-16-2016 at 6:43pm
Perfect!   Thank you !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-01-2016 at 2:16pm
Thank you JPASS - My DUI is installed and the boat runs!   I have a 94 that came with the Protec Injection as well,   This set of installation instructions works for TBI boats as well, as long as you are replacing the TBI with a carb.    The TBI wiring harness is essentially separate with the exception of the interconnected tach wire and one other yellow wire.   there are some extra sensors to input to the TBI module that will be abandoned in place.   The wiring can all come out though.    You will need to remove the 15A circuit breaker on the back of the engine ( leave the 60 and the 12.5) and you can reinstall the 2 remaining breakers on the bracket that the was originally mounted too.   the FI module bracket is no longer needed and should be removed for accessibility. While you are working through the wiring harness, the original (Non TBI) wiring harness already includes wiring for the electric choke on the Holley Carb, all you need to do is un-tape the wires from the harness (they're covered up) and plug them in.

Lesson learned:   Nicely routed plug wires are great, but err on the side of making the wires too long...   they looked fantastic until I timed the engine, and I wound up with a couple of wires that were tight...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2019 at 12:58am
I recently replaced my Protec with a DUI. I used the same parts and did the installation basically the same as JPASS but decided to install a couple of relays as well. Here is the schematic and a link to the relays that I used





Link to Summit Racing Relays P/N 5593PT

The relays connect battery voltage directly from the 50amp breaker to the DUI rather than the existing method of routing the voltage through the dash and key switch.

Relay #1 is normally open and will close when the key is turned to the on or start position applying voltage to the DUI.

Relay #2 is normally closed and will open when the existing protec water temp switch detects an over temp condition. This will kill the engine if it starts to overheat.

I was originally going to use the oil pressure switch as well but when starting the engine it takes a few cranks to get enough pressure to open the switch so the engine didn't start right away. I just disconnected the wire at the oil pressure switch and capped it off.

I mounted a third relay as a spare. It's not connected to anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2019 at 1:51am
Nice, clean installation. I like the dedicated relay for the DUI dizzy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2019 at 8:36am
Originally posted by desertskier desertskier wrote:




Relay #2 is normally closed and will open when the existing protec water temp switch detects an over temp condition. This will kill the engine if it starts to overheat.

I was originally going to use the oil pressure switch as well but when starting the engine it takes a few cranks to get enough pressure to open the switch so the engine didn't start right away. I just disconnected the wire at the oil pressure switch and capped it off.

I mounted a third relay as a spare. It's not connected to anything.


This may seem rather silly of me, but why would you want to automatically turn off the engine at 200 degrees?

It sounds like a good idea to protect the engine, but I'd say it's a "not so good idea" for the safety of you and anybody else in your boat.

It takes away the ability of the driver to survey the situation and decide whether to keep running the engine till it self destructs if necessary.

Take a situation where you're in the boat with serious medical issues like a heart attack for example.

The driver is headed for the dock/launch ramp where medical assistance is waiting but your engine temp hits 200 degrees and it shuts down about 1/4 mile from life saving help.

I guess you could say, "well I'm gonna die out here but don't worry, we saved the engine" or on the other hand " we cooked the engine but at least I'm still alive"   

It was built with the limp feature instead of automatically turning off the engine on low oil pressure or high water temp for a reason.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2019 at 11:55am
Well Ken, while you’re clutching your chest dying just pop open the dog box and jump the relay! Did I miss where it shuts off at 200? That’s a lil low, I’d step it up to at least 230.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2019 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by Orlando76 Orlando76 wrote:

Well Ken, while you’re clutching your chest dying just pop open the dog box and jump the relay! Did I miss where it shuts off at 200? That’s a lil low, I’d step it up to at least 230.

or cut ether wires at terminal 86.

At what temperature does the temp switch close? 200?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2019 at 12:44pm
I did give that some thought. What I considered is that during 1600 hours of operation my boat has never overheated or gone into limp mode (except when the old wiring had too much IR drop - long time ago). Although the scenarios you mention and others are possible I believe the risk is extremely low. It would be nice to have the limp mode feature still but without it I would rather save the motor.

My boat doesn't have the dash alarm/lights but for those that do it would be easy to replace relay #2 with a timer relay. You could set it to a few minutes so your alarm went off before it killed the engine.

I was also curious what the DUI does when the input voltage drops but I didn't experiment with that yet. It may start running crappy at some point which would give the driver a heads up. So all you would need is a voltage divider on the output of relay #2 that connects to the DUI wire.

According to skidim the switch closes at 210. For some reason I thought I had read somewhere it was higher than that. If it turns out to be a problem it's easy to disconnect unless of course I had a heart attack and crashed then it would be harder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2019 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:

Nice, clean installation. I like the dedicated relay for the DUI dizzy.

Installing just the first relay would be really easy since you have already done everything else. Just connect 87 to the dizzy without the second relay. I know how much you like projects! But if you want to protect that new roller motor I would install #2 also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2019 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by desertskier desertskier wrote:

I did give that some thought. What I considered is that during 1600 hours of operation my boat has never overheated or gone into limp mode (except when the old wiring had too much IR drop - long time ago). Although the scenarios you mention and others are possible I believe the risk is extremely low. It would be nice to have the limp mode feature still but without it I would rather save the motor.

My boat doesn't have the dash alarm/lights but for those that do it would be easy to replace relay #2 with a timer relay. You could set it to a few minutes so your alarm went off before it killed the engine.

I was also curious what the DUI does when the input voltage drops but I didn't experiment with that yet. It may start running crappy at some point which would give the driver a heads up. So all you would need is a voltage divider on the output of relay #2 that connects to the DUI wire.

According to skidim the switch closes at 210. For some reason I thought I had read somewhere it was higher than that. If it turns out to be a problem it's easy to disconnect unless of course I had a heart attack and crashed then it would be harder.


Good to know you gave it some thought

I've seen the switch listed in PCM literature as both 210 degrees and 200 degrees depending on where you look. It's the same part number for a ProTec engine and a GT40 engine.

If I wanted some kind of protection/warning from the oil pressure and/or water temperature switches, I'd probably wire both to relays that fed a loud, obnoxious horn to let the driver know there's a problem and he/she could turn the engine off or keep running it depending on the situation.

That way O-76 or whoever's driving wouldn't have to find the right relay and yank it and Pete wouldn't have to pull out his wire cutters and snip the right wire in the middle of a "not so good" situation.

I suppose in the end, it's whatever you're comfortable with
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