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1978 CC Ski Nautique Engine Type & Mystery Box?

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WheelsUpATX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WheelsUpATX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2014 at 2:54am
Perfect. I did see the diagram earlier and I'm printing this stuff out to go figure it all out and do some troubleshooting. It's tough b/c I enjoy taking the boat out and want to take advantage of the season but im also tempted to just store it and start re-doing the wiring so it's on point. Update on this problem... My mechanic and I have been in communication. He thinks that my voltage regulator was fried and it might have damaged the coil and he is pretty confident that it's the coil. He was troubleshooting with the multimeter on this last visit and we left it at the problem being in either the voltage regulator and or coil as we have no reason to think it could be elsewhere but I shouldn't say we b/c he knows more about this than I do (so far!). i have a new voltage regulator already installed and will get a coil tomorrow. While this might or might not work I would like to re-wire everything anyway and go through it all. My mechanic had told me before it's a mess and makes sense to streamline and re-wire but he seemed to have the boat running good until I started losing the battery so I need to investigate where this was coming from. It's possible that some of the problems we were shooting over the last few months wore down my battery as I didn't always charge it as long as I might have should? Or maybe we've got an ongoing problem with the battery (maybe it's time to lose the auto zone battery)... Also make note the ceramic piece behind the voltage regulator was removed earlier in the season as I was told we don't need it or boat will be okay without it as it's pretty warm down here? I am going to swap the coil and see as we made some improvements to the electrical system that seemed to work fine until we had the impeller and batt problem. Granted it might not fix bigger problems like bad wiring but the boat was functioning great for a long while until a few different problems came up (impeller, battery problem and trouble starting) If the coil doesn't do it i'm not calling my mechanic any more. We went down several roads this summer with this boat and some might have been avoided with some more cautious awareness and more laser focused trouble shooting. Some mechanics work on fixing things temporarily or short term get it running fast and don't always diagnose the bigger picture. Anyway here's a couple pictures to give you idea of the grand rats nest of wiring I have.







back of alternator when I pulled it to test. these are the only wires that it has thus far since I took on the boat. It ran fine for several months with no problems or dead battery, I tested it at auto zone (not the best method) and it passed. This was a few days ago.



pic from the other day when we broke down. majorly let down mutts.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NautiqueNut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2014 at 4:47am
THE CERAMIC PART (long white)at the rear of the engine by the regulator; If that is what your referring to, this is the Ballast Resistor. When you start your engine, by turning the key the Resistor is OUT OF THE CIRCUIT, this allows a full 12+ Volts to crank your engine. Once you take your hand off the key and the engine starts to run , the resistor takes over by dropping the volts to the points in the distributor, from lets say 12+ volts to 8.5 volts, this protects the mechanical points from burning up. Do you have Mechanical points? Most likely you do. You have a prestolite brand distributor from the pictures you present. If you do and you have a standard coil, you need the ballast resistor. Some coils have a internal resistor. All these parts must work in concert or the battery will not charge and the points will burn up, engine will not run, no spark etc. The diagram is for the old school way. Change's should be done by a person with a good understanding of these difference's. Had the same issue's with my 1978.
It was not to late for my 78
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2014 at 6:50am
That wiring is "nasty" as soon as you get the boat running I would rewire totally. That wiring harness has many signs of high resistance joints causing excessive current loads and then subsequent heat damage.
If you're going through hell, keep going

89 Ski

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2014 at 9:18am
Dan,
I totally agree with Mark above. You can actually see where butt splices are getting hot. Yes as mentioned, tinned wire and the best crimp on connectors are important.

Getting bad to your "mechanic", has he been doing any testing or is he and yourself just throwing parts at the boat? The primary and secondary windings in a coil can be tested with the VOM!

One again, how are you or your mechanic testing for spark? Is there an EI module in the distributor? Please read our questions. We are trying to help.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WheelsUpATX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2014 at 1:48pm
Wiring is nasty yes- I plan on re-wiring all of it. At least going through from start to finish and cleaning it all up.

Yes I have mechanical points.

There is no EI module.

Mechanic was constantly using meter to check and troubleshoot electronics.
At last visit the problem with the coil showing +6 or 7V mechanic said it's either the coil itself or the

@NautiqueNut Change's should be done by a person with a good understanding of these difference's. Had the same issue's with my 1978. <0--- AGREED!!

It sounds like I may have removed the ballast resistor? I was told a while back that ceramic piece was an electric choke and not needed.

We are not just throwing parts on the boat by any means. All I have done thus far is replace the voltage regulator.
If I am going to re-do all the wiring wouldn't it make sense to make the move to electronic ignition as well?

Thank you guys again I apologize for lack of clarity in describing some of this.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2014 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by WheelsUpATX WheelsUpATX wrote:


It sounds like I may have removed the ballast resistor? I was told a while back that ceramic piece was an electric choke and not needed.



This makes me suspect your coil also...   the ballast resistor keeps the coil from getting full line voltage during the run stage.

Ohm out the coil and see what the readings are (primary and secondary) if either one is open or out of spec, it's time for a new one.   I think the MSD blaster epoxy filled coils have been popular on here, but a search will turn up which model you need.    the new coil may or may not need the ballast resistor, but that should be stated in the coil instructions from the MFG.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2014 at 4:31pm
Dan,
From the picture, it doesn't look like the point set has been changed in quite some time. It looks like corroded contacts and connections, misaligned contacts and I don't see any lube on the cam/rub block. You said your mechanic was using his VOM. Did you notice him checking to see if the point set contacts were actually closing? Is this the time he took the point file to them?

I agree that removing the ballast resistor could have burnt up the coil. As mentioned, was the coils primary and secondary Ohm'd out? I have to ask what was the logic in removing the resistor?

EI conversions are not my favorite. There are some good ones and plenty of bad ones. There's nothing wrong with a point set. If a conversion goes you are stuck in the middle of the lake unless you carry a spare. With a point set typically all that's needed is to clean up the contacts. Your wife's nail file or even a dollar bill pulled through them will get you going.


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77 Tique

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WheelsUpATX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2014 at 4:44pm
I do recall him checking the point set contacts and verifying that they were closing. He didn't seem to point out that should be a factor. I am testing the coil here this afternoon to verify if primary and secondary are ohm'd out. I have never done that test so I'm watching a video as we speak. The logic in removing the resistor was that the wire had broken on it and the boat was running fine so I had multiple sources say that the boat would be fine if we removed it. It was running fine without it for quite a while but not long enough that I can rule it out. Good to know on EL conversions. I need to clean up the points and clean up the contacts as well when I take another stab at this. Also I want to make sure I get the right coil I need to research the forum further on that as well. Probably not an auto zone model I can score if I want to invest in the correct coil epoxy vs. oil... lots of items to master at this juncture and troubleshoot. I appreciate the help, I'll try and see what I can figure on the coil today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NautiqueNut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2014 at 5:58pm
Dan, Here is how I see this. First checkout (Skidim); on the web for parts. Its called Discount Inboard Marine. Talk to Richard for parts, great man. This is the, and was the oldest dealer of Correct Crafts in the USA for years. You will pay a little more for a few of the parts you need but for $200.00 bucks you should be able to solve this problem. Buy the correct original , points ,condenser , and rotor. New "correct" prestolite original distributer cap, stuff comes in a kit. Get the ballist resistor, as they have everything you need and ship same Day to your door BAM !!!! Follow the diagram, fix bad splice work, and clean all connections by loosening and a light fine sanding. Like all you can see. Like you said earlier, starter did crank so it works. Starter relay is good, voltage regulator is good, Don't forget to get the correct Coil. Set your point gap, and get a Interstate Marine battery. Only question is the alternator witch you said sill was good but could be wired differently as it is a two wire, Take boat to an Auto Ignition place and 2hrs latter,they should be able to solve this, (if you cant). I went through this hole mess with my 1978 , 2 years ago. Lisa       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2014 at 6:43pm
Based on the appearance of your wiring and the issues you're having, the cost of a new harness maybe justified. Skidim sells them.

Agree on replacing the ballast resistor and cap/rotor/points/condenser as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2014 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by WheelsUpATX WheelsUpATX wrote:

The logic in removing the resistor was that the wire had broken on it and the boat was running fine so I had multiple sources say that the boat would be fine if we removed it.

I would be very careful with taking advice from your "multiple sources"! As mentioned, externally resisted coils need the nominal 8 volts.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2014 at 8:21pm
Check to see if you have 12 volts at coil with the key in the on position. If yes, then shut off key, disconnect large power wire from switched side of main solenoid going to starter. Turn and hold key in the start position and test coil for 12 volts. If no, test post on solenoid with blue wire in above condition(starter disconnected and key in start position)which should read 12v. This provides 12v to coil when key is in start position. No power, no spark.
The alt. Has been replaced and is probably an internally regulated auto style. Wiring in harness needs to be modified to make work. Richard, Vince and DIM team are the best source for info and parts, hands down. Let me know if this helps. Todd Buchanan 989-289-9240
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2014 at 8:39pm
After looking at pics closer the blue write leaving the solenoid is not connected to the positive side of the coil. Connect and This should create fire! Points need to be replaced and lube pad is a must if you run points. with no lube they will wear to inoperable in one ride EI is about $150 and eliminates point issues but needs proper setup. Stop going to that mechanic
1979 SKI NAUTIQUE / 1985 SONIC 24SS TWIN OB
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