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No spark / running out of ideas

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Jimscorpsewhale View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimscorpsewhale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2021 at 6:46pm
There is a spacer but not the original one.

I used this one https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetor_components/carburetor_gaskets_adapters_and_spacers/adapters_and_spacers/parts/4945
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimscorpsewhale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2021 at 6:47pm
I still don’t have the timing light yet. The weather is a mess
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Gary S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2021 at 8:11pm
Pretty sure this is what Ken is thinking about. You could have a vacuum leak.

https://www.amazon.com/Edelbrock-2732-Carburetor-Adapter/dp/B000630JXY/ref=asc_df_B000630JXY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309898128610&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7484433107131671709&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9011877&hvtargid=pla-569638733036&psc=1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2021 at 8:17pm
Vacuum leaks. I recall on my A&P troubleshooting test for the license, working on an A-65 Lycoming and the examiner hung the updraft carb about 1/4 off of the manifold. It started and ran fine. I saw what he’d done and pretended not to notice and we both started to laugh at about the same time. Neighed of us could imagine it would even start let alone run up fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimscorpsewhale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2021 at 8:56pm
Ah. I put an new spacer and gasket on. I don’t remember finding any specific torque specs for the carb. I’m also not sure if there is a gasket between both the intake and the spacer and the spacer and the carb... what’s the correct setup?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2021 at 7:24am
Originally posted by Jimscorpsewhale Jimscorpsewhale wrote:

Ah. I put an new spacer and gasket on. I don’t remember finding any specific torque specs for the carb. I’m also not sure if there is a gasket between both the intake and the spacer and the spacer and the carb... what’s the correct setup?

Is your Mr Gasket spacer smooth on the bottom like is is on the top, or does it have funny passages like your old original spacer?

If you're not sure, take the carburetor and spacer off and look at it. (and take a picture to post here)

You should have a gasket between the intake and the spacer and another one between the spacer and the carburetor.

You could have a giant vacuum leak depending on your gasket arrangement and what the bottom of the 1 inch spacer looks like



What works good on the Performer intake is using the flat plate like Gary mentioned with no 1 inch spacer at all.

The plate is needed because of the small, thin seating area on the Edelbrock 2181 manifold.

You would have  a gasket between the manifold and the flat plate and another between the plate and the carburetor.

The PCV hose connection can then be plumbed into the threaded hole in the manifold behind the carburetor. You remove the pipe plug and get a fitting for the hose to hook to. It's in the runner that feeds the #4 and 7 cylinders.

Some people will say that the PCV gases going there will lean the mixture to those 2 cylinders, some will say no problem at all, Plenty have run  that way for years with no issues Wink

It keeps the height down also when you don't use the 1 inch spacer. The Edelbrock manifold is around an inch taller than the stock one so your height is about the same as original

Before worrying about this stuff though, try starting it with a shot of gas down the primary throats like mentioned earlier so see if it kicks over and runs meaning that your timing is at least close to where it should be. When Mother Nature allows of course Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimscorpsewhale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2021 at 4:10pm
I have some home repair that’s gonna trump the boat this weekend due to the ice.

I’ll definitely put some gas down the primary throats in the carb before I do anything else.

A “shot”. Literal measurement?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2021 at 7:13pm
See the little yellow cap on the spray can, about that much gas is good and it should fire. You might have to repeat a few times or so to get the fuel system primed so it'll stay running.

I use my finely calibrated fingers and a plastic squirt bottle to squirt about that amount in the carburetor  WinkImage result for pb blaster
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2021 at 7:42pm
Along with Kens calibrated fingers, one of these works great:




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Keep it original, Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimscorpsewhale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2021 at 3:39pm
So I have the timing real close. I used the camera on my phone in slo mo while I was cranking and I am right at 6 degrees btc. I put some gas down the primary jets and it seems like it’s trying to kick over. I get some intermittent bumps in the cranking speed that I think indicate it’s getting some help from the engine kicking over.

I haven’t pulled the carb yet to look at the spacer. It’s mr gasket 4945. I have gaskets on both sides. From the images I can find online i don’t think it has any passages but I can’t be sure.

I had to put it away this afternoon as it started raining. I think I’m close any other suggestions are highly appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2021 at 5:43pm
Dang.  That sure sounds like the dizzy is 180 degrees off.  At 10 degrees BTDC, it should fire right up...quickly.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimscorpsewhale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2021 at 5:45pm
I put a compression gauge on it and as the rotor came to the number one cylinder fire position I was making compression
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2021 at 6:11pm
How about spitting out your firing order going counter clockwise around the cap?

Just want to verify what you have. Kinda like a quiz Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimscorpsewhale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2021 at 7:12pm
I went out just now and ran them to be sure.

1-8-4-5-6-2-7-3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimscorpsewhale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2021 at 7:13pm
To be sure we are speaking the same language. The front of the starboard bank is one right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2021 at 7:24pm

Congrats, you passed the quiz and here's the cylinder numbering for the 351W Wink




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimscorpsewhale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2021 at 7:44pm
So I guess I should pull the carb and check the spacer? It’s a mr gasket 4945. I don’t think it has any passages but I’m not too sure. I definitely have gaskets at both mating surfaces. Anything else i should check or try?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2021 at 7:53pm
It's probably flat and smooth on both sides but it wouldn't hurt to check the spacer just to be sure there's not a vacuum leak path 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2021 at 8:15pm
Have you checked your fuel quality?  Maybe you have water in it.  That will keep an engine from running.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimscorpsewhale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2021 at 5:47pm
I’m not sure how I would gotten water in it... it’s been in the garage all winter. Is there any easy way to test for it?

I was thinking about adjusting the idle screw and the idle mixture back to how they suggest it’s set during initial install....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2021 at 6:13pm
Did you fill the tank? Did you add stabil or fuel stabilizer? If you leave a lot of room in the tank, as the air cools, moisture in that air will condense and sink to the bottom of the tank. Of course that’s where your fuel pickup is located and those first few draws to start the boat are fuel in the line but then it’s quickly fed that water you’ve condensed. Water in fuel causes carburetor icing in small recip aircraft which is why pilots sample their fuel (from the bottom of the wing tank) to make sure there’s no water there; which there often is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimscorpsewhale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2021 at 7:09pm
It’s got stabil in it but it’s not full
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2021 at 7:56pm
I don't think I'd worry too much at all about water, unless you're dumping water down the carb throats to get it to kick over and run some Wink

I think the first mention of how you have the carburetor adjusted just came today, so how is it adjusted?

I also think that three pages later,with lots of detours, it's time for a quick synopsis of what's been done so far to the engine. I'll get you started, feel free to add anything else.

It sounds like you put on gt40 heads, an Edelbrock 2181 Performer intake, a new carb spacer and new plugs and wires .

You thought you didn't have spark, but you really did, at least with the new DUI distributor.

You got a free replacement module from DUI Wink

You verified the rotor spins CCW so the engine is turning the right way.

Timing is now around 6 degrees BTDC and you can see this with the timing light as you crank it over. You're on the compression stroke

You dumped some gas down the carb throats and it sounded like it was trying to start

Did you do this a few times?

Since you mentioned having a compression gauge, what do you have for compression in all your cylinders.

Send me your video of the timing if you want   keno439@gmail.com will get it to me


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2021 at 8:03pm
I'm with Ken -this thing is not even firing with gas dumped down the intake. It should fire that way even if there was no carb on it. Unless someone has changed all his gas in his cans and tank with water LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2021 at 8:12pm
100% agree
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimscorpsewhale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2021 at 9:17pm
I pulled the carb off to look at the plate and in doing so I found something stupid I had done.  The carb has a nipple on the back of it and I plugged the hose that goes to valve cover into it instead of into the spacer.  That would give me a bad vacuum leak right?  I'll put it back together right and give it another try.

The spacer is almost entirely smooth with one area that has a little carve out with Mr. Gasket printed in it.  

Thoughts on keeping the spacer or getting rid of it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2021 at 12:16am
Yes on the vacuum leak.

Your studs are the right length for the spacer so stick with it as long as the plate is flat on the bottom too.

Probably 1/8 inch pipe threads in the spacer hole. Plug it with a 1/8 inch pipe plug preferably or cover the nipple with a rubber or vinyl cap

Then give it a whirl  Wink

PS timing video looked good
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimscorpsewhale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2021 at 6:27am
Thanks for checking the video.

The other side to the spacer is completely smooth.

The original set up had the hose that runs to the valve cover plumbed to the fitting on a different spacer and the fitting on the back of the carb capped. Just curious but does it matter?

Also the fitting where the hose enters the valve cover it rubber and pretty worn. I wonder if I should eventually replace the valve cover as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2021 at 7:36am
Either fitting will work, pretty much your choice of what to plug and what to use.

The other end of that hose should have the PCV valve in it and the valve fits in your worn rubber fitting, it should be good for now to see if you get it running since it ran before the work was done
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimscorpsewhale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2021 at 8:09am
Lots of the boat seems bonded by age/grime. The valve definitely seems far looser than when I broke it free from its mooring. I think it’ll be fine in the short term but it will likely need to be replaced.
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