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351 harmonic damper oil seal surface dead or alive |
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Ian H 
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Joined: September-24-2020 Location: Hong Kong Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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 Topic: 351 harmonic damper oil seal surface dead or alivePosted: December-23-2020 at 10:09am |
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Hi, I am restoring a 1991 sport Nautique with a 351w PCM engine, Long block is on the way.I I am in Hong Kong so parts are not available and I am struggling to find a new harmonic damper so looking carefully at the one i have taken off.
It looks like there is a steel insert in the end of nose where the surface is good. Does the oi; seal run on this shiny   surface or on the rusty area behind it? Would be a bonus if I could use it until the right one tuns up on Amazon with free delivery Ian  |
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GottaSki
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Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3327 |
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Posted: December-23-2020 at 10:55am |
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don't yet see why it needs to be replaced
I suggest clean the surfaces carefully and send it
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
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MrMcD
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Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3590 |
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Posted: December-23-2020 at 1:16pm |
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Lightly sand with 600 grit wet and dry paper. Rotate constantly to avoid flat spots and smooth the surface. The steel sleeve is covering a previous groove in the shaft. You can order new spedi sleeves and replace yours. Seals will wear a groove in the shaft as they age, if the groove gets deep the seal starts leaking.
National, SKF, or Timken offer Spedi sleeves.
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MrMcD
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Posted: December-23-2020 at 1:17pm |
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Fel Pro also sells them.
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KENO
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Posted: December-23-2020 at 6:43pm |
 I'm having a hard time figuring out your pictures, it looks like you took pictures of 2 different harmonic balancers.
Here's a picture of a 351W harmonic balancer with the red marker line showing where the lip of the seal rides. It's about 1/2 inch in from the end so you could polish yours up like mentioned and see what the surface looks like in that area. |
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Ian H
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Posted: December-24-2020 at 8:46pm |
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Thanks very much, that's very helpful, I feel a bit more confident to clean it up and use it again. (two pics are of the same balancer just with different light thanks for taking the time to mark the read line!)
The balancer has a number C90E-6318-E2 it is three bolt with a lip for the pully. I am a bit confused as looking around seems Ford used this just from 1963 to 69. but the boat I have is 1991 so I am wondering if it is really the right one replaced at some point with what they had or did PCM use the 3 bolt for longer?
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Gary S
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Posted: December-24-2020 at 10:25pm |
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Ian you are getting confused with the Fords automotive vs industrial divisions. Marine was under the industrial side so the years are different even though many of the parts are the same but not always. Confusing eh? PCM's parts book shows 3 bolt damper used through '93 then the 4 bolt '94 and up so your good. Would not be surprised if you had a 4 bolt damper and pulley that they would not interchange anyway. You could use anything as long as the pulleys and belts for the accessories line up and the balance of the damper match.
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Ian H
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Posted: December-25-2020 at 6:47am |
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Gary
Thanks for the clarification, I have had a careful look at the balancer I have, looks like the speedi sleeve is on the very edge of the seal, digging a groove and probably needs replacing. So I want to replace the whole balancer, to be sure of no oil leak trouble later. I have a long block and a raft of engine parts on the way form the US shipped all together price is not so painful. I can find a direct replacement on Ebay but shipping is painful at just over 100 usd for a 140USD part. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mustang-Other-Ford-Harmonic-Balancer-351-Windsor-1969-ACP/193240121712 I can get free shipping from Amazon to Hong Kong and but the same part is Unavailable. But similar 3 bolt parts are there Like https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C8T7UO/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 Any way to find out if I could use this it looks very similar but used on 4.0l motors I think ? or just bite the bullet and pay the shipping.  Thanks
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Mpost
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Joined: July-05-2018 Location: Monticello, MN Status: Offline Points: 323 |
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Posted: December-25-2020 at 8:55am |
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Not an expert here, but how hard would it be to remove the old sleeve and put on a new one in the correct location. Seems it might be worth a try VS $100 shipping on a new part.
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84 SN Sold 98 SN Lund Pro V 1975 Alumacraft
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Ian H
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Posted: December-25-2020 at 10:43am |
 Fair comment, this is the best photo I could get looks like grove is just beyond the speedi sleeve, I have an empty 20' container and bags of tools next to the boat and no easy access to a workshop so I need to improvise a lot but if it needs any kind of machining I will be at a dead end. I think I will start by seeing of I can get the old sleeve and see if it looks like I could get a new one further on to cover the full area of the seal. Looking on the internet seems heat should help get the old one off. I will give it a try and if I fail then put my hand in my pocket for the sure thing direct replacement. (Speedi sleeve is also not cheap 35-45 usd seems typical) Thanks again for the help Ian  |
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SNobsessed
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Posted: December-25-2020 at 10:51am |
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A long shot suggestion - If you could find or make a bushing that fits tight to (original) OD & has sharp ID corner, you might be able to tap-move the sleeve to where it covers the seal contact area.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
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KENO
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Posted: December-25-2020 at 11:08am |
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Ian
You could look at RockAuto.com for speedi sleeve prices and part numbers from a few different suppliers. Pretty cheap before shipping, but I'd bet you can find one on Amazon with free shipping. One part number for the sleeve is National 88187 Use a 67 Mustang with a 289 and a manual transmission (the transmission doesn't matter for the front seal, but it does if you happen to be looking for some other parts for your PCM 351W marine engine (like a flywheel or a ring gear for the flywheel) They can be removed with heat like you already found. A couple of early caveman tools like a hammer and chisel work good with the heat to make removal pretty straightforward  The tough to read 6318 is really 6316 in the casting number The damper you referenced above ATP 102008 will work on your engine if you decide to go the new damper route. Another choice would be a Dayco PB 1008N that you can find on Amazon for around 81 bucks with free shipping too Here's a picture of a Ford damper and a Dayco PB 1008N. The only difference is that the Ford has a raised center lip that the hole in the crankshaft pulley fits around and the Dayco doesn't have the lip. Neither does the ATP. The Red pointer is pointing at the lip. You can also see the lip in your last picture of your last post. You can center the pulley pretty easily with the 3 mounting holes and the load on the pulley isn't big so it'll stay centered during use. In other words....it works just fine  |
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Ian H
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Posted: December-25-2020 at 10:01pm |
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Thanks that’s really great information. I will have a go to shift the speedi sleeve, if not I now know what I can buy at an ok price.
Really appreciate your time to help! I hope that’s the end of harmonic balancers and I’ll be back on itchy stringer replacement! I’m sure I’ll be back for more help. Ian |
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MrMcD
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Posted: December-26-2020 at 4:45pm |
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Since your damper is old I think replacing with a new part is a good idea. The rubber in the damper ages if the engine is used regularly or parked, a new unit will fix you seal surface and offer better harmonic vibration protection. Spedi sleeves come in stainless steel for wheel end use or std steel for internal engine use. Fel Pro or Pioneer would offer the internal engine std steel and they cost much less. Since they seal oil rust is not an issue and they work fine. Part of the expense on the stainless Spedi sleeves is material, part is an installation tool that comes with the expensive stainless version. A metal cup used to tap the seal in place.
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Ian H
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Posted: January-11-2021 at 4:27am |
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I took your advice and bought a new balancer at the reasonable free delivery to Hong Kong price, using the no flange option, by coincidence I bought a new 3 bolt pulley too (chrome was just a biproduct honest
 ). Unlike my old rusty pulley the new one has a location flange which fits inside the no flange balancer so centring is all taken care of. Thanks again!  |
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KENO
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Posted: January-11-2021 at 10:47am |
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It's a little hard to tell from your picture, but I think you'll find that the chrome pulley isn't the same depth as your original rusty one. That means that your belt alignment will be way off. The original is 2.83 inches deep and 6.125 inches in diameter. Yours looks quite a bit deeper since the harmonic balancer next to it is about 3 inches total depth and it's taller than the balancer is in your picture. Don't throw the old one out yet
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