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    Posted: July-28-2021 at 12:51pm
I've just replaced my cutlass bearing and got a new ARE drive shaft for my 87 Ski Nautique 2001. 

The old shaft was pretty bent so it made it a little harder to tell if the strut was out of alignment too.

Upon installing the new shaft, it is much more clear that the strut is out of alignment. The new shaft is contacting the port side of the shaft log. It does look like it has clearance and is not touching the bottom of the shaft log. I'm assuming I would need to add a washer to the stern - starboard bolt between the strut and the hull.

Admittedly, I know little about washers/bolt measurements. I understand from reading here, that I need one that is ideally no more than 0.05" thick. I know the diameter of the hole in the washer needs to be large enough for the bolt to pass through but is there a certain size diameter washer that is ideal? 

How much 5200 do I put on the base of the strut - cover the whole thing? Thanks for any other thoughts/tips.

Brian




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2021 at 1:54pm
Brian,
Looking at the picture, it looks like you most likely won't need washers/shimming. There's a good chance there's enough play in the bolt holes to move the strut. Get the strut off, clean it and the hull up and then do a dry fit. Do put the forward end of the shaft on some blocking to support it in the shaft "happy spot" in the cutlass. 

Go 4200 and bed the whole base of the strut. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigBM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2021 at 2:35pm
Thanks, Pete! 

I'll start there removal/cleaning with a dry fit and go 4200 if it doesn't need any washers. Will support forward end of shaft when testing to find that happy spot with the cutlass.

Any recommendations/tips on tools/methods to clean all that old stuff off of the strut base and hull?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2021 at 3:05pm
Brian,
A sharp chisel will get most of it off. Then the best for the strut base is a wire wheel in a bench grinder A wire wheel in a drill for the hull and then the strut if you don't have a bench grinder. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigBM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2021 at 9:47pm
Sounds good. I can definitely do the wire wheel in the drill. At my folks lakehouse for vacation and they don't keep a whole lot of tools around. I will likely take the strut off before we go home and clean it and bring it back along with a wire wheel for my drill so it may be a while before I have an update. 

Thanks for helping me get started!Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-29-2021 at 12:17am
I replaced my shaft and had to adjust my strut 7 years ago.  The strut on mine was off center and too low.  I used washers as shims, picked up 20 at the local hardware and then went home and used a micrometer to measure each.  They varied from .55 thick to .95 thick as I measured I just wrote the size on them with a sharpie.  My local Ace Hardware had washers but none as small as you mentioned at .05 thick.  On install I played with the sizes till I had the right combo to get the shaft in place and happy.
I used 5200 since that is what Nautique used.  It is harder, not sure it it is stronger but I think it is.   4200 is easier to work with and not as hard to remove if you ever do this job again.  Your choice on that one.
Finding the shaft happy place is not hard.  You start at the strut and set the angle so it points direct at the center of your output shaft on the tranny.  You will have to lift the shaft so the weight of the shaft does not make it sag and drag.  Many use a short piece of 2x4 for this, about 3-4" long, cant remember.  I cut mine to fit  and added a V cut in the top to set the shaft in.   The floor is sloped so as you slide the 2x4 forward and back you can align it to the engine.  Most important at this point is that the shaft has the least amount of drag in the log.  If you lift or lower drag will increase.  Go left or right, drag will increase.  The spot with the least drag means the shaft is going straight as it passes through the strut.  If it is crooked it drags.   Properly aligned you have the least amount of drag.  Should be able to easily spin your prop with one finger properly aligned.  ( and the log lubricated, spray some WD 40 or a soapy water mix in there so you lower the drag)
It does take time but is not hard.  Good Luck
I used a Automotive gasket scraper to remove all the old 5200 from the strut mount area, with a rubber mallet it comes right off quick and as Pete suggested a wire wheel on a grinder to clean up the strut.  

On install just use plenty of the 5200 or 4200, once it is seated and tight just take a scraper and remove the excess quickly before it sets up fully.  Work quickly as it sets up pretty fast.
Good Luck

Edit:  if you do add washers you will need more of the 4200 or 5200 to fill the gap and seal it properly against leaks so use plenty.  I had 3 washers at the rear of mine to make it right, once the 5200 hardens you are golden, it is glued in place and sealed against leaks. It won't move again till some poor sap bends another shaft and has to peel it off.   We hope that never happens again.
Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigBM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2021 at 10:27am
Mark, thanks for sharing your experience. That's good to know about the various thicknesses in washers you encountered. I think I've been able to find the spot with least resistance for the shaft and when I did lift it just a tiny little bit to get that spot, as you and Pete mentioned, it was no longer in contact with the lower port side of the shaft log. Still a little close for comfort to the side of the shaft log but it spins freely in its happy spot. 

I'll probably take the strut off and clean it up and do some test fitting and see if I need to add any washers. Will use plenty of 4200 or 5200 if I do end up adding the washer(s).

Thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2021 at 12:43pm
Once the srut is set the final step is to align your engine to the coupler.  The have to be under .003 there are posts advising how to do that part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigBM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2021 at 7:15pm
Perfect. Yeah, I've tried to do the engine alignment a couple of times in the past and I've been pretty terrible at it. I think my adjustments are usually too much and then I have to go back and forth a lot. Anyway, there was local guy that used to have a marina that was a big 2001 fan and owned one as well. He helped me get it straight the last time and had it at .003 or less. He moved and sold the marina so I may be saying a lot of expletives when the time comes for me to line it up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2021 at 11:05pm
There are tricks to make the stubborn mounts move for you.  I’ve been lucky and able to get down to .0015 without too much effort when needed.  Go in to it expecting 2 hours work and be happy if you do it any faster.
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I feel your pain.  The first time I did an alignment, it felt like I was chasing my tail.  I watched a couple of YouTube videos and that helped me out.

I would recommend that you have the engine mounts prepped with a 50/50 solution of acetone and ATF. You want the mounts to move freely.  Make sure that the adjustable nuts are ready to be turned.  The up / down movements with the nuts makes vertical adjustment easier in fine increments.  The left / right movements can be a bit more of a challenge.  I've used a big pry-bar on one side...then a tap or 2 on the opposite side with a small sledge hammer often helps the side-to-side movement.  

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Sounds good. Yeah I figured I'd be in for a couple of hours at least on the alignment and be happy with anything less or really anything more if I can get it where it's supposed to be. I've been watching some YouTube videos that cover it and all the mounts on my engine move freely and I've got a big pry bar to work with for the side to side adjustments

Got some 4200 today and now I just need to go hunt for some flat washers. Planning on going to the hardware store and getting an assortment to make it more likely that I get the right size. Got in a hurry with the fam while leaving the lake and didn't measure the bolts before coming back home. I'm assuming I should go with stainless steel ones. 

After the strut is off and cleaned up and the hull too, any tips/tricks for checking alignment of the strut when dry fitting or trying different washers? Assuming the shaft will have to come out again for strut removal then go back in when checking strut alignment and support it with wood block in front of shaft log. My new driveshaft was sort of a beast to get pushed through the new cutlass bearings. Maybe needed to lubricate them more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-02-2021 at 12:03am
Originally posted by BigBM BigBM wrote:

My new driveshaft was sort of a beast to get pushed through the new cutlass bearings. Maybe needed to lubricate them more.

Squirt some water with dish soap onto the drive shaft and let it lube up the strut bearings.  The shaft really should turn by hand -- if not, something is wrong.

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I'll give the dish soap a try. I put in 1" I.D. X 1-1/4" O.D. bearing/bushings. They were a little tough going in, as expected, but nothing crazy. Wiped out the inside of the strut without the bearings before installing the new ones. Didn't feel any burs or rough places and after install of the new ones, no obvious bulges or uneven spots. Put the set screws back in and snugged them up and everything looked clean looking through the strut with the new bearings. Hopefully the dish soap/water will help.
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Stainless with lock nuts.
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Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

Stainless with lock nuts.
+1
stainless set screws with LocTite
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Thumbs Up Got it. Thank you both!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2021 at 5:55am
Originally posted by BigBM BigBM wrote:

I'll give the dish soap a try. I put in 1" I.D. X 1-1/4" O.D. bearing/bushings. They were a little tough going in, as expected, but nothing crazy. Wiped out the inside of the strut without the bearings before installing the new ones. Didn't feel any burs or rough places and after install of the new ones, no obvious bulges or uneven spots. Put the set screws back in and snugged them up and everything looked clean looking through the strut with the new bearings. Hopefully the dish soap/water will help.

I'd be taking the set screws out and with the shaft out of the strut, checking to see if you bulged out the cutlass bearing just a tiny bit with the set screw tightening. Just enough for example to make the shaft hard to insert and hard to turn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2021 at 1:27pm
I used Red Lock tite on my set screws so they would stay in place without being really tight.  If they ever need to come out I will have to apply heat to release the locktite.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigBM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2021 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by BigBM BigBM wrote:

I'll give the dish soap a try. I put in 1" I.D. X 1-1/4" O.D. bearing/bushings. They were a little tough going in, as expected, but nothing crazy. Wiped out the inside of the strut without the bearings before installing the new ones. Didn't feel any burs or rough places and after install of the new ones, no obvious bulges or uneven spots. Put the set screws back in and snugged them up and everything looked clean looking through the strut with the new bearings. Hopefully the dish soap/water will help.

I'd be taking the set screws out and with the shaft out of the strut, checking to see if you bulged out the cutlass bearing just a tiny bit with the set screw tightening. Just enough for example to make the shaft hard to insert and hard to turn.

Yes, thank you! Will do that. I wondered that as I got to thinking about the extra resistance I encountered when putting the shaft in. Will also recheck my installation on the cutlass to see if I see or feel any abnormalities inside.
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Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

I used Red Lock tite on my set screws so they would stay in place without being really tight.  If they ever need to come out I will have to apply heat to release the locktite.


I'll put that on my list to pick up when I go washer shopping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2021 at 4:28pm
The shaft logs were not that straight from the factory, as long as the shaft does not rub in the log and the shaft lines up with the tranny you are good.
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Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

The shaft logs were not that straight from the factory, as long as the shaft does not rub in the log and the shaft lines up with the tranny you are good.

Getting the popcorn ready LOL🍿
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Okay, back at the lake this weekend, just for the day unfortunately.

Got the strut off and in the process of cleaning it up and the hull. I got some stainless washers in case I need to add any and some 4200.

Thought of 2 questions...

1. Do I put any 4200 on the bolts themselves that go through the hull and hold the strut or just count on the good bit of 4200 that I put on the base of the strut to work its way in there when I tighten them back up

2. I made a mistake and tightened the set screws on the strut too much and I think that was causing my drive shaft installation difficulty. With the set screws out, it move easily and without much effort. I can see a very slight inconsistency in the cutlass rubber where the set screws were. Does this mean that I need to take out the new cutlass bearings I installed an replace them?

If so that's okay. I'm willing to eat the $70 - 80 to replace the new ones I messed up with newer ones LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-08-2021 at 5:03pm
1........  a little on the threads also never hust anything

2......spend the money on something else.  Wink   no need to remove what's there, tighten the set screws less and if you're worried about them falling out a little loctite will help. I'd go with some medium strength stuff.
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Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

1........  a little on the threads also never hust anything

2......spend the money on something else.  Wink   no need to remove what's there, tighten the set screws less and if you're worried about them falling out a little loctite will help. I'd go with some medium strength stuff.

Perfect. Thank you!

Yeah, the shaft spins easily without the set screws now and I got some medium strength loc tite when I bought my stainless steel washers.

2 washers (1 on each of the right side bolts between strut and hull) puts it pretty close to center in the log.

Off to smear a bunch of 4200 on the strut base and a little on the bolts and get it set up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigBM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2021 at 8:05pm
Just wanted to give an update. Put the new shaft in after shimming the strut on the starboard side with washers and letting it dry. Got the prop lapped on following Pete's process, put the rudder back in and got motor lined up and put it in the water. No leaks around the strut mounting bolts and the prop shaft spins pretty easily by hand when I grab the couplings and spin it. Thumbs Up

Just wanted to say a big thank you for all of the expertise here. I really do appreciate it. 

I did notice water coming in the bilge but not from and expected area, unfortunately. Pic below. There's a leak in the starboard side of the bilge - 4-5 inches from the shaft log. I don't see any obvious areas on the hull below. Any ideas about what it is or the process to fix it? Water is seeping through where you can see a chip out in the pic and running down toward the shaft log.

I also noticed from that picture that a steering cable that I had the local marina replace is incorrect - based off of the part number on it - Seastar cable SSC6217 - a 17 foot cable from what I can tell and not the 17.5 foot one I need from Nautique. I'm assuming that would explain why I can turn very aggressively to starboard but much less maneuverable to port? Going to try and have a chat with them and see if they can replace or work with me to sort something out. 

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Originally posted by BigBM BigBM wrote:

 

I also noticed from that picture that a steering cable that I had the local marina replace is incorrect - based off of the part number on it - Seastar cable SSC6217 - a 17 foot cable from what I can tell and not the 17.5 foot one I need from Nautique. I'm assuming that would explain why I can turn very aggressively to starboard but much less maneuverable to port? Going to try and have a chat with them and see if they can replace or work with me to sort something out. 


Since you have the "not exactly optimum cable" in there now, you can adjust your steering throw to be equal in both directions by loosening the clamp block and moving the guide tube to give you less steering angle to starboard and more to port, tighten things up and then take the boat for a ride.

You'd have to shorten the guide tube to the same length as a 70's tube for this to work and use the full travel of the cable you have right now. The long tube and short throw cable you have right now limits things a bunch.

With the shorter tube and the short throw cable, it won't turn quite as sharp at low speeds, but it's plenty drivable.

You may like it, or you may decide to go for the longer throw high buck cable, but if you shorten the tube and don't like it,...... well you're screwed  Wink and need a new tube for the longer original cable

Easiest solution is to pay more money and get the CC "special" cable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigBM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-24-2021 at 11:58am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by BigBM BigBM wrote:

 

I also noticed from that picture that a steering cable that I had the local marina replace is incorrect - based off of the part number on it - Seastar cable SSC6217 - a 17 foot cable from what I can tell and not the 17.5 foot one I need from Nautique. I'm assuming that would explain why I can turn very aggressively to starboard but much less maneuverable to port? Going to try and have a chat with them and see if they can replace or work with me to sort something out. 


Since you have the "not exactly optimum cable" in there now, you can adjust your steering throw to be equal in both directions by loosening the clamp block and moving the guide tube to give you less steering angle to starboard and more to port, tighten things up and then take the boat for a ride.

You'd have to shorten the guide tube to the same length as a 70's tube for this to work and use the full travel of the cable you have right now. The long tube and short throw cable you have right now limits things a bunch.

With the shorter tube and the short throw cable, it won't turn quite as sharp at low speeds, but it's plenty drivable.

You may like it, or you may decide to go for the longer throw high buck cable, but if you shorten the tube and don't like it,...... well you're screwed  Wink and need a new tube for the longer original cable

Easiest solution is to pay more money and get the CC "special" cable

Thank you! I'm thinking I'll probably just go with the Nautique cable. They mentioned putting in an adapter for the current cable when they installed it a while ago, which should have tipped me off but I didn't know as much then. I'm assuming that I can just remove that from the steering head and plug/thread the Nautique cable in without it?

Also, what is involved in shortening the tube? Cut with hacksaw or cutting wheel and how much? I've pictured how they had it installed below...looks like they have it as far to the stern as it'll go. 

Now to figure out how water is getting through in the bilge - maybe some delamination or water leakage from beneath near the shaft log?

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You'll see a picture of the long and short tubes in the link below on page 24.

Short one is 10.5 inches and long one is 13 inches (see page 23 of the same link)

Hacksaw or angle grinder works fine.

link

Water could have found it's way there through the leaking rudder port which has a wood reinforcement that maybe is delaminating some.
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