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GT40 Fuel injectors

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gt40KS View Drop Down
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    Posted: March-19-2018 at 8:16pm
Going through all the take-off parts from the old engine and got to the fuel rails & injectors.   Though the injectors look rather ratty, they seem to have been working ok. Then again, I never had a computer diagnostic to tell me just how well they were functioning. Thinking that roughly 75-80% of the engine is new and/ or reman, I was seriously considering replacing the set, especially after sitting on the work bench for a few months. Then of course I checked on the price of stock (PCM) replacements. Wow!!   The injectors for my diesel are about the same cost - 'stock' replacement gas injectors should be half or less that.

So my question is if anyone knows of a commercially available Ford equivalent? Even a re-manufactured would be fine.   We've found that the AIC and several other parts can be had at Rock, etc. that are 100% compatible and at 1/4 the price or less.   

And yes, I've done the site search without much success - only mentions the "possibility of", or "I think that 460 injectors will" ... but no hard part #'s

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sport1999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2018 at 8:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2018 at 8:48pm
No part numbers on them? I have never had any off so I have never looked at them that close. I know Skidim lists them says they are 24#- link
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2018 at 8:52pm
Well, Sport 1999's link had the Ford part number just as clear as day in a picture from Joe in NY by way of TRB and they're 24#/hr.

SkiDim's price is probably what floored Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2018 at 8:58pm
I googled 1995 Lightning Looks like marine used larger injectors? Post #6 heremay help
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2018 at 9:00pm
And that link please Ken?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2018 at 9:04pm
Guess I'm not asking the search engine the right questions - must have phrased it a dozen different ways and couldn't find anything.   Thanks!

And yes Gary, checked for part #'s but if the terrible maintenance and grimey, sludge covered engine weren't bad enough, one of the PO's coated them with enough overspray to make very difficult to read. I figured it may be easier to search or ask the question here.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2018 at 9:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2018 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

SkiDim's price is probably what floored Joe


Yep you got it, though I found the same info on 2 other sites selling PCM parts. Well within a few $ anyway. Stock replacement REMAN injectors for our business trucks is $200+/- each after returning the cores. We just had to spring for a new set for my boys truck so I didn't really want to do the same with my boat, unless there was no way around it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2018 at 10:34pm
Joe

The parts manual in the link may come in handy for you if you're looking for original PCM part numbers and info.

For example your injectors are on page F4-1 part number 47 and the accompanying figure and the description says they're 24#/hr

It covers 1975 to 2001 model years Ford and Chevy. Revised in 2000, I guess to go up to the 2001 model year.

PCM illustrated parts manual
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2018 at 12:19am
Awesome Ken, this is just what I've been needing. Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2018 at 4:19am
I would check on the Mustang automobile forum for injector information. Those guys have been performance modding this injection system for a long time. I am sure they have sources for injectors and recommendations for the flow needed. These engines work hard like a truck but don't see RPM over 5,300 so no need to go crazy unless you are upping the power.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2018 at 4:22am
I remember Carter came out with a higher flow Fuel Pump that was targeting the Mustang crowd.   If I remember right a simple upgrade was the higher pressure pump for the Ford Injection. These mustangs have wheels not a rudder. It can get confusing on the Nautique forum if you mention a Mustang.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2018 at 8:18am
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

I would check on the Mustang automobile forum for injector information. Those guys have been performance modding this injection system for a long time. I am sure they have sources for injectors and recommendations for the flow needed. These engines work hard like a truck but don't see RPM over 5,300 so no need to go crazy unless you are upping the power.


It seems like PCM/Ford must have had a reason for 24#/hr injectors in a system/engine that runs very well with them.

Joe's trying to get to stock specifications on his Frankenstein engine that some not so upstanding type sold to him as a GT 40

The stock flow rate is just fine.for that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2018 at 12:23pm
I believe I ID'd those injectors as standard fare from a 90s 460 3/4 ton truck motor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2018 at 2:38pm
Well, might just go another way than new anyway. Spoke with a fellow lake friend that had his injectors rebuilt here in town a couple years ago and said it was half the cost of new. His was a GM platform, but those injectors new were half the cost of these gt40's already. The only thing I'm worried about is as Ken said, the Frankentsein engine that was in it before. Who knows if the injectors I have are even the correct ones for the original GT40 platform. I pulled the injectors from the rail this morning and was able to clean one of them off enough to get a couple of part #s, googled them and came up with a few links but none of them specifically pointed to the marine GT40 as the correct part. Can anyone confirm the 2 part numbers on the stock PCM injectors?   What I have is 280-150-947 and F1TE-D5A.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2018 at 3:04pm
look at this link again , it's the same one as yesterday.

It has a picture and the number stamped on the injector, you can see that it says F1TE-D5A just like the number you found.

The other number you list is the Bosch part number

Click on this link for more info.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2018 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by gt40KS gt40KS wrote:

    What I have is 280-150-947 and F1TE-D5A.


That is what would have been on a 95 gt40 for sure, pcm marine, yadda yadda none of it was anything other than ford industrial. These things used to be cheap on ebay new aftermarket like 179 for set of 8 - but I guess there are newer connectors or something and the old ones are less available if I am reading things right - but any 24lb injector that's a replacement for fords that has that style connector is going to work for you just fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fl Inboards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2018 at 4:15pm
Motor craft # CM-4721
                     F1TZ-9f593-C
                   Fuel Injector

PCM #RN0154


Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2018 at 4:59pm
Good thread Ken, don't know why I didn't see that link earlier, just like I don't know why my search engine skills don't seem to work on this site Anyway, thanks to everyone for all the help.

I did call the local shop and spoke with the guy about the injectors. Lots of information from him as well - awesome knowledgeable guy and knew right away what I was talking about.    Now that I know they are in fact the correct ones, I'm going to take them to him to be rebuilt.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2018 at 5:01pm
Companies like, Denso, Borg Warner, Standard Ignition, A-1 Cardone, Airtex have been supplying the Automotive market with replacement injectors for years.
The Marine factor is a non issue on an injector. The 24 lb tells you the important issue and the connector as mentioned by others needs to match.
Keep in mind that Ford did not make injectors, they purchased them so looking at aftermarket as inferior is a mistake in most cases.
Your local Auto Parts Store may have a decent deal on these and avoid paying freight to get them if you choose not to rebuild them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2018 at 11:27pm
Dropped the injectors by the rebuild shop and had a nice conversation with the guy. As soon as he saw them he asked how they were running and if I had any cold start issues or hot start issues after it sits for a while.
'Cold starts, yes' , I said - 'It seems to have this loping or idle fluctuation for a few minutes on a cold start, and the hot starts seem to take a few cranks if it's set for a bit, but no loping at that point. Why do you ask?'    
That's when he told me that this specific injector type - multiple part #s, multiple applications - has a bad history with developing leaks over time, especially when they sit unused for long periods of time, like when you put a boat away for the winter. He said light cases only drip a few drops after shutting down and it will take a few cranks sometimes to get it started. Worse cases will actually load the cylinders and can make it very hard to start. Either condition can also cause several other issues with idle, fuel consumption, etc. as well. Once the erosion has started, there isn't a fix other than getting new injectors. Well ....
He said if they test bad and I don't want to go through with the rebuild, there will be no charge, so I told him to proceed in cleaning and testing them and let me know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-21-2018 at 4:41am
I spoke to my son tonight about your engine. My son does computer reprograms for High Performance late model engines. Mostly Turbo and Supercharged engines and some where they add a big cam and heads.
He can take these that will not run on a factory tune and make them purr.
He said our system, I have a 95 Pro Boss also, is limited.   Since it is not self tuning using O2 sensors he says we would need to go old school and make a new fuel map and he has no interest in playing with the older stuff.
He did say if we are jumping up from the 310 HP factory engine to maybe 400 HP the injectors should handle the flow but the most common tweak on these older Fords is the increase in Fuel Pressure which allows the factory injector to provide the increase need in Fuel.
Getting someone good that could provide a quality fuel map would be the hard and expensive part. You don't want a boat that does not idle perfectly.
Mine runs so good factory stock I think it will stay factory stock. It has great low end power and will tach up over 5,200 RPM with a Acme 224 prop.
If I found a set of AFR Ford heads at a screaming deal I would grab them and upgrade to the roller cam at the same time. I don't know if it would be worth it but I like playing with engines, conservatively.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-21-2018 at 11:06pm
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:


He did say if we are jumping up from the 310 HP factory engine to maybe 400 HP the injectors should handle the flow but the most common tweak on these older Fords is the increase in Fuel Pressure which allows the factory injector to provide the increase need in Fuel.

.... I don't know if it would be worth it but I like playing with engines, conservatively.


Not looking at that large of a bump this time around. My new engine specs in the 340-350 range. Shop has about a 5-6 week backlog so I won't be bolting on all the new and refurbished parts for a while. Hard not to get excited though

I've been a gearhead since my early teens - back in the dark ages, so says my Son   
But I know what you mean - can't seem to leave anything alone and my wife just rolls her eyes. At least I don't go crazy like some of my friends. Yeah, conservative.

Ok, well except for my last boat ....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SharkSN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2022 at 1:59am
Not sure if it is in the thread but Bosch made the orig Injectors, as above part# 280-150-947 24.5 lb/hr spec.
I have Porsche/Bosch injectors from 1990 similar although different part # and less capacity.

Not an "easy" job, took me a few hours total ... approximate steps to remove and replace injectors:
1. Pull the -ve off the battery, get safety glasses.
option to blow out fuel rail area with some compressed air for cleanliness. 
2. Bleed fuel rail (I used a rag and small screwdriver).
3. The connectors are tricky - I used two bent pick tools, one each side to gently lift the tabs
4. Undo the 3/8" bolts that hold the rail. Depending on which bolt, I used long extension (3/8 drive), small 1/4" drive or a universal and two extensions.  I also undid a manifold bolt at the back corner that holds wiring in place.    
5. Work the rails and injectors loose. Wiggle the injectors, with some push, side to side to extract from rail
6. Lube new injector o-rings, I installed the injectors to manifold first, then lined up the rail to fit onto the tops of the injectors.  Press-in to ensure the rail is firmly seated and injectors are correctly installed. 
7. Reconnect wiring
8 Install rail bolts. reconnect battery. 
9. Prime system and carefully check for leaks.  
 
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