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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-26-2012 at 7:46pm
The EPA and environmentalists in the US are killing our economy.
If they (we) really cared about this planet and life on it we would stop the economies that ARE raping the earth.

300+ million people in the US. 6+ billion on earth and .0001% are commodities speculators and driving oil prices where no man has gone before.

4:45pm and Daytona is delayed. All this crap is putting me in a bad mood!

One more thing my kid is back in Afghanistan.
When the economy is in the pits alcohol sales goes up - I'm going to buy some beer!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-26-2012 at 8:48pm
OK so say we do drill for oil in Yosemite and Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon and any other pristine(as "pristine" as they are at least) national park or wildlife refuge you can think of to increase America's oil supply the oil companies will just reduce refining capacity (as they have been doing) to artifically control(keep high)the price of gasoline. The oil market is highly manipulated, it's not controlled by supply and demand, it's controlled by greedy trolls. Gingrich says he will lower gas to 2.50...well why not 1.60? if you can lower them then lower them to where they fell to after the crash, I believe that is the "real" price anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-26-2012 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by SN206 SN206 wrote:

Well good to hear! Now we can ski! Now, all you have to do is trade in all that burnt orange crap for some quality Sooner Style!

O no! A damb sooner... A sooner.. O man
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-26-2012 at 9:37pm
Drill baby drill. Since Obama has stopped all the off shore drilling and it is is a global commodity, this is hurting supply and demand. Drill baby drill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-26-2012 at 10:41pm
I did a quick search on the web for "oil pipeline break rupture spill" and I found a few days worth of reading including a spill into the Yellowstone river where they blamed the river. A few good ones in Canada recently.

I guess we can conclude that the saftey of pipelines is about as safe as ab offshore drilling/oil rig or a tanker ship with a drunk captain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 1:41am
"Obama has stopped all offshore drilling"

Not true, do some research before you post BS.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 2:00am
Originally posted by Waterdog Waterdog wrote:


One more thing my kid is back in Afghanistan.


Andy, I cannot imagine anything that would make me as proud and scared at the same time as that. May God bless him and your family.

Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maximal691 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 2:10am
Originally posted by OverMyHead OverMyHead wrote:

Originally posted by Waterdog Waterdog wrote:


One more thing my kid is back in Afghanistan.


Andy, I cannot imagine anything that would make me as proud and scared at the same time as that. May God bless him and your family.

Dave


Where is he over there? I did my last deployment in helmand river valley. Being a parent has to be tough, I know my parents took my deployments hard. Keep sending the packages over there, they really mean a lot coming from your family.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maximal691 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 2:13am
If pete wants I can post pictures from my deployments in case he wants to doubt that too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 2:32am
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:

I did a quick search on the web for "oil pipeline break rupture spill" and I found a few days worth of reading including a spill into the Yellowstone river where they blamed the river. A few good ones in Canada recently.

I guess we can conclude that the safety of pipelines is about as safe as ab offshore drilling/oil rig or a tanker ship with a drunk captain.


Andy, what is your solution? Are you willing to stand by your convictions that oil is to dangerous and convert your car and boat to solar power? A higher price for gasoline is not going to change the safety of pipelines, and the alternative of bringing it by rail is probably higher risk. Everything has risk, ethanol is also transported by pipelines and rail cars and trucks, but it has less energy per gallon so it uses more resources to move the same amount of energy, it uses massive amounts of ground water for irrigation, and depletes soils of nutrients, not to mention it raises the price of corn based foods and puts out higher particulate pollution than gas, making it worse for asthmatics. Wind power kills millions of birds per year, 200 federally protected golden eagles yearly in the US alone.(Let an oil company do that and the sierra club would sue in an instant, but no wind farm has ever been charged or prosecuted) And it requires high power lines from the rural areas to the population centers. Solar only works during the day. Both solar and wind need traditional power plants to supplement them. You would have to completely cover all 60 million acres of An-war with solar or wind power to get the same energy that a few square miles of drilling site could provide. I have not even gone into the jobs part of the equation, competitive energy costs are a key factor for a business deciding where it will locate. So what is your solution?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 5:03am
A solution? Let's just use all the oil up and then someone will have to come up with an answer. The oil companies will have all the wealth in the world and they will come up with something else when there is no more oil to exploit. Maybe it will involve magnetism. It won't be in my lifetime.

I don't have the solution and if I did I sure wouldn't be posting on a website I'd be swimming in my trillions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 11:02am
nuke power and plug in cars, what is there to think about? there is enough uranium pulled out of warheads to power this country, hydro,
what do you guys sit there and think these physisists dont think about this or even the government?
there is plenty of LNG to power this nation, I wise man would suck the Middle East dry, and then use our own resources...and then they will call on us
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maximal691 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 12:41pm
The oil companies have too much power, you won't see any changes until were about empty. Then you will see new technology and ideas come forward.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 1:06pm
I think the ideas and technology are in place already, just a waiting game...Saudi Arabia is gearing up for tourism alread because of the fact that they is a gettin low, in hopes that tourism will replace the lost income of the crude.
Brazil is self reliant already, I know, I know, there will be alot of but, but, but ethanol....point being is they are using their own resources and are not relying on an outside sources.
Ive been following gas prices pretty closely and it does seem evertime, this time of year, they put the bait out there and people start to worry, they jack it 4.00 a gallon, reap the rewards and pull back some so you feel like your getting a deal, the car lots fill up with used SUV's big trucks, gas hogs, they pull back and the cycle starts agin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:

"Obama has stopped all offshore drilling"

Not true, do some research before you post BS.


Window glass I dont BS. He has blocked 103 new oil rigs for for offshore drilling. You dig..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 1:58pm
welp, ski, BP, just settled their 14 billion dollar lawsuit...i would say they do skip the democratic regulations???????? the oil rigs that is. righties, drill baby drill....lefties,drill safely drill safely.
there are so many pipeline ruptures that dont even make the news, 50k gallons into the water table, thats the *************** that we have to be careful of.
off shore out of mind?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 2:41pm
Eric,
I understand but there are things that do go wrong from time to time. So what if we followed the lefts idiology?? We be screwed. Look at Obama. We sure didnt have a problem with Bush..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 4:13pm

My son is in electronic surveillance . He calls the night before leaving Dubai going in to Afghanistan and again when back in Dubai on his way home. Dates and times are always fuzzy.

Your right about the care packages from home they go a long way. It really helps when times get tough.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 6:48pm
Ski you said Obama stopped ALL offshore drilling and that's not true. So just cut that jive.
George HW Bush is the President who banned offshore drilling in 1990.
President Obama is for limited offshore drilling, in March of 2010 he announced he was opening new areas to offshore drilling in US coastal waters shortly thereafter DeepSpill Horizon occurred becoming the largest oil spill in US history. Obama still did not ban it.

Obama opens new areas to offshore drilling
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 7:10pm
And Erics exactly right, they pull the old self fullfilling prophecy---they announce that gas is going up and they pick a number, a very profitable number like 5.00 a gallon, then the speculators jump in and buy the gas futures pushing the barrel price up to about 5.00 a gallon at the pump, for the consumers (you and me) it's like a redhot poker being shoved up your rearend and after a while they pull it out a little bit and everyone is relieved but the poker is still farther in than before. We are over 4.50 here now.

I will still go boating, it's still worth it to me, and I hope it reduces the number of huge wakeboard boats out on the Delta so I can more easily seek and find the smooth flat glass my feet crave.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SN206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:

I hope it reduces the number of huge wakeboard boats out on the Delta so I can more easily seek and find the smooth flat glass my feet crave.


Gas prices up Wake Rats down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SN206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by skicat2001 skicat2001 wrote:

Originally posted by SN206 SN206 wrote:

Well good to hear! Now we can ski! Now, all you have to do is trade in all that burnt orange crap for some quality Sooner Style!

O no! A damb sooner... A sooner.. O man


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 4:30am
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:

Ski you said Obama stopped ALL offshore drilling and that's not true. So just cut that jive.
George HW Bush is the President who banned offshore drilling in 1990.
President Obama is for limited offshore drilling, in March of 2010 he announced he was opening new areas to offshore drilling in US coastal waters shortly thereafter DeepSpill Horizon occurred becoming the largest oil spill in US history. Obama still did not ban it.

Obama opens new areas to offshore drilling


Obama put a moratorium on deep water drilling. It was successfully challenged in court but the administration kept the moratorium in place anyway. Since the moratorium was lifted 5 wells that were underway have resumed, and a whopping 1 new deep water well has been approved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 4:44am
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:

And Erics exactly right, they pull the old self fullfilling prophecy---they announce that gas is going up and they pick a number, a very profitable number like 5.00 a gallon, then the speculators jump in and buy the gas futures pushing the barrel price up to about 5.00 a gallon at the pump, for the consumers (you and me) it's like a redhot poker being shoved up your rearend and after a while they pull it out a little bit and everyone is relieved but the poker is still farther in than before. We are over 4.50 here now.

I will still go boating, it's still worth it to me, and I hope it reduces the number of huge wakeboard boats out on the Delta so I can more easily seek and find the smooth flat glass my feet crave.


People like to rip on the oil industry for profits but they run a pretty tight ship, making about 7 cents per gallon on gasoline. A very low ROI (return on investment) as compared to other industries (Verizon was near 100% ROI a few years back). They just happen to sell a lot of gallons. Nationwide combined government tax on gas averages 47 cents per gallon. Nearly seven time what oil companies make per gallon, and that is just at the pump, and does not include the taxes the oil companies pay on their income.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 4:58am
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

nuke power and plug in cars, what is there to think about? there is enough uranium pulled out of warheads to power this country, hydro,
what do you guys sit there and think these physisists dont think about this or even the government?
there is plenty of LNG to power this nation, I wise man would suck the Middle East dry, and then use our own resources...and then they will call on us


Eric, you are right, this could be an excellent solution, but we will need a lot more generating capacity to make it a reality. We already have rolling brown outs in California, what will it be like if we all plug in our cars every night? We should have stated building new nuke plants five years ago in preparation for the chevy volt today. We could drop our electrical prices, help out our industry, and reduce dependence, but how may new nuke plants have come on line in the last 20 years? Here in Minnesota then Governor Pawlenty signed onto a green energy mandate demanding I believe between 20-30% of our energy has to be from renewable sources. The renewables cost 30% more per kilowatt than coal fired or nuke, so all our bills have gone up, and we have to pay out more in energy assistance. This is one of the reasons Obama wants to subsidize electric cars with a 10 grand tax credit. We would not need the subsidy if we had cheap electricity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kristof Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 8:19am
It will soon be unaffordable to drive a decent car or boat over here... Just to put things into perspective for you Americans...
And, I converted the Euro/liter price into $/Gallon for you guys.

Gas prices in Europe at the moment:

Belgium:
Gasoline: 8,85 $/Gal
Diesel: 7,96 $/Gal

Germany:
Gasoline: 9,00 $/Gal
Diesel: 7,71 $/Gal

France:
Gasoline: 8,83 $/Gal
Diesel: 7,80 $/Gal

Holland:
Gasoline: 9,59 $/Gal
Diesel: 7,69 $/Gal

I just took Belgium and our neighbouring countries.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harddock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 10:01am
I see Europe still has diesel as the better (by no means great) value.
We have diesel at about $.50-.60 per gal higher. Add to that the pig urine additive to make the exhaust cleaner which adds another $.10 per gal,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 11:18am
you never heard this selfish American bitching about the price of gas Kristoff, it seems that we expect low prices just because? well maybe somewhere along the lines i bitched lol, we should rejoice gas is as low as it is, but i think we (US) pay a heavy price for cheap gas. i believe the mpg standard goes into effect in 2013, to where the US will be required to be under the same umbrella as Europe with the 34 mpg, now we are required to be at 24 MPG (democratic epa values) at the end of the day we shouldnt be worrying just about today, we need to worry about our kids furture also.
I hate squeezing that nozzle at the gas station, i normally do alot of driving, but if i could i would ride a bike back and forth.
When they jack that *************** up .25 cents a gallon, we still have no choice but to buy it, we are talking Billions in profits, such is why gas is a commodity, by low, pull out when high and profitable...the refineries (some of the finest) in the world, are bought and paid for, so the overhead is not really changing, I still can remember the rationing in 1974?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by Kristof Kristof wrote:

It will soon be unaffordable to drive a decent car or boat over here... Just to put things into perspective for you Americans...
And, I converted the Euro/liter price into $/Gallon for you guys.

Gas prices in Europe at the moment:

Belgium:
Gasoline: 8,85 $/Gal
Diesel: 7,96 $/Gal

Germany:
Gasoline: 9,00 $/Gal
Diesel: 7,71 $/Gal

France:
Gasoline: 8,83 $/Gal
Diesel: 7,80 $/Gal

Holland:
Gasoline: 9,59 $/Gal
Diesel: 7,69 $/Gal

I just took Belgium and our neighbouring countries.




I feel for you, that is what happens when you have a government that is not out to serve the people who support it, and is trying to socially engineer their behavior. Sadly our president worships that type of government, and we were dumb enough to elect him.

In the seventies we created the Department of Energy to fix all our energy problems. Here is their mission.

Mission

The Department of Energy's overarching mission is to advance the national, economic, and energy security of the United States; to promote scientific and technological innovation in support of that mission; and to ensure the environmental cleanup of the national nuclear weapons complex. The Department's strategic goals to achieve the mission are designed to deliver results along five strategic themes:

Energy Security: Promoting America's energy security through reliable, clean, and affordable energy.

Nuclear Security: Ensuring America's nuclear security.

Scientific Discovery and Innovation: Strengthening U.S. scientific discovery, economic competitiveness, and improving quality of life through innovations in science and technology.

Environmental Responsibility: Protecting the environment by providing a responsible resolution to the environmental legacy of nuclear weapons production
Management Excellence: Enabling the mission through sound management

45 years later we have not solved any of the problems, we have merely subsidized them. No one item on this list should trump another. Our president said early in his presidency that he wanted to see gas prices rise, just not to quickly (or in an election year). That is against the goal of providing affordable energy and having economic competitiveness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dochockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by Kristof Kristof wrote:

It will soon be unaffordable to drive a decent car or boat over here... Just to put things into perspective for you Americans...
And, I converted the Euro/liter price into $/Gallon for you guys.

Gas prices in Europe at the moment:

Belgium:
Gasoline: 8,85 $/Gal
Diesel: 7,96 $/Gal

Germany:
Gasoline: 9,00 $/Gal
Diesel: 7,71 $/Gal

France:
Gasoline: 8,83 $/Gal
Diesel: 7,80 $/Gal

Holland:
Gasoline: 9,59 $/Gal
Diesel: 7,69 $/Gal

I just took Belgium and our neighbouring countries.




Wow Here in Michigan its 3.89
what is the minimum wage there?
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