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2015 PCM ZR409 - Exhaust Manifolds - Overheating

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scotchipman View Drop Down
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    Posted: October-17-2022 at 4:39pm
My 2015 ZR409 exhaust manifolds are overheating then my boat goes into some kind of limp mode. My ZR409 has coolant in the engine block and fresh water in the manifolds with a heat exchanger in the rear. No engine light is coming on and the water temp is reading normal. What I think is happening is the exhaust manifolds are getting clogged up? When I pull the plugs on the manifolds I get a lot of debris coming out with the water that looks like silt or hard water that has been baked onto the inside of the manifold then has flaked off. This is the second time this has happened, the first time was only about 20 hours prior.

Do you think I'm correct in assuming that the overheating is due to the manifolds getting clogged? If so is there anything I can do beside pulling the four plugs and removing the debris? Could my issue be something completely different and if so what can I check?
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Jonny Quest View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2022 at 4:47pm
Check your email….
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchipman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2022 at 5:21pm
Thanks, got it!
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TRBenj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2022 at 8:59pm
Bleed the system?
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KENO View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2022 at 8:09am
Did Jonny cure your problem?

You should probably take the shotgun approach and post this question everywhere you can think off and give a little more info too Wink

Does a Centurion have the same instrumentation and alarm package that CC had that year?

What happens to your engine in this "limp mode" ?




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Jonny Quest View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2022 at 12:37pm
Scot is a long-time friend and lives nearby.  I offered to have him bring the boat over and we can do a more thorough evaluation.

JQ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2022 at 2:30pm
What does the engine manual say? Most of them have a basic troubleshooting/diagnostic section. Is exhaust manifold temperature even monitored/mentioned?
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KENO View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2022 at 5:28pm
2014 owners manual in the link. Doubt there's any difference


Some info on page 58 (and a few other pages too) Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchipman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2022 at 3:47pm
I used the boat yesterday with no problems, pulled 8 sets. I'm not sure if Centurion has the same alarm package as CC for 2015 but no alarm is going off or engine light coming on. When it goes into limp mode you can only idle the boat back to the dock, I won't power up back on plane.

I really think it is just a matter of keeping the exhaust manifolds free of the flaking debris, for whatever reason several of us that use our boats a lot exclusively at our lake are having the same issue. Our lake has around 1,000 ppm of dissolved solids in addition we have a lot of very fine sediment.

I plan to drain the exhaust manifolds more often and will see if I can run some fresh water through the system from time to time, hopefully this works. If not I will have to pull it out of the water and have Jonny look at it closer.


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Tim D View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2022 at 5:20pm
What's the ph level of the lake water?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2022 at 5:58pm
Do you have an Orange/Amber "service engine soon": indicator? It's for exhaust issues on the catalytic converter engines That would come on for an Exhaust Manifold Water Temperature high condition at about 220 degrees and in PCM's words the engine would derate itself..

There's also the Red "check gauges" indicator for engine related issues

I'd probably be talking to a Centurion dealer because it doesn't seem logical at all to go into a limp or protective mode without some indicator or horn being activated

Not going above idle is more of a "crawl home gasping for your last breath" mode than the typical limp mode.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchipman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2022 at 1:19am
The PH level is 8.5.

No warning lights of any color are coming on. Limp mode may have been the wrong description. Both times when it has happened I was skiing and not driving, I had the driver just idle back to the dock but the driver reported a significant loss in power which I definitely noticed while skiing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2022 at 7:44am
I get the impression from reading your thread on Centurion crew that you might think the catalytic converters have water flowing through them.

The only thing flowing through them is exhaust gas with a water jacket around the gas side.

I think the derate starts at 220 degrees and if it keeps going up to 225 it derates more.

Have you checked the manifold temps with an IR gun?

If it was my boat, I'd be finding out more about the protective system and instrumentation, but it's not my boat, ....... it's your boat Wink. A dealer or PCM can tell you something

What are the guys with the other boats with the same problem doing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2022 at 9:46am
Does the boat have the garden hose attachment on the back for flushing?  If the sun dries out the cap/cover a small crack in it can let air be pulled in the system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchipman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-21-2022 at 1:42am
Good to know there is no water flowing through the catalytic converters, I should find a diagram of the inside of the manifolds.

I have not checked the manifolds with a IR gun. The two times they have overheated you could smell them and when I dripped water on them from my wet gloves it would quickly boil off.

A 2015 ish 200 with a 6.0 just had the manifolds and a few other parts replaced for $6k, a 2008 196 with a 5.7 had the manifolds replaced as well for a much more reasonable cost. Other owners are draining/cleaning them out like me. I heard one owner took his to the car wash and shoved the power wash wand up the drain plug hole in and attempt to clean. The owner with the 196 just bought some starbright descaling engine flush he is going to try.

I have talked to a few PCM dealers and they are not helping much, they say bring it in and if we can duplicate it we might be able to fix it.

No garden hose attachment for back flushing on my boat currently but may put one on to run fresh water through the system from time to time.
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