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Invertaflow muffler question

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    Posted: January-13-2015 at 11:01am
So I have to repair a few leaks in my invertaflow muffler. I have a question about a noise I am hearing when I move the muffler around. It sounds as if there is something inside that is moving. It doesn't sound like its moving around (loose) inside the muffler, but instead sounds like some sort of hinged baffle or something.

Is there some sort of hinged baffle inside or do I need to cut the end off to see what's doing?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2015 at 11:11am
JP,
There's no hinged baffle. It sounds like a baffle is loose and still attached on one side creating the hinge effect. There are a couple great threads on the invertiflow repair. Take a look and it will give you a better idea of whats inside.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwouncmd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2015 at 10:25pm
I took mine apart and the banging was an extension of the outflow pipe that was no longer attached. The water has to fill the muffler to the level of the outlet (kind of like a bathtub overflow drain) before it can drain out, the exhaust has to bubble through the water. I glassed the extension back on the outflow, then fixed the leaks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JPASS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2015 at 10:41am
So I have everything cut open and noticed the following:

Both outside caps of the muffler had the glass delaminated from the structure below them.

The rattling I hear is this inner sleeve sliding up and down below the top hat looking thing on the top of the muffler. Is this supposed to slide up and down? I believe everything inside appears to be OK no?









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2015 at 10:52am
How did you know you needed to make repairs? Did you notice something when you were doing riser gaskets? I'm trying to get an idea of what to look for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JPASS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2015 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by Orlando76 Orlando76 wrote:

How did you know you needed to make repairs? Did you notice something when you were doing riser gaskets? I'm trying to get an idea of what to look for.


I noticed dry water streaks coming from both end caps and from the exiting downtube.

The glass ends of the cap were soft to the touch. When I cut into it it appears the glass on the end caps came delaminated from the structure beneath it.

That sliding baffle in the above pic is what I was asking about. Mine currently slides up and down inside that tube that encases it. I heard it rattling around as I was working on it.

I have no idea if it's supposed to be in there loose or what. Just want to confirm it's function before I glass it back together.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2015 at 2:16pm
Was the Invertiflow made by CC or is it an aftermarket?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2015 at 2:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2015 at 3:21pm
Not mentioned in the above is that Centex also bought out Marine Muffler Corp found in many boats
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2015 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Marine Muffler Corp found in many boats


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2015 at 4:17pm
lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2015 at 5:01pm
Hey I resemble that remark

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JPASS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2015 at 6:26pm
Soooooo no thoughts on the moving piece in the exhaust?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2015 at 6:43pm
I don't believe any fiberglass should be free to move around inside a muffler.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JPASS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 8:35am
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

I don't believe any fiberglass should be free to move around inside a muffler.


I guess I'm just not seeing how to reattach this baffle piece. It doesn't appear to be broken free as there's no signs of broken or fresh glass on the part I can see.

It almost appears as if it's meant to float up and down that tube it resides in.

At this point I think I'm going to leave it as the exhaust was working fine aside from the small leaks.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwouncmd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 8:59am
I was annoyed by the clunking around, and I had recurrent leaks the PO has done a very poor job of repairing, so I ended up taking the whole thing apart.

If I recall, it appeared to me that the inner piece was glassed in from the outside, and basically, it it had fallen apart. I took the outer single exhaust pipe off (the glass was delaminating so it pealed away pretty easily freeing the outer pipe). I cleaned everything up, fitted the inner pipe back into the outer pipe with epoxy on the inside of the outer pipe, then used glass and epoxy on the outside (the assembly was a slightly angled, and I think that is one of the reasons there are two pieces of pipe). I then put the rejoined piece back into the muffler and glassed the whole assembly in. I got the angles right so it all fit the way it was supposed to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JPASS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 10:47am
Originally posted by dwouncmd dwouncmd wrote:

I was annoyed by the clunking around, and I had recurrent leaks the PO has done a very poor job of repairing, so I ended up taking the whole thing apart.

If I recall, it appeared to me that the inner piece was glassed in from the outside, and basically, it it had fallen apart. I took the outer single exhaust pipe off (the glass was delaminating so it pealed away pretty easily freeing the outer pipe). I cleaned everything up, fitted the inner pipe back into the outer pipe with epoxy on the inside of the outer pipe, then used glass and epoxy on the outside (the assembly was a slightly angled, and I think that is one of the reasons there are two pieces of pipe). I then put the rejoined piece back into the muffler and glassed the whole assembly in. I got the angles right so it all fit the way it was supposed to.


This is the help I was looking for. Thanks so much. So where did you cut the exit pipe? Did you cut it where it meets the muffler body or did you cut it a few inches down from the top? I have a small crack about 4-5" below where the exit pipe meets the body of the muffler. I can easily cut this all the way off and re-attach the floating pipe if you think I will be able to access it.

Thanks again for your help. Any other tips would be greatly appreciated.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 12:56pm
There seems to be sufficient reasoning to ditch the invertaflow and install downtubes and a Y. Seems to me there would even be room for an inline 4" muffler after the Y.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JPASS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

There seems to be sufficient reasoning to ditch the invertaflow and install downtubes and a Y. Seems to me there would even be room for an inline 4" muffler after the Y.


I have everything I need to repair the muffler. Don't feel like dropping a few more hundies on new hoses and a Y pipe.







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 3:12pm
I have an intact invertaflo at Zach's place if interested....... Somewhere around $100 or so plus shipping. (Maybe some "hoser" is passing through INDY to FLA for SJRR.............)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 3:32pm
Considering how many people have problems with the Invertiflo's, I certainly can say their construction is pathetic.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Considering how many people have problems with the Invertiflo's, I certainly can say their construction is pathetic.


Geez Pete, there's always room for improvement but these things are about 20 years old. Not a terrible track record really.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 5:01pm
Alan, Pete was being kind.

If really disappointed he would say "Hack Job".... pathetic ain't nothin.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Considering how many people have problems with the Invertiflo's, I certainly can say their construction is pathetic.


Geez Pete, there's always room for improvement but these things are about 20 years old. Not a terrible track record really.   

Alan,
I was basing my comment on the construction and not the age. The thin walls and little or no reinforcement on corners or joints. The glass hulls are past 20 and they are still good.

BTW, I'm past 20 and slowing down but not falling apart!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Considering how many people have problems with the Invertiflo's, I certainly can say their construction is pathetic.


Geez Pete, there's always room for improvement but these things are about 20 years old. Not a terrible track record really.   

Alan,
I was basing my comment on the construction and not the age. The thin walls and little or no reinforcement on corners or joints. The glass hulls are past 20 and they are still good.



You have your engineering blinders on again. I'm just saying how many 1000's of these things did CC put in their boats in the 90's? Of course there are going to be some failures but when the majority are still in service after 20 years and 1000-2000 hours of use that doesn't seem to deserve the "pathetic" grade. YES anything can be scrutinized after 20 years of use and be redesigned to last longer/perform better but that doesn't make the first edition a failure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwouncmd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 8:31pm
I didn't cut mine. The larger outside exhaust pipe is stuck in through a hole in the side of the main muffler, then glassed in. I worked my way around the glassed-in joint, delaminating the joint one layer at a time until the pipe was free. The problem I see with cutting it is that you would lose the extra length that projects into the muffler and allows connection to the smaller inner pipe and the glassed in joint to the muffler.

One caveat to replacing the muffler with an unknown model invertaflow, they can be slightly different in terms of connection spacing, pipe size and angle to manifold, as well as lateral position and angle of the down pipe. They are not universal (I have one donated to me that does not fit in my boat, which I am hoping to donate in turn to someone at a reunion one day).

The y pipe conversion is an option, but repairing the one you have is probably a whole lot less expensive, and as a bonus you get to figure how it is put together and how it works.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JPASS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by dwouncmd dwouncmd wrote:

I didn't cut mine. The larger outside exhaust pipe is stuck in through a hole in the side of the main muffler, then glassed in. I worked my way around the glassed-in joint, delaminating the joint one layer at a time until the pipe was free. The problem I see with cutting it is that you would lose the extra length that projects into the muffler and allows connection to the smaller inner pipe and the glassed in joint to the muffler.


I'm not sure I follow?

Here's a video of whats going on in there. It almost looks as if I should slide the loose pipe up into that weird chamber and apply some epoxy to the end and then let it seat itself and call it a day. I don't see an easy way to fix this floating pipe.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 9:43pm
Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

You have your engineering blinders on again. I'm just saying how many 1000's of these things did CC put in their boats in the 90's? Of course there are going to be some failures but when the majority are still in service after 20 years and 1000-2000 hours of use that doesn't seem to deserve the "pathetic" grade. YES anything can be scrutinized after 20 years of use and be redesigned to last longer/perform better but that doesn't make the first edition a failure.

Alan,
I stand corrected. It's easy to criticize when I see many failures without thinking the complete situation through and I apologize for that.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwouncmd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2015 at 10:27pm
I believe the small floating pipe seats down into the down pipe. I think the chamber above is an outer baffle for the exhaust (the exhaust has to flow through the water and into up into the chamber; when the smaller pipe was seated in the down pipe the water level must be as deep as the smaller pipe protrudes up into the baffle, the water and exhaust have to flow up into the chamber and out the smaller pipe into the down pipe). I don't think mine ever had that chamber, just the smaller pipe seated in the down pipe. My 89 was the first year for invertaflow; I think your muffler is a slightly newer design. I think you could just expoy the smaller pipe back into the down pipe, but looks like it might be tough in the small space you have to work in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JPASS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2015 at 8:12am
My understanding of how this works is this:

That floating pipe actually acts like an elevated spillway in that the exhaust doesn't start dumping water until the height of the water in the muffler reaches the top of the loose pipe. Then the water will then flow out the exhaust.

I'm assuming this also helps to create a certain amount of back pressure? Would not having this spillway effect anything in regards to the way the motor runs or performs? Wonder if it lead to any of the leaks due to an improper water level in the exhaust?

Or maybe it's just too early and I'm talking outta my a$$






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