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GT40 FCC install - now will not crank

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    Posted: October-05-2021 at 8:43pm
I started asking about this install on nautique forum but I cant access that site at work so now that I have it installed I need some help.  I found the poor mans guide to GT40 engines and sounds like many people have had the problem I have.  So after installing the FCC it will not crank, this is what I did.

I have a 1995 Sport Nautique that when I bought it was told when you cut it off it will not crank back.  I have dealt with this for about 4 years and I finally bought the FCC ($780 from White Lake Marine after having been on back order all summer).  I mounted the unit and ran the fuel line directly into the bottom of the unit, and then the outlet on the side runs right back into the tank.  The long fuel line that comes with it goes from the high pressure outlet on top and into the fuel pressure vacuum regular at the back and into the rail, and then the short line goes from the rail and back into the FCC in the inlet.  I also have it wired into the wiring for the old HP pump and I have tested it with a multi meter and I have power going to it.

So after trying to crank it and it will not start, I started to loosen the high pressure outlet on top of the FCC and fuel sprayed out "under pressure" so I know it was on the right outlet.  When I undid the other, fuel just ran out but was not under pressure as it was coming back from the rail so I assumed it would not be under as much pressure.  

I have gone back over everything several times and it has to be right, but why will it not crank?  I have seen some videos that talk about relays and power issues, and that may be the case but I cant find the manual that tells what to check on the computer.  

I would love to figure it out before I have to send it off for a while.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2021 at 10:48pm
First, hook up a fuel pressure gauge to your fuel rail.  If you turn the key to run you should get pressure instantly and then the pump shuts off after 2-3 seconds.  This is normal if the engine does not start.  Don’t loosen connections to check pressure you may find a fire in your boat.
You keep saying it will not crank.  Crank means the engine turns when you hit the start on your ignition key.   
I suspect you are saying the engine turns over but does not start?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flash3102 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-06-2021 at 6:44am
Yes you are correct, it turns over but does not start.  After I posted this I found a good post about checking pressure so I will try that.

Thanks, Ill let you know how it goes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flash3102 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-06-2021 at 4:32pm
So I found in another forum a link to this video:


and it said to do it just like this.  Well.....in this video the pressure regulator is at the back of the rail and leads back to the gas tank.  I have the fuel line from the tank running into it, should the fuel pressure regulator be the last thing before the fuel returns back to the tank?  I may have the lines backwards.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-06-2021 at 5:12pm
You're right..........you have it backwards Wink You probably have pretty much no pressure at the injectors.

Click on the link below and look at the diagram on page 3H1.


It's not exactly like yours,since it's the earlier no FCC system, but you'll see how things hook up and the fuel pressure regulator is after the fuel to the injectors so that it maintains the right pressure behind it for the injectors

it's really written for the OMC King Cobra version of the GT40 which had some fuel system differences from the PCM version

Think of it as a backpressure regulator that dumps excess fuel to the FCC

If only PCM or Nautiqueparts could actually write up a set of instructions for their "kit"  I think they've done one of these before

SkiDim has a pretty good easy to understand set of instructions...........it's called a you tube video. Click on the link and your questions should all be answered


If you have any questions, call Vince and tell him you bought it at nautiqueparts but you need his help Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flash3102 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-08-2021 at 7:24pm
KENO you hit the nail on the head!  i switched the fuel lines and it fired right up......but it wont stay on.  It will hesitate and almost cut off then kick back in and then cut off.  From what little I know, there is not enough fuel pressure, i am going to go buy a fuel pressure gauge tomorrow, and I know how to do it, i just dont know how to adjust it if it is low.  

One thing that concerns me is that even though it immediately cranks and runs for a little bit before it cuts off, it makes a "yawing" noise at first, and it seems to be coming from the back and on the drivers side of the boat.  It only does it for like a second and I was going to video it just now but it was too dark.  

Thanks again for the advise! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2021 at 6:34am
Sounds to me like maybe you have air in the system and need to verify that the FCC is full

Your pressure gauge should tell you if you have a nice steady presure of about 39 plus or minus 3 ish with the Key ON Engine OFF (KOEO). or if it's fluctuating all over the place.

You can ground the STO connector on the engine to make the pumps run continuously otherwise they'll shut off after a couple of seconds and you have to cycle the key again to make them run for another couple seconds

Click on the link below for some discussion of making the pumps run continuously. It has a picture of the STO connector and how to jumper it.

You need the Key On Engine OFF when doing this jumpering to provide power to the relays


I'd do what I could to verify it's full, put the jumper in and check the pressure.

Like mentioned above KOEO about 39 Plus or minus 3 or if the engine is idling it should be about 31 plus or minus 3

I should also mention that your fuel pressure regulator is "non adjustable"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flash3102 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2021 at 8:06am
I read that post you linked and some things stood out to me.

First, what you said about having air in there makes sense.  Changing the fuel lines and having tried to crank it with the lines reversed it may have air in there.  That would make me think it is running like it is.

As far as the post goes, when I was troubleshooting the issue to begin with, I took my voltmeter and checked the connection from the old pump to the new FCC with just the key in the on position and I was getting about 5 volts.  The battery was putting out 12.4 I think it was, but I only had the wires twisted together with no wire nuts on them.  I put wire nuts on them and made sure there was a good connection and there was, but was still only getting about 5 volts.  So I undid the wiring just to be safe and left it until I could work on it again.

Last night I reconnected the wires (without wire nuts) while trying to crank it and that was when it would run for a minute or so and cut off.  When I called it quits because it was getting dark, I actually tried to listen to the pump come on for those few seconds when you turn the key....and I did not hear it, so then I got confused.  

So I would be out there now making sure the wiring is connected and with wire nuts to confirm a good connection, listen for the fuel pump to come on, and check the voltage.  However, it is pouring rain and is supposed to all day.  If there is a break in the weather I will check all of that, and still plan to check the fuel pressure.

Question:  how to I eliminate the air in the FCC if there is any? 

Also, thanks for your help!  I usually do not have success with forums because people treat you like you should know everything and if that was the case, people like me wouldn't use forums.  This is how we learn, like with changing out impellers.  I learned how to do it myself and now I help out my lake friends by changing theirs for them.  I'm learning something new everyday!  Plus saving me $120 an hour labor charge......Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2021 at 8:46am
PCM literature usually says to cycle the key several times to fill the FCC and it will vent back to the gas tank.

The STO connector jumper will run them constantly and will do the same thing.

I'd probably disconnect the return line going from the FCC to the gas tank and use a temporary line to a container to observe the fuel flow being steady and air free, then hook things back up normally again and check fuel pressure

PS........use some weatherproof type crimp  connectors on the wiring  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flash3102 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2021 at 12:38pm
So we have had a break in the rain and i bought a fuel pressure gauge and did some work.

It did worse today than yesterday.

So I took the fuel line off the outlet that returns to the tank and tried to bleed the air/fill the FCC with fuel and got barely any fuel to flow out of the outlet.  I just kept turning the key to the on position over and over and got some dribbles but that was it.  

I also hooked up the pressure gauge and got like 6 psi......it would go up to about 8-9 when trying to crank it but it would only turn over, not crank.

I also checked the voltage.  When the FCC was hooked up, it would not read anything (with the key in the on position).  I undid the wiring and checked the voltage from the source and this is the picture, I only got about 6.5 volts and the battery is fully charged.

I am thinking I am not using the correct power source for the FCC.  If you look close in the picture, the green and black wire that I am using was hooked up to the red and black wire that was hooked to what I thought was a fuel pump that I was bypassing.....Ill take a picture of that and add it to this post.  

**I thought I could post a picture but I cant figure out how to here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flash3102 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2021 at 12:41pm
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Agd90ztPCw8hgagKDa4tOzJrhdkYvA

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Agd90ztPCw8hgagLXRvDo7J08Xz0PA

The first pix is hooked up with key in on position, the second pix is the original power source for whatever that silver thing is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flash3102 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2021 at 1:19pm
So looking closer at it, the old pump that is black and cylindrical and has "pressure" written on it was plugged in to a green and a black wire that has about 6.5 volts suppling it and the silver thing in the picture that is under it and is where I am using the old wires for the power supply is also running about 6.4 volts.  I "think" i am using the wrong power source therefor the FCC is not getting 12 volts which is why the pressure is so low and its not cranking???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2021 at 2:59pm

Looking at your second picture, you don’t have your low pressure pump plumbed up in line with the high pressure pump canister. That has to pump fuel to the high pressure canister. Unless you installed another low pressure pump.

The wires that went to you black cylinder thingy (old high pressure pump) should feed power to the new HPP through the top of the new canister thingy. 
The set of wires in you second picture needs to power the low pressure pump that I assume you installed in front of the new canister thingy (new high pressure pump) under the alternator.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2021 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:


Looking at your second picture, you don’t have your low pressure pump plumbed up in line with the high pressure pump canister. That has to pump fuel to the high pressure canister. Unless you installed another low pressure pump.

The wires that went to you black cylinder thingy (old high pressure pump) should feed power to the new HPP through the top of the new canister thingy. 
The set of wires in you second picture needs to power the low pressure pump that I assume you installed in front of the new canister thingy (new high pressure pump) under the alternator.


Gun_driver

You should probably look and see what they sell for a kit these days. The LP pump is on the side of the FCC canister.

Click on the link


You should probably watch the SkiDim video in an earlier link while you at it too Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flash3102 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2021 at 5:23pm
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Agd90ztPCw8hgagMXtBE4jq8Gx0ThA

I have already installed the new FCC, its the wiring for the power that I think I am having a problem with.  The old pumps are are of the picture.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2021 at 5:46pm
Flash.............call that number that somebody PM'd to you Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2021 at 6:38pm
Guess I never thought someone would leave all the old system still mounted oh well. 

A picture is worth a bunch of posts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2021 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

Guess I never thought someone would leave all the old system still mounted oh well. 

A picture is worth a bunch of posts.

Umm........give him a chance, he ain't done yet Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flash3102 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-10-2021 at 9:22am
I sent you a private message KENO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-10-2021 at 10:08am
Replied earlier this morning, check your PMs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2021 at 6:03pm
A little birdie told me that Flash had a good day on the lake today with no restart issues when warm Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flash3102 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2021 at 6:57pm
Sooooo.....let me tell you how this went!  If nautique would have just put in a plumbing diagram of the fuel lines I would have never had a problem.  I watched the youtube video of the FCC install and even paused it and took notes and hooked up the lines just like he said.  Somehow I still managed to get the lines backwards.  I replaced the relays and some fuses and check alot of stuff.  When it was all said and done, boat still wouldn't crank, I said "the only thing to do is reverse all the fuel lines.  When I did, it cranked right up and has run like a champ since!  A lot of thanks goes to Keno who helped me through the process who didnt redicule me for not knowing hot to do this since I was born like I have had people do before.  He is the nicest dude on here!  I thought I would make a video that explains it and shows it in detail on a motor that is in a boat so maybe it will help others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2021 at 7:30pm
👍🏻👍🏻
And kudos to KENO aka “the nicest dude on here”.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2021 at 8:09pm
Ahhh shucks 

I seem to think some guy named Jonny fits right in that same category along with plenty of others. Don't go and  get all RED faced now JQ  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2021 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by flash3102 flash3102 wrote:

A lot of thanks goes to Keno who helped me through the process who didnt redicule me for not knowing hot to do this since I was born like I have had people do before. 

+1 on Ken. Way to go Lee glad you have it going. You've only been on here 12 days - you'll find everyone here is helpful, between the group it will get done. A video is a great idea,can't understand why PCM does not include instructions. Does not seem they concern themselves with any kind of support of our older equipment. I for one am interested how the wiring worked out is it plug and play or do you have to do some splicing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flash3102 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2021 at 8:33pm
The wiring was easy, as a matter of fact, the video that was on youtube about the install, the easiest part to understand was the wiring.  All I did was cut the wires from the old pump and connected it to the new unit and it had power.  

One thing that was curious to Keno and myself was that when you use a jumper on the relay to get the FCC to continuously run, it didn't.  I read several places online and Keno also said that if you use a jumper for the FCC on the relay that it would run even without the key on and not cut off after a couple of seconds.  Mine only ran about 2 seconds just like it does when you turn the key on.  I took a picture of the way I was jumping it and Keno said I was doing it right, so that has sort of stumped us but once I got the fuel lines in the right place it didnt matter.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2021 at 6:16am

This was the jumper, bypassing the relay completely unlike the STO jumper that needs the key on.

He was checking to see if the relay was bad by sending power direct.

And like he said "a mystery for now"

And like he said, the wiring part was easy, Vince explains that and shows it very well in the video.

This "kit" and their Pro Tech replacement "kit" have about equal quality "instructions"

You'd think the dealers who sell them and presumably have installed at least one before, could write something up.

At least Vince at SkiDim made what I thought was a good video that was helpful 

Flash did all the hard work here, getting the fuel lines sorted out Wink
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