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GT-40 hard start

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wetskier2000 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: GT-40 hard start
    Posted: February-19-2022 at 10:37am
Seemed to begin hard starting when the engine had been run and allowed to cool down for 15 minutes or so. I could start it by giving it considerable throttle. Now this has progressed to cold starts as well. Put in plugs, cap and rotor cuz they showed some wear/age. Didn't change it at all. Old plugs tell me fuel damp (not quite soaked) on the starboard side and 1 oil soaked on rearmost cylinder on the port side. Although, it's not really oil soaked on the portion in the cylinder, more on the exterior of the plug, but no obvious runny oil signs on the motor... Not sure how this is happening... 

Anyway, I suspect my main problem might be the fuel soaked plugs.... Injectors were rebuilt a couple years ago. Fuel management problem?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2022 at 11:16am
Injectors are still the likely culprit- can’t imagine what constituted a rebuild - but unlikely they are being driven open - more likely they are just dripping
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2022 at 12:35pm
Click on the link below for some reading.

He swapped lots of parts and when there was pretty much nothing left to do, he changed the injectors.............then he was happy  Wink

Fuel pressure regulator may be worth considering as a start, since it's cheaper and easier, but like Joe said, something's probably dripping/leaking

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2022 at 5:55pm
Here's the guy that serviced them... You guys could be completely correct.... afterall, they are 25 years old now and certainly don't owe me anything...

https://hurstinjectorservice.com/


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2022 at 8:10am
A quick search on NautiqueParts doesn't show injectors... Are they available?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2022 at 8:32am
You won't be able to afford any of those from a dealer- PCM is very proud of them. What you need are 24 pound injectors something like these- https://lmr.com/item/M9593LU24A-K/Mustang-Ford-Racing-24lb-Fuel-Injector-Kit-w-Adapters-86-04 they also come with the adapters you will need since the original connectors have been superseded. You can also do a google search for Ford 24# injectors look for the purple bodied ones 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2022 at 8:35am
Here is Nautique Parts listing- https://www.nautiqueparts.com/product/fuel-injector/   notice the price 223.55- that is each  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2022 at 8:14am
Anyone installed these on a GT-40? I'd sure like the be somewhat confident the parts fit before ordering them....

https://lmr.com/item/M9593LU24A-K/Mustang-Ford-Racing-24lb-Fuel-Injector-Kit-w-Adapters-86-04

thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2022 at 3:31pm
You can be about 101% confident Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-22-2022 at 8:21am
I ordered them up and will report back... thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-26-2022 at 4:18pm
The purple injectors are installed... I had to run the wires up over the fuel rails to accommodate the plug adapters, but no big deal (I hope). Before the wires were under the rails... Also should have listened to myself and used a little grease on the orings instead of the internet guy that used gasoline.. I tried using 93 Octane and it didn't work worth a crap... back to my method of a little grease and they slipped into the intake like a teenager into a cougar.

Haven't run it yet but will yard test for leaks, get it into the river and try it out then report back... thank again thus far guys....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-27-2022 at 7:59am
Originally posted by wetskier2000 wetskier2000 wrote:

.. back to my method of a little grease and they slipped into the intake like a teenager into a cougar

Might need a picture of this, maybe several   Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2022 at 6:50pm
Early signs are positive... We'll see what the next couple of weeks brings...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-06-2022 at 8:20am
Evaluations of the new injectors may come in slowly... My wife broke her toe shoving it into her binding over the weekend... She's on injured reserve for a few weeks (... and less than happy about it)...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-06-2022 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by wetskier2000 wetskier2000 wrote:

Evaluations of the new injectors may come in slowly... My wife broke her toe shoving it into her binding over the weekend... She's on injured reserve for a few weeks (... and less than happy about it)...

Sounds like you have a designated driver now. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-12-2022 at 8:17am
Pretty confident the new injectors have solved the hot start problem that also became a cold start issue... No signs at all of this symptom returning. I also pulled the plugs yesterday and every one looked fine. .... and the wife's toe is all healed up and she's skiing again... Happy wife.... well, you know...

thanks for all the help on this!!!

Next up, occasional crappy idle that wants to stall usually when the skier just said "hit it".... IAC??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2022 at 4:52pm
IAC seems to have fixed the crappy idle... All is well now... thanks for all the help once again, guys!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2022 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by wetskier2000 wetskier2000 wrote:

IAC seems to have fixed the crappy idle... All is well now... thanks for all the help once again, guys!

Good deal, Thumbs Up thanks for the follow up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2022 at 8:51am
... I'd say our 1997 GT-40 is at about 90-95% right now... crappy idle is fixed, hard start is fixed... really running pretty much new... Only remaining issue is that it's slightly harder to start than it used to be.. It's barely worth mentioning, really... But I think it cranks just a tiny, little bit more than it used to when new before it starts. I've had a fuel pressure gauge on it in the past and it always read withing spec, but I gotta wonder if the pair of 25 year old pumps with 1700 hours should just be replaced anyway......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2022 at 3:18pm
Easy test, turn the key on to the run position to prime the pumps, turn key off, turn key on once again right away and start the engine.  Did it start better?   If that fixes the slow start issue you are correct, your pumps are taking a little longer to pressurize or maybe your pressure regulator is leaking.   1700 hours is very good you must have been doing good maintenance over this long life.
Glad to hear you won the battle.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2022 at 7:41am
.... sorry for the misstep putting this in another thread... I've never been accused of being the brightest bulb on the tree.,,,

So if I have a steady idle with the regulator disconnected, it's the pumps? Are the pumps available? Will I need to refi my house?


Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by wetskier2000 wetskier2000 wrote:

... still starting a little slower than I think is normal... Finally checked the fuel pressure... Interesting results... 31 psi at first key on. 41 psi at second key on (not running). 35 psi running, but bounces from 31-ish to 39-ish along with a bouncing idle... Pumps, regulator, both??? thanks

Shouldn't you be back in your own thread like the one in the link? Wink


It's the one where you fixed your crappy idle.............temporarily I guess.

Just to see what happens, I'd probably remove the vacuum line from the pressure regulator and plug it, then see if you have steady pressure at idle and if it idles smoothly or bounces. It should be steady at 39ish +/- 3 or so with the regulator disconnected

The idle may still fluctuate due to being kinda rich with 39 psi but you'll at least know if the pressure stays steady with no vacuum signal to the regulator.

That may help you be able to decide on pump or regulator replacement or just do both at the same time.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2022 at 11:48am
If pressure is fluctuating with the regulator disconnected, the only thing that will make it do that is changing pump pressure. Engine vacuum won't make the regulator change positions.

If it's steady, then the pumps would seem to be doing their job.

How's it run at speeds other than idle? If it runs good with no issues, then the pumps must be delivering fuel like they should.

Replacements for both pumps are reasonable pricewise, to answer your other question.

Discount Inboard Marine prices add up to 250 for both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2022 at 11:14am
Ok, back on this... The idle with the fuel pressure regulator disconnected seemed improved... I ordered the regulator and both pumps anyway... Replaced the regulator... first key on gives 31 psi, second one (without starting) gives 41 psi... I suspect with these symptoms that I have BOTH a fuel pump and regulator issue. I will replace both of my 25 year old pumps. The one on the block (low pressure?) does not have a plug like the new replacement does. It appears to be just wired into the harness. There do not appear to be any markings on the new one for + or -.... Both wires on the new one are black... Old one had green/striper and black... How the heck do I wire this correctly?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2022 at 12:29pm
Old one.............green striped wire is positive, black is ground.

New one...........how about a picture looking straight down on the connections, along with brand and model number.

Or compare it to this picture  I took of a P4594 Carter pump, the terminal on the top has a teeny, tiny little (+) next to it and the other one has a( - ) symbol next to it. Pretty sure a P4389 is the same orientation but didn't have one close by to take a picture of.

You may have to look closely to see the symbols. Wink

That should maybe help take some of the mystery out of the job 





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2022 at 12:35pm
Sure enough!!! There is a teeny + and - I had not seen before... thanks!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2022 at 12:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-08-2022 at 2:29pm
Nice work once again Ken.  You are correct that family of Carter pumps use the same connector and they have that small + and -
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2022 at 8:09am
baby steps... Got the regulator in and the WX was too nice to continue on to the pumps and not ski... launched the boat and got in our last runs until FL in Feb. Then I pulled the boat and pickled it. I think the occasional crappy idle is gone, but time will tell. Its fooled me before.. I'm a little torn on installing the pumps now especially since the first test will be 1600 miles away in Feb... I thought about just taking them with us but installing them w/o my garage might not be the best idea either...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2022 at 12:06pm
I think I'd run the boat as it is now on your vacation since you know it runs and does everything OK except maybe the idle issue might or might not be cured

New pumps followed by first real water tests on vacation might make for a bad vacation
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