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time for new Manifolds

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    Posted: September-28-2021 at 7:17pm
Well our boating season is over for the most part, so today was the day I decided to tear into it and replace my leaky exhaust manifolds. I am so thankful for PB blaster. I soaked all 16 of the allen head bolts 3 days ago and just let them sit and soak. To loosen them I cracked them each just a tiny bit, then retightened them down, until each one had been cracked loose. Then I went through and backed all 16 out successfully with NO broken bolts or stripped heads. YES! 

. I am now just filing down the painted surfaces of the new manifolds to get rid of all the paint, and any burrs, etc that may be on the mating surfaces.





You can see on this last photo where this manifold was leaking from..alll along that rusty line on the bottom side.  I sure wish the new manifolds said PCM Marine Engines like the old ones. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2021 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by flyweed flyweed wrote:

  I sure wish the new manifolds said PCM Marine Engines like the old ones. 


Here ya go Wink
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2021 at 7:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2021 at 7:53pm
Keno’s is better LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2021 at 8:55pm
Nice. I'll have to order those decals.  I ordered the new Manifolds from Nautique Parts as well, so we hoping they would still come with the PCM logo on them..guess not. Oh well. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2021 at 9:51pm
They haven't had those raised letters in years-that's why they have those style decals. Your old manifolds had individually cut for each letter decals. On a side note- your new manifolds are even different from the ones I bought just a year ago and I know they were back ordered awhile ago,wonder if they changed who's casting them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-29-2021 at 9:14am
yeah, I ordered my manifolds in June..got them first week of August! I knew they were backed up, which was fine. I knew I wouldn't be doing the job until Fall anyway.

Quick question, should I sand those areas on the engine where the exhaust manifold gasket goes? or just wipe down good?   Also, does anyone know if there are "torque specs" for the new manifold, or just tighten down, warm up engine and check for leaks and keep tightening?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote uncle-buck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-29-2021 at 11:09am
Torque spec for the exhaust manifold bolts is 20 ft. lbs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-29-2021 at 12:27pm
Uncle Buck..thanks for those specs......do you happen to know if it lists what the torque specs are on the 4 bolts that hold the exhaust riser on top of the manifold??


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-29-2021 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by flyweed flyweed wrote:

yeah, I ordered my manifolds in June..got them first week of August! I knew they were backed up, which was fine. I knew I wouldn't be doing the job until Fall anyway.

Quick question, should I sand those areas on the engine where the exhaust manifold gasket goes? or just wipe down good?   Also, does anyone know if there are "torque specs" for the new manifold, or just tighten down, warm up engine and check for leaks and keep tightening?


Just make sure the surfaces are clean and smooth with no chunks of the old gasket stuck to them.

Depending on which PCM literature you refer to, the torque spec varies, you can find a range of 18-24 ft lbs in one manual, so Buck's 20 ft lbs is sorta midrange. It's a pretty generic chart

If you want to make the installation easier, you need a couple of studs to help you out (no not me and Pete Wink)

Here's a picture of the studs. These were 3/8-16 bolts 6 inches long with the head cut off. Screw 'em in and put the gasket on and slide the manifold on.  Put in some bolts and then take the studs out 

Helps keep your spark plugs in one piece if you're doing it with them installed, and is a lot easier on your arms.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-29-2021 at 12:38pm
Here's one answer on the riser bolts in the link

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pjsmoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2021 at 7:07pm
Use to go to an old mechanic when I was in high school. Watch him install exhuast manifolds on a engine that way. Definitely old school. Great tip!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tomahawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-15-2022 at 12:17pm
I am planning on ordering new manifolds for my 76 SN. One side is leaking the other not. I figured I might as well do both. PCM ford 351W. Anything extra outside of this thread that I should be looking for?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-15-2022 at 1:10pm
A couple of manifold to engine gaskets if they don't come with your order and 16 new bolts.

If you use Felpro  MS90000 gaskets, Felpro will tell you to install them shiny side out in their directions 


Ski Dim sells them cheap in the link below  If you look close, you can read 90000 stamped into the gasket in their picture They say shiny side in. 

Who's a guy to believe? 

Probably doesn't really matter much which way they go, but I'd believe the people who make them


You can find stainless allen head bolts or regular carbon steel like the originals.

One last thing you need is some good luck. Some people have all kinds of problems getting all the bolts out without breaking them or cutting the heads off, using torch heat etc and others find them kinda loose and have no problems.

I'd check ahead of time using reasonable force, so you'll have an idea what you're in for 

Maybe you'll get lucky like flyweed did Wink  His were probably about 17 years newer than yours


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-15-2022 at 10:11pm
I just installed the felpro that Keno speaks of.  I put the felt side to the inside and shiney side out. We shall see how they fare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2022 at 7:53am
I am the OP of this thread, and the replacement was pretty straight forward.  I HIGHLY suggest you soak down your current manifold bolts with some PB blaster, or other lube and let it sit..then use a large/long socket and just "nudge" the bolt so it cracks loose a tiny bit...spray some more lube in and loosen just a tad more...then once you have the bolt backed out maybe a half a turn, tight it back up a half a turn, you just want to break ALL of the bolts loose before you remove them. This keeps the manifold flat against the engine surface, and takes away the chances of any "warping" of the manifold to lock the other bolts into place, at it keeps the manifold flat against the engine.   Then once all bolts are cracked loose and sprayed down, you can now start to remove them.  Once off, make sure you clean the engine mating surfaces of all old materials.  I  also used 2 bolt "studs" to line up my new gaskets and manifolds to slide on easier and keep everything aligned. It worked great.   

Dan

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tomahawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2022 at 8:37am
Thanks Keno and Flyweed. I ordered the parts and give the first shot of PB blaster to the bolts. I don't want to break off any bolts so I will be following all the advice. I will report on my adventure when the time comes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2022 at 8:52am
I fired my motor yesterday and found out I need too take my port side manifold to the machine shop to plane the face true.  The rear port blew the gasket upon startup.  I can see now with my trained eye (Geek) that the face is not like its supposed to be.  Live and learn.  Sorry to hack the thread but thought I may as well update my situation since I chimed in earlier!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2022 at 7:31pm
Tomahawk, yes, you want to just crack all the bolts first, and work them a little each way, don't rush it. that way you'll remove all the bolts without breaking one.   Your new bolts will be Stainless steel with your new manifold gasket set.  Make sure you put your manifold gasket on the correct way, as there is a "engine" side and a "manifold" side to the gaskets.  Torque them down to the correct specs and then put it in the water and start up the engine and check for any leaks. IF there are any drips, you can torque your bolts down a bit more until it stops. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NCH20SKIER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2022 at 6:30am
The use of the bolts can sometimes also be referred to as weekend marriage saving device.............

[/QUOTE]

Just make sure the surfaces are clean and smooth with no chunks of the old gasket stuck to them.

Depending on which PCM literature you refer to, the torque spec varies, you can find a range of 18-24 ft lbs in one manual, so Buck's 20 ft lbs is sorta midrange. It's a pretty generic chart

If you want to make the installation easier, you need a couple of studs to help you out (no not me and Pete Wink)

Here's a picture of the studs. These were 3/8-16 bolts 6 inches long with the head cut off. Screw 'em in and put the gasket on and slide the manifold on.  Put in some bolts and then take the studs out 

Helps keep your spark plugs in one piece if you're doing it with them installed, and is a lot easier on your arms.




[/QUOTE]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tomahawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2022 at 12:34pm
Now about something totally about looks and no functional use. I want to paint them to match the original green and I want to grind down the two raised circles where the PCM decal would go. Is there a functional reason why this is a bad idea?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2022 at 5:55pm
I think that if you grind those flush, you may end up with a manifold with no functional use..........but it'll look good except for the holes you may end up with.  

I figure that they're core/casting/freeze plugs in those holes, depending on what you want to call them and if you grind the bosses flat there won't be much of anything for those plugs to seal against and they'll fall out or leak.

If you look at the same spot on the backside of your old ones, you might find what look like a couple of holes that were filled in and somewhat smoothed over

I could be all screwed up.............. or maybe not Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tomahawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2022 at 8:29pm
Thank you KENO. I didn't think of a frost plug. I guess the appearance will have to take 2nd place. I will confirm by checking through the end plug. I am now curious why the original didn't have it and now they do. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2022 at 6:19am
Originally posted by Tomahawk Tomahawk wrote:

Thank you KENO. I didn't think of a frost plug. I guess the appearance will have to take 2nd place. I will confirm by checking through the end plug. I am now curious why the original didn't have it and now they do. 

Oh sure...............now we have to call them freeze/frost/casting/core plugs to cover all the bases.Confused

I figure maybe they changed suppliers over the years and/or saw enough instances of manifolds cracked right along the bottom corner and had the plugs added to maybe help with a freeze situation.

What are you using to match the original green paint?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2022 at 7:35am
You could trim the stickers to fit around the plugs.  Wouldn’t be perfect but not many but yourself would know!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tomahawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2022 at 7:46am
Trimming the decal was suggested. It will work and you are right, only I will notice. Still doesn't mean I wouldn't rather spend a lot of time fixing something that no one will ever notice. 

Sorry to add another term KENO. I wasn't looking at the post and couldn't think of what they were called. Also as for paint I am going to first try a rattle can of Grabber Green engine paint. I bought it yesterday but didn't have a chance to check it to see how close the color matches. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2022 at 8:11am
We can probably come up with a few more terms for those plugs. They've all been used at times over the yearsWink

Try some Krylon 1932 if your Grabber Green doesn't match.

It's one version of John Deere green and matched my 76 manifolds pretty closely. It's darker than the Grabber Green.

Here's a link to an old thread with some discussion and pictures of the green manifolds and some bonus talk about the blue engine color too


There were some different shades over the years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tomahawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2022 at 8:24am
OK, I will get some Krylon 1932 too. see what matches better. If it matched your 76 then I don't doubt it will work for my 76. I saw your picture from that post and it looks like I will be going that way. I am getting excited for spring. I figure I have a month until the ice out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2022 at 8:32am
Hope it works out for ya'

Lots of missing pictures in that thread that would have been good for comparison purposes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2022 at 8:43am
I wish I could have purchased OEM manifolds that still had the PCM Marine Engines stamped into the manifolds. When I ordered my new ones this past summer they told me that indeed the replacement manifolds were a different manufacturer as well as a different manufacturing process. So whatever that's worth.  If my new ones hold up as long as the old ones did, I should be good. (28 years before the old ones rusted and started to leak). 



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