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New to me 72 Skier

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2023 at 4:39pm
Got another 24 hours at the farm working on the boat. All we need now is an engine. Our mechanic got married last week and has been on his honeymoon so we haven’t heard back as to whether our block is good or not. We have gone through three bad ones, all cracked in the exact same spot on the back of the water jacket, hopefully the fourth is a charm. We procured this fourth block out of a 1978 Ford van… so hopefully water damage isn’t an issue.

This trip we put the snaps back on the back of the boat for the rear seats. Put snaps on the rear seat cushion. Also stapled down the outside of the Nautolex and put some trim rubber molding in to give the floor a more finished look where the floor meets the gunwales. Repaired some of the aluminum trim on the doghouse as well as started installing the hinges. Won’t finish until the engine is in. Also mounted the front seats to the floor and installed the kickplate and did a little more wiring. Got the stuffing box done too

Next up (other than engine), batt cables, fuel line, batt box, shaft and prop, new rope minder (we got an original one from another cc owner!!).













78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2023 at 11:59am
Still waiting on the engine. Painful. Hoping to get it in the water this season so we can work some kinks over the winter. Pushing our engine guy.

Got the rope minder replaced and it looks great. Very happy. And picked up the rear seat cushion with the correct tabs on it.

Hope to do some real work on the boat in the coming weeks. We will see.



78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2023 at 6:01am
Can't wait to see this thing in person. You guys have done a fantastic job bringing this  one back to her Glory Days!! Cool
"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-21-2023 at 10:41am
WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!  Very Nice !!!!!!!!
1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens
2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S.
1968 Ski Nautique, Project.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-21-2023 at 11:40am
Looks really good.  I like that new clearance bar much better!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2023 at 6:11pm
Engine is back from the shop.  Cross your fingers.  We are hoping to put it all back together in the coming weeks and give it a go.  Will probably be more like months.  But currently we are trying to order a bunch of parts.  Hoping for some advice.

Hoses:  Going to order a bunch of new hoses.  Looking at SkiDim and NP.  Thoughts on the 3" corrogated exhaust from Marine Parts Source...seems very economical  http://marinepartssource.com/exhaust-hose-slang75?gclid=CjwKCAjws9ipBhB1EiwAccEi1BUSJYNaJ6ZK_AvV6ZD6trIzANWCxgYJEDKY-R95C3r3Gr3DHVv8ZxoCwE8QAvD_BwE

On the distributor.  I think it is a Mallory.  What wires do I need from ski dim (or should I try the yellow ones we have…not sure of their age)...I see mention of mallory under the 454 wires.

Is there a source for the nipple for the fuel overflow for a flame arrestor?  Or anyone want to trade, we have quite a few plain ones, some nice copper ones.  





78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2023 at 6:56am
I've used that Vetus hose from MPS. 

It's a little thinner wall thickness than the MPI stuff and it bent a lot easier than the 35 year old stuff that was getting replaced.

You can also find Shields hose at about the same price. Here's an example in the link


A little Ebay surfing can find some good prices too

The distributor...........it's Mallory and it's marine. If you need springs for the flyweights, they're next to impossible to find for that age and model, but I think I might know this guy......................Wink

Me being kinda cheap, I'd probably at least start with the yellow Mallory wires that you have now. 

For a good, cheap distributor cap look for OMC 982209 on Ebay. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohio 93 snpb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2023 at 1:26pm
where did you get nautolex for floor,looking to replace mine in 73 skier

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2023 at 10:13am
Do a quick google search and chose retailer for the best price.  We used Nautolex Shark.  It looks good.  Think we ordered from Defender Products.  Amazon has it too.  There are lots of online sources    
78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2023 at 1:43pm
Got the ancillary engine parts painted and are starting the reassembly process.  We did hit a slight snag.  We were adjusting the dipstick tube to go around the exh manifolds and it broke.  It is a press fit tube that was loose enough that we could easily take it in and out.  We were going to try to fix it and re press fit.  Now we are trying to come up with a solution for the broken tube.  
 
After researching, I think they are the same as an old Bronco pan.  I just can't seem to find a dipstick that looks the same as the one we have so I would love some help  Thoughts on replacements?

That said, the one we have seems long as compared to the one on the Ski Tique (the tube and stick could be equally longer which I think would be fine, just need to confirm the length of stick inside pan).  We may need to take a trip to the Ski Tique winter garage (somewhat of a pain) and measure how far in the stick goes, total stick length and exposed tube length.

We have another tube that is a screw in...Could we tap the hole on the existing pan?  

Were tubes/sticks for 302 and 351 the same?  I don't think the pans were.   

Hoping to get this thing put together in the coming months but weekends are non-existent until after thanksgiving.  



Ignore the valve cover cap. We have a vented version that is painted.


78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2023 at 6:01pm
How about a picture of the pan that also shows the dipstick hole?

I assume that's the old press in tube  on top of the bellhousing and the pretty ugly kinked and bent screw in one in the metal tray.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67 ski nat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2023 at 8:47am
Gonna look amazing on the water
Beautiful craftsmanship
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1980SN2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2023 at 12:12pm
Amazing work and a beautiful boat! I am envious of your shop. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2023 at 7:25am
Ken. You are correct on both. Our pan is a press fit with a square metal plate surrounding the dipstick hole. Not sure I have a close up.
78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2023 at 4:32pm
I don't think you can drill out the push in style plate and thread it but depending on how/where your push in tube is broken, there are a good number of push in tube replacements of various different lengths, or do what's described below.

The tube itself is a piece of 3/8 steel tubing from any auto parts store, sold as brake/fuel line/transmission cooler line. You get a straight piece longer than what you need and cut the ends off and bend and cut to length as necessary

You'd have to figure out how to put the rib in the tube like in the picture so that it can't go too far into the pan or do what I mention below


I've used a 3/8 collar with a set screw to act as the stop and brazed on a mounting bracket to make my "custom" dipstick tube before. The collar will be a little higher up the tube than the location of the rib. I can think of other ways to do this too.

You get the measurements for how far the dipstick goes past the tube from the old setup.

You'll have no trouble figuring out all the the measurements/collar location and figuring out where to put the mounting bracket Wink

A little oil resistant RTV under the collar will be a good seal to prevent any leakage.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2023 at 8:33pm
Had a night at the farm on Thursday. Kept putting the engine back together. Need to wire it and get the bell housing and transmission on. Took some pics of the oil pan too.









78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2023 at 8:54pm
Looks bad ass. 
1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens
2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S.
1968 Ski Nautique, Project.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2023 at 5:18pm
Also, thinking about breaking in the rebuild.  I have read as many threads as possible including the below.  We have a freshly honed engine and new rings and bearings.  Cam is original.  Thinking we can bypass the initial 1.5-2hr cam break in and go to the 20hr break in.  We have break in oil with high zddp.  Will be running fresh non-eth 90 octane.  The springs in our distributor look good and the weights are free. 

I would like some opinions from you engine gurus as we want to start on the stand in the barn to check for leaks and get initial timing correct.  How long can we idle to accomplish this before we need to be on the water to properly seat the rings.   

78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2023 at 7:48pm
I think Reid or Quinner offer a break in service. You just load the boat with Coors Lite to simulate passengers and equiptment and pick it up a week or 2 later. On a serious note-  rings won't seat idling the engine
https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2018/05/how-to-break-in-your-piston-rings-the-right-way/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2023 at 10:39pm
David, looks like you have done a really fine rebuild on your boat.  I know everyone keeps saying great job on the boat.  Heck, I like the shop pictures in the background!   Very. Nice shop.
As far as start up, do you remember what type rings you installed?  Moly or plain Cast faced rings?
Modern Moly rings will seat right away, boats always load the engine so as soon as you have it in gear and accelerate from near idle to 4,000 the rings should be seated.  Cast iron faced rings take longer but same thing.  Accelerate under load, idle to 4,000 RPM, maybe 50% throttle 1st try, then 70% and on a third time 100% from idle to 4,000 RPM and you should be good.  Do not hold it at high RPM which builds combustion heat, when you hit 4,000 RPM back off bring it down to at least 2,000 and let it cool some.  Should have noted first, make sure your timing is perfect before the break in is attempted.  Idle timing can vary and not hurt your engine but Timing at RPM is very important.   I think most state that 34* of timing by 3,500 is safe and works well in the 351W engine.   You do not want more than that to avoid detonation.  Some OEM distributors may keep advancing the timing till 4,000 RPM you should check so you can set yours up proper.   Regardless of where it stops advancing, you need to know how much advance it is getting because at 37 or more degrees you risk detonation which can cause engine damage.  Timing should advance smooth and evenly from idle to where it maxes out.  So maybe 8* at idle and 34* at 3,500 would be close and safe.  If your distributor springs are old and tired the advance may come in too fast and cause acceleration issues.  Timing properly set you should check vacuum, if vacuum is 15+ inches and steady at idle your engine is tight and it verify’s your valves are all closing properly, no vacuum leaks and steady vacuum is a good indicator the engine is ready for use.
Before accelerating it is prudent to put at least 20 minutes run time on the engine to let the valve train and other parts fully seat before hitting high RPM.
The most important step is to not let it overheat or get hot at all, temps should stay very close to your thermostat opening temp, 140* or so.   A new engine makes more heat than a broken in engine so watch this and be careful of high temps.
After initial ring break in it is good to vary engine speeds for the first few hours use, again to help all engine parts mate well to each other.   After a couple hours use I would not hesitate to use it for a ski run or 10 and enjoy your hard labors results.   First oil change after 10 hours use because every engine build will leave some machining dust inside the engine and you want to get that out after break in.  For engines started on a Dyno the operators tell me blow by pretty much goes away after the first engine pull on the dyno when using Moly rings.
Boats and Dyno’s operate pretty much the same, you load the engine and accelerate against that load.  It is perfect for breaking in new rings.  Blow by falls off or is significantly reduced when rings seat in.
Modern rings do like a pretty smooth cylinder finish not the old school rough hone.  A professional hone will allow the quick seat of your rings.
This is a boat engine break in so it is simple.  A new car has so many more systems to break in that the procedure is more complicated.  Differentials, Transmissions, transfer cases, brakes and drive lines all need to break in with a new car.   You are only doing the engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-14-2023 at 6:44am
It seems to me that MrMcD didn't exactly answer your question about "how long can I run it on the engine stand?" Wink

You're just wanting to start it, get the timing set and look for leaks.

I'd figure that in 5 to 10 minutes you can easily do those things.

I wouldn't be afraid to run it up to around 1500 to 2000 rpm on the stand as long as your water supply can keep up with things

If it was a new cam you'd be running it at no load for about 20 minutes at varying speeds around 2000 rpm with no concern for the ring break in during that time

Since it's an old cam, running it no load for the same period of time isn't really any different for your rings and the rest of the engine, but in 5 to 10 minutes I'd figure you'd be all set with the checks you want to do.

Then it can get installed and run under load to accomplish your break in 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-14-2023 at 7:51am
Thanks for the responses. We are building a plan. Hardest part at this time of year is getting to the shop to work. I don’t think that will happen again until after Thanksgiving.

I’d love to take credit for the shop but it is not mine. It is my friend Jesse’s who is also a co owner on the Tique and this Skier. It is a great place to get away to in the winter and work on old toys without the wives and kids. He won’t let me, but I would love to pack more boats in.

Once we get through the first hour or two of break in, getting 8 or 9 more hours will be fun but tedious on badin as it is only 5500 acres. We will fill the boat with beer and welcome anyone who wants to drive at varying rpm’s. Even quinner! Heck, last time we went to CLT to grab this boat from the gel shop, we met Reid, quinner and cousin Donald for wings at hooters. Good times!
78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-14-2023 at 8:18am
Almost forgot to ask............how's the dipstick tube coming along?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-14-2023 at 8:34am
It is not coming along thus far.  We really need some measurements off of the Tique.  We can measure the ones we have, but frankly are not sure they are correct for the 302 pan we have.  We want to be sure.  Any thoughts on the pan in the pic and what vehicle it would have been on...197X Ford XXXXX (Bronco?) so we could buy new.
78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-14-2023 at 11:57am
You mention cam is original, are the lifters original and on the exact same lobes?   If the lifters are new or if they are on new lobes your only choice is a cam break in.   If they are original and in the exact same locations you can skip the cam break in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-14-2023 at 12:25pm
I don't think you will find a new pan. I needed one back in 94 ended up going to a engine rebuilder in Chicago. He had a mountain of pans and I picked through them until I found what I needed. My HM has the same pan as yours but I still had the original tube and stick with it. I drilled out the rivits on the old pan I replaced and saved the insert. It was a pan used on a PCM, the insert is cast iron and has a threaded dipstick mount rather than the slide in one. I kept it for my HM if it ever needs to come out again. You might be able to find an old damaged pan and switch them out as well. I don't have access to my books or pictures but I'd bet Ken has or could find our old posts here about those pans Ford part numbers which would help in your search. Ford pans are mysterious and confusing LOL


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-14-2023 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by samudj01 samudj01 wrote:

Thanks for the responses. We are building a plan. Hardest part at this time of year is getting to the shop to work. I don’t think that will happen again until after Thanksgiving.

I’d love to take credit for the shop but it is not mine. It is my friend Jesse’s who is also a co owner on the Tique and this Skier. It is a great place to get away to in the winter and work on old toys without the wives and kids. He won’t let me, but I would love to pack more boats in.

Once we get through the first hour or two of break in, getting 8 or 9 more hours will be fun but tedious on badin as it is only 5500 acres. We will fill the boat with beer and welcome anyone who wants to drive at varying rpm’s. Even quinner! Heck, last time we went to CLT to grab this boat from the gel shop, we met Reid, quinner and cousin Donald for wings at hooters. Good times!



tedious on badin as its ONLY 5500 acres!!!!!  That cracks me up as we up here in the North think an 80 acre pond is "not really big enough--but hey---its what we got!!"

btw-you do great work on all of your projects.  They are fun to watch unfold.  Keep it up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-14-2023 at 12:30pm
Found this old thread with part numbers and pictures of that insert I took out-  http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31192&title=ski-tique-oil-pan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-14-2023 at 3:39pm
I think that like Gary's link says, that's an oil pan for a 66-77 Bronco with a 289 or 302 and it's no longer available from Ford and there's no exact aftermarket version of it.

You can still find them used from some early Bronco shops

See the link below


Only problem is they probably used a different dipstick tube and dipstick, which would get you nowhere. And the engine angle being different would affect the readings.

What's broken on your tube?

The rivet holes are probably spaced the same on your pan and your other pan with the threaded hole, in which case you could use a threaded dipstick tube or a piece of 3/8 brake/fuel line because the inverted flare fitting is the same as the female threads in the pan..
 
You could then mark a dipstick with a "full" and "down a quart mark" and be good to go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-14-2023 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by samudj01 samudj01 wrote:



Once we get through the first hour or two of break in, getting 8 or 9 more hours will be fun but tedious on badin as it is only 5500 acres. We will fill the boat with beer and welcome anyone who wants to drive at varying rpm’s. Even quinner! Heck, last time we went to CLT to grab this boat from the gel shop, we met Reid, quinner and cousin Donald for wings at hooters. Good times!

Did you say beer and a nine-hour boat ride?????  In the winter where there is no one on the lake? Sign me up as a test driver.  Drinking for nine hours will be a challenge, but I accept the challenge.  Big smile
1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens
2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S.
1968 Ski Nautique, Project.
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