Competition Barefoot Boats, Non CC

Here's the Indmar 6.0

Here are two of the bulkheads that make these boats so rigid. More get glassed into the sides.

Wood! wood! wood!

A new barefoot boat is born. Yep that is gelcoat.

Disco Bay is crawling with Sanger boats too so I know Brian has seen alot of them...hundreds of them...never two alike.

I cant speak to the craftsmanship of Sangers either. Im just assuming that was one of the things theyre doing to compensate for the wood. If they truly believe that the wood makes for a better performing ski boat, I think theyre kidding themselves. I could possibly see that argument on a much larger boat that needed to flex, but ski boats are small and pretty darn stiff.

I would imagine that the lack of foam is the main reason the older boats are preserved so well, assuming thats how theyve always built them. Same thing goes for the mid 60's glass CC's that didnt get foamed- those boats are much less prone to rot than the foamed boats.

Merriam-Webster wrote: bou·tique noun, often attributive \bü-ˈtēk\ Definition of BOUTIQUE 1 a : a small fashionable shop 1 b : a small shop within a large department store 2: a small company that offers highly specialized services or products

bkhallpass wrote: Guys, Sanger could put whatever stringers they want in a boat. They like wood and believes it give the boat the best characteristics (recall CC felt the same way for a long time). Once Sanger agreed to a lifetime warranty for original owners, it became kind of a moot point. CC has a boat with stringers they say will last forever, and Sanger has stringers it will warrant forever. Of course, if you buying used, perhaps a different story. But, there are plenty of 25 year old Sangers driving around out here.

Agree to disagree, Brian!

Anyone who says "wood is the best" without any caveats is just spouting marketing BS. It may be the best low cost material available, thats a viable argument. It certainly is "good enough" to build a quality boat. CC did it for a looooong time. They finally found a better way- better in that there is no longer any wood that will rot, while the performance of the boat is essentially unchanged. I understand that the wood-like stringer core materials are cost prohibitive for a boutique manufacturer like Sanger, but that doesnt mean they get to ignore the fact that there are better alternatives available. They choose to get by with a lower cost material (wood), and back it up with (presumably) great craftsmanship and a great warranty. Nothing wrong with that!

Andy,

We have to get some of these guys to come out and ski with you. I bet
we could use Rich Peters boat at Diablo Shores, and probably get
Pellaton and Temby to come out along with you, Willy, Flipper, who knows.

BTW - I think you and I met once. I don't remember if it was at Diablo Shores or perhaps at the ski show Temby put together at Orwood. I think you
know my wife as well, Denese Davidson.

Guys, Sanger could put whatever stringers they want in a boat. They like wood and believes it give the boat the best characteristics (recall CC felt the same way for a long time). Once Sanger agreed to a lifetime warranty for original owners, it became kind of a moot point. CC has a boat with stringers they say will last forever, and Sanger has stringers it will warrant forever.

Of course, if you buying used, perhaps a different story. But, there are plenty of 25 year old Sangers driving around out here.

BKH

That black scorpion is a hot rod. My buddy has one in a 02 response LXI and it runs right at 50.2 at 4900 RPM. He sent the prop back to Acme and told them he wanted it to spin 3-400 more RPM. We will see what it does in the spring. The heads had to be shaved a bit due to an over heat and he had a 3 angle valve job done while they were off so it may be a little hotter than it was originally. 20 ponies or so.

Swatkinz wrote: I could've misspoken. Is a 6L a BB? I'm fairly certain that's what this guy has. His idea was to get more HP with this engine upgrade and then load the boat with fat sacs to tournament load to mimic tourney wake and table. I don't think he had to use a different motorbox or modify the original in any way. Greg Fosset would know as he's driven this boat for the New Years day BF challenge.

I was told there would be no math!

the 6 litre ZR6 PCM is a small block this was a one off boat for New Zealand.

The Big Block Mercs were 8.1 and 8.2 litres...big blocks big cubes

There have been a lot of different motors put in these boats.

42mph



46 mph

Here's a 6L PCM

Hollywood wrote: Steve you doubled the length of this thread in just 4 posts.

Sorry HW, things tend to get longer when I get excited.

cool thread, eh?

GlassSeeker wrote: So are you guys saying wood is no good? I'm glad my Sanger has wood stingers because it rides so smooth and quiet and solid, slam it over the waves it doesn't shake or rattle, it slices, it dices.

Wood is usually "good enough"... Heck, all pre 93 cc's are built that way. It's certainly not the be-all end-all of materials though.

You don't need wood to make a solid boat. You don't need foam either. Come for a ride in joes 83 or my bfn and it'll be obvious real quick!

The DXII mold has not changed in 20 years still doing it the same way.

Sanger Boats is family owned and over 59 years old and many people have been with them as long as 35 years. Many 20-25 years. They know what they are doing.

The Aquabeam came in mid 90's and lifetime hull warranty in about 99 or so.

So are you guys saying wood is no good?

I'm glad my Sanger has wood stingers because it rides so smooth and quiet and solid, slam it over the waves it doesn't shake or rattle, it slices, it dices.

Swatkinz wrote: Could there be any truth to his statement that...."This wood cannot rot?" He references, the chemical treatment of the wood, the layers of glue..yadda, yadda. Does non-rotting wood exist? TRBENJ, you mentioned the use of Coosa in leiu of wood. You also referenced the cost prohibitive aspect of Coosa vs. wood. It would seem that given the entire cost of the boat, the cost difference of Coosa in the stringers would not drastically impact the cost of the boat. Unless the cost of Coosa is 50x what wood costs, it seems that there's not that much wood in a stringer system.

I'll let someone smarter than me (like Pete) answer the wood question. I have not heard of "impossible to rot wood", though there are things you can do to make it less susceptible (like CPES). My guess is that he's simply referring to regular pressure treated wood (treated to be weather resistant) and LVL (which uses waterproof glue to hold the layers together). I know Tige is (or was) building their stringers with treated lumber.

As far as cost goes, the materials used to build a hull are not that expensive. A few grand maybe? I would imagine that their profit margin has to be pretty high though- how many people does the company employ, and how much does it cost to run that factory? They only build 400 boats a year in order to recoup their costs (or make a profit). Every little bit of cost they can trim from the boat goes back in their pockets... and if they think wood is good enough, then theyre not going to spend 5x the amount on a composite stringer and floor core. Foam, glass and resin, on the other hand, are relatively cheap... so once you get past the initial cost of building a mold for the stringer system, its not that expensive to do away with the wood entirely. Heck, its probably cheaper! Thats probably why CC/MC/Bu have hollow or foam filled stringers. Their production numbers are higher than Sanger, so they can spread the mold costs over more units. Different business models, but both make sense.