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Losing tach

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DVskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-24-2020 at 6:25pm
Yeah my gateway box is on the fantail. Pete know where that is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-24-2020 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by Tbarile Tbarile wrote:

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Maybe it's a terminology thing

Your 02 has Teleflex gauges right? Maybe your 02 has a box with a different name like "black box" Wink

DV Skier has an 04 with a Chevy and I'd figure Faria gauges so he may have a Faria gateway box in a different spot.




I originally had teleflex gauges but had to swap them out for the Faria because they stopped working.

Not that it really matters but was it just the tach and speedometer that got swapped or all the gauges?

I suppose if it's your black box that's the problem, you'll be spending lotsa bucks, probably enough to make you twitch Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-24-2020 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by DVskier DVskier wrote:

Yeah my gateway box is on the fantail. Pete know where that is.

What are you boating in? I didn't know you have a large yacht were the stern overhangs the transom! 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DVskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-24-2020 at 9:23pm
Aft bulkhead. Was on a cruiser 547’ 55’ beam.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbarile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-25-2020 at 8:24am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:


Originally posted by Tbarile Tbarile wrote:

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Maybe it's a terminology thing

Your 02 has Teleflex gauges right? Maybe your 02 has a box with a different name like "black box" Wink

DV Skier has an 04 with a Chevy and I'd figure Faria gauges so he may have a Faria gateway box in a different spot.




I originally had teleflex gauges but had to swap them out for the Faria because they stopped working.


Not that it really matters but was it just the tach and speedometer that got swapped or all the gauges?

I suppose if it's your black box that's the problem, you'll be spending lotsa bucks, probably enough to make you twitch Wink


Only changed speedo and tach
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbarile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-25-2020 at 3:48pm
Out of curiosity. If the voltage isn’t going to change, only “twitch”, how will I see this? Wouldn’t I have to be focused on the VOM the entire time while driving? If so, that’s not realistic as I need to be watching how I’m driving through the course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-25-2020 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by Tbarile Tbarile wrote:

Out of curiosity. If the voltage isn’t going to change, only “twitch”, how will I see this? Wouldn’t I have to be focused on the VOM the entire time while driving? If so, that’s not realistic as I need to be watching how I’m driving through the course.

You want to look for low voltage. The PP's don't like low volts and the reason I suggested getting a reading. Don't worry about the twitch. I should have never brought it up. I only mentioned the twitch when I said there are times when I actually prefer an anolog gauge. Again, for you to get a voltage reading, you can use ether a digital or analog. Again, don't worry about the twitch. Put that out of your mind! 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-25-2020 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by Tbarile Tbarile wrote:

Out of curiosity. If the voltage isn’t going to change, only “twitch”, how will I see this? Wouldn’t I have to be focused on the VOM the entire time while driving? If so, that’s not realistic as I need to be watching how I’m driving through the course.

You want to look for low voltage. The PP's don't like low volts and the reason I suggested getting a reading. Don't worry about the twitch. I should have never brought it up. I only mentioned the twitch when I said there are times when I actually prefer an anolog gauge. Again, for you to get a voltage reading, you can use ether a digital or analog. Again, don't worry about the twitch. Put that out of your mind! 


You're probably smart enough to realize that "Twitch B" seems to have danced all around the questions you asked Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DVskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-25-2020 at 5:49pm
 Twitch is not a valid electrical term. Never heard it in over 4 hours of formal training.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-25-2020 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by DVskier DVskier wrote:

 Twitch is not a valid electrical term. Never heard it in over 4 hours of formal training.
4 hours!!!  LOLLOL That doesn't surprise me at all. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DVskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-25-2020 at 9:07pm
Actually 4 years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbarile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2020 at 9:51am
So voltage when running was 13.3-13.7. When we lost rpm signal it was 13.2-13-3. Really didn’t change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2020 at 9:59am
Originally posted by Tbarile Tbarile wrote:

So voltage when running was 13.3-13.7. When we lost rpm signal it was 13.2-13-3. Really didn’t change.

 Where did you get the reading? If where the PP is getting the volts at the helm, that's a good reading.

Regarding PP's and low voltage, there are several threads on members having to upgrade their wiring up to the helm due to voltage drops affecting their PP's. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbarile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2020 at 11:52am
I got the reading off the back of the tach, PP has a 6 pin connector so there isn’t a place to pull from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbarile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2020 at 8:55am
Any other suggestions out there? I’ve thought about trying to bypass the rpm wire and run it straight from the ecu but can’t figure out how to do that with it being in a connector.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DVskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2020 at 9:13am
Have you tried calling Perfect Pass tech support? They always help me graciously when I have any issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbarile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2020 at 9:51am
Originally posted by DVskier DVskier wrote:

Have you tried calling Perfect Pass tech support? They always help me graciously when I have any issues.


Yes, they say it’s not a PP issue because the tach is losing rpm signal as well. They say there is something causing the rpm signal to be lost, possibly a short in the rpm signal wire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2020 at 9:59am
Originally posted by Tbarile Tbarile wrote:

  Yes, they say it’s not a PP issue because the tach is losing rpm signal as well. They say there is something causing the rpm signal to be lost, possibly a short in the rpm signal wire.

Todd,
Check and clean all the connections in that wire. If there's any connector plugand sockets, open them up and take a close look. Use dielectric grease when reconnecting.

BTW, it's not a "short" but it would be an intermitant "open". Many misuse the term "short". 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2020 at 11:07am
Always gives me a chuckle as well Pete. The tachometer circuit is on page 6-4 of the gt40 service manual
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2020 at 12:18pm
I don't think you really care if it's an open or a short or a twitch or spike or whatever that's causing your issues as long as you get it fixedWink

Looking back, I don't see that you unplugged the PP and drove the boat to see if the tach malfunctions  with PP unpowered.

I'd do that, so you can say for sure that the problem is not in the PP or the tach, then you can look at the diagram (Fig 6-4) that's been referenced a couple of times by a couple of different people.

Only you and the PP guys know what you have for a PP setup, but I figure they could tell you how to pull the tach signal from upstream of the "black box" and power it from the battery too. 

They had PP for GT40's before they had the digital gauges so there must be a way to get that signal relatively easily.

The tach signal starts at the coil, goes thru the 22K resistor and your 8 plug connector along with the associated wiring to get to the black box.

You really don't know that it's a power loss at all and going by your voltage numbers from the other day, it doesn't appear to be. 

It looks a lot more like a signal loss, but I think you already know or suspect that Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DVskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2020 at 12:47pm
The tach signal is the grey wire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbarile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2020 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:


I don't think you really care if it's an open or a short or a twitch or spike or whatever that's causing your issues as long as you get it fixedWink

Looking back, I don't see that you unplugged the PP and drove the boat to see if the tach malfunctions  with PP unpowered.

I'd do that, so you can say for sure that the problem is not in the PP or the tach, then you can look at the diagram (Fig 6-4) that's been referenced a couple of times by a couple of different people.

Only you and the PP guys know what you have for a PP setup, but I figure they could tell you how to pull the tach signal from upstream of the "black box" and power it from the battery too. 

They had PP for GT40's before they had the digital gauges so there must be a way to get that signal relatively easily.

The tach signal starts at the coil, goes thru the 22K resistor and your 8 plug connector along with the associated wiring to get to the black box.

You really don't know that it's a power loss at all and going by your voltage numbers from the other day, it doesn't appear to be. 

It looks a lot more like a signal loss, but I think you already know or suspect that Wink



I have not disconnected the PP as we always use it for skiing through the course and that’s the only time we run the boat. PP said they pull their Rpm separate from the tach so they are “confident” it’s not a PP issue...

I should have been more clear. Is there a way to tie into the grey wire back at the ecu without cutting it so that I can run a wire directly to the tach and PP? I assume the 8 pin connector is plugged into the bottom of the ecu?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2020 at 7:48pm
Maybe you should unplug the PP and go for a ride............call it troubleshooting to try to find your problem Wink

You got a wiring diagram for your PP?

The 8 pin connector is at the back of the engine and connects the engine harness to the boat harness that goes to the dash.

You can find the gray wire right there and it runs up to the dash area.

The 8 pin connector doesn't connect to the ECU.

Withoiut a diagram of the boat wiring, black box and it's connections, I don't think anybody is gonna come up with any suggestions.

If you can't get an answer from PP, try calling Jody at Florida Inboards in Panama City FL with your problem, he does plenty of work with  PP 

Here's a link below to some of his info

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbarile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-29-2020 at 2:16pm
Let me start by saying THANK YOU to everyone for their responses.  I'm sure it can be extremely frustrating dealing with a guy that hasn't worked on this stuff before.  I'm a quick learner but haven't played around with the engine/wiring too much.

I left Jody a message so hopefully he calls back.

I haven't been able to run the boat with PP disconnected due to weather but I will try it.

In the meantime, I crawled behind the dash and push dielectric grease in the connector but struggled to find the other connections back in the engine.  Is this grey wire the tach wire?

Thanks again for helping instead of banning me from this site!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-29-2020 at 4:23pm
Todd,
Have you looked for this 8 pin? 

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

The 8 pin connector is at the back of the engine and connects the engine harness to the boat harness that goes to the dash.

Remember, you just don't want to add the dielectric grease to them. Make sure the male and females ends are cleaned up first. You what to look for corrosion that may be the source of the tach problem.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbarile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-29-2020 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:



Todd,
Have you looked for this 8 pin? 

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

The 8 pin connector is at the back of the engine and connects the engine harness to the boat harness that goes to the dash.

Remember, you just don't want to add the dielectric grease to them. Make sure the male and females ends are cleaned up first. You what to look for corrosion that may be the source of the tach problem.




I can’t seem to find it. There are quite a few things all wrapped up in tape. Anyone have a pic of where exactly it should be?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-29-2020 at 6:04pm
Big 8 pin plug right behind the starboard valve cover near bellhousing area


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-29-2020 at 6:09pm
That grey wire originates up here at the coil but also goes thru a 22K resistor then the 8 pin plug then to the dash

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-29-2020 at 6:40pm
Todd,
If you do find that any connector needs cleaning, I've found that pipe cleaners work great on the female sockets and a Scotchbrite pad works on the male pins. On terminals and studs, the Scotchbrite works great on them too. 


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