Baracks self assesment

harddock wrote: Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them. Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits? Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes? You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does. You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does. You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does. You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does. You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does. One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

IMHO it is just this level of apathy that has allowed the very few to control our government, and not be held responsible when they use it against the best interests of the country as a whole.   It is our government, our legislators, and our votes. All 300 million of us share the blame and benefit for what is done in our names. It is very easy to sit in an easy chair and complain about the state of affairs but not a whole lot want to do anything about it. I hear the same people that complain that lawmakers make too much money say that they would never run office. We want to condemn these people, but we make the jobs into something that only pays off for the dishonest or the independently wealthy. Then we complain when we end up with crooks and people who only serve the interests of the wealthy.   

Another annoyance of mine with the people of today is the complete lack of value we place on experience. We demonize those that have been around long enough to be wrong, see the results of their being wrong and learn not to be wrong in the future as being “career” politicians and “flip-floppers”.

Either America is exceptional because of its constitutional democracy or it isn’t. I don’t know how some hate the results of the democracy as laid out in the constitution but claim exceptionalism and to be constitutional originalists. Freedom isn’t free, get off your arses and do something about it, or shut the heck up. If the ability to vote for our representatives isn't what we love about america what was it that we loved again?

I loved the media response to Mitt say thing he liked to be able to fire people that provide him services… they wanted to talk about it being a symptom of him being out of touch and cruel.   I just thought he was making the point for government run healthcare… 95% of the insured in this country have no ability to “fire” their health care insurance provider as they are chosen by their employer. In a government run system those responsible for it are directly answerable to the electorate and can be fired every election cycle.

Self-governing is a serious responsibility.   These people are our representatives.. their vote is our vote. What they do, they do in our name and not just on the big hot button issues that define who is “conservative” and who is “liberal”. If you live in a district with moron’s and they elect a moron that moron still represents you. Call them, write them, go to dinner with them, lobby them… maybe one of you will teach the other something. If not run against them.

there is no man on this earth immune to a hundred bill, look at it this way, what if one came to you and said legitmately, I have $100,000 in this briefcase and i want to purchase your boat...no we all look for monetary selfishness gains in life...me personally would say nah, but 90 will work lol.
its just the way things are, power and money equal corruption, come on really? Insider trading only privy to the ones with the money and their families? when your in a position to make a decision and you can benefit from it, your gonna go that route, people with money have a sense that they will lose that money as easy as they got it, they cherish it and want more of it. were the ones not use to having money
and we put trust into the ones that do....really at the end of the day, even this 400 page political discussion is about the almighty dollar.
thats why im always on taxing the rich bandwagon and letting them pay their fair share, you never hear me bickering about myself wanting to pay 10% in taxes, it would be nice but I follow the law...well lately though...cash is king, i just want to see the rich pay their fair share. i get a sense that many here feel sorry for the rich and i dont understand why. these rich we are talking about are the politicians we elect and they have the power to make others rich and we sacrifice. Madoff is a good example, he got caught and was used as an example, he's not the only one doing Ponzi's

anything over a million a year, 35%
Mi-Nick, what would you consider a prestigous occupation?
remeber one thing, the richest profession is from sales. allright, gave you a minute, a doctor that saves lives, not to many of them make a million a year. a man could easily make one sale and make more in that second than a doctor makes all year, easy come easy go

you decide in tax brackets and income

eric lavine wrote: anything over a million a year, 35% Mi-Nick, what would you consider a prestigous occupation? remeber one thing, the richest profession is from sales. allright, gave you a minute, a doctor that saves lives, not to many of them make a million a year. a man could easily make one sale and make more in that second than a doctor makes all year, easy come easy go you decide in tax brackets and income

do you think it's fair that many people pay $0 income tax yet receive benefits from the government?? I don't.

i would consider business owner to be a prestigious occupation. and as for sales and making tons of money quickly...I wish I was smart enough to figure out how to do that. most millionaires did not start out that way...they figured out how...again, I wish I was that smart...

Eric. You are a very glass half empty guy, the 300 million guy paid 45 million in taxes. I say thank you for doing way more than your share.

if you do take home that kinda money, your robbing your company, no matter how you spin it, its stealing

per dollar yes, not their percentage, 300 million is a long long long way away from this countries average income which is 26k per year, what your listing is not a burden, who would have more of a burden if the tax rate went up 10% on both levels? someone making the 26k will because they are living paycheck to paycheck, my god you can see inflation surpassed the average increase of income at 4% a year creating a deficit at home,
take away 10% from the rich bastard and he wont even flinch at the thought of it

when you say thank you for paying your share, they really are not paying their share, yes in volume they are but not the same percentage as me and you....that was the concept in 59 when the tax rate was 91% on personals, it encouraged you not to take home a 300 million, or for the time 10 million, if you change the laws people will still prosper no matter what.
in reality he is going by the tax laws and he snickers because they are tailored to the rich folk, made by the rich folk. the 91% was geared to re-invest back into your company and employ more people, the American way in 59, well we lost sight of the American business practices, its take the money and run

Eric and John hit it on the head, at least from my point of view.

Dave and others, I am also curious as to your answer to this question; Is there not something to be said for the idea that those who have benefited the most from our society (e.g. the "wealthy") should also pay a greater share in taxes? I don't think the Waltons of Walmart would be anywhere without all of the taxpayer funded roads, education, law enforcement, etc. that allows them to make their millions in the first place.

I'd also like to tip my hat to Joe at the top of the page. I too am sick of people complaining about the people WE (that is YOU and I) elect to office. As they say, "In a democracy people get the government they deserve..." A sobering thought in these troubled times.

Cheers!

Hansel wrote: Eric and John hit it on the head, at least from my point of view. Dave and others, I am also curious as to your answer to this question; Is there not something to be said for the idea that those who have benefited the most from our society (e.g. the "wealthy") should also pay a greater share in taxes? I don't think the Waltons of Walmart would be anywhere without all of the taxpayer funded roads, education, law enforcement, etc. that allows them to make their millions in the first place.

Jamin, Good to see you back! I think I get labelled as being for the rich when in fact I am against more spending. The less we spend the less we would have to argue over who pays what. The president proposes we spend 3.7 trillion dollars in his new budget, that is a staggering amount of yours and my money. History shows that whenever the government gets more money they spend it and then some. I simply believe the money is better in the hands of those that earn it, and that when we re-distribute it we reward those that are not producing at a cost to those that do.

I am not suggesting that taxes should be like going to MacDonald's where everyone pays for what they consume, Although there is an argument to be made that that is truly "fair". Currently the top 1% pays 38 % of federal taxes, and the top 10% pays 70%, the bottom 50 percent pays nothing or are net receivers of government funds. So the rich are paying their fare share, and 50% of the population definitely are not because they pay nothing.

More importantly is what is good for the economy. I have yet to meet a guy on unemployment who gets his 800 dollar check and uses it to create a factory that employs hundreds of people. In most cases I have heard them say, great I can stay home for another week. However you tax a rich guy at 25 % on capital gains instead of 30% and he is likely to take his millions and look for opportunities with it. he might re-invest and help pay for businesses to grow or he might start his own business, and employ many. This is pretty simple stuff if you thing it through. what our government needs now is to get people back to work, not to pay for more of them to remain idle. when people work there is a multiplier effect, they pay taxes instead of receiving them, they spend what they earn,everything gets better. that is whay we need to stop burdening our businesses so that they will create jobs here in our country, not be chased away or scared into holding their money.

Flip your observation upside down. Where would the government be without the Waltons and the rest of the top 1% that pays 38% of the taxes.

zuckerburg is coughing up 35% which eqautes to 2 billion, now thats a tax bill, i really would be pissed about Romney paying 15%, something is wrong there Dave
remember, that guy doesnt hoard his 800 bucks in a account, he goes out and spends it, they are taxed on the unemployment also, people come across hard times and thats what unemployment was set up for
last report Dave, people are going back to work, cycle over?

That’s right you earned your money and you should keep it.. pay no attention to the fact that your education and the education of those you work with and work for you enable you to make it. Pay no attention to the roads that allow you to get to your place of business, pay no attention to the epa that was needed to clean up the destruction to the environment caused by people acting only in their own interests and not considering the other millions dependent on that lake, river, gulf, etc. Have no guilt over feeding and clothing the soldiers that fought to provide your freedoms. You probably won’t need police to keep people from stealing your stuff, or a court system, or any of the benefits produced by government funded medical research, materials research or anything else. None of those things contributed to where you are, if you were born in the deserts of Africa surely you would have risen to the same heights. Bill gates, steve jobs, these men certainly didn’t need the infrastructure of America to change the world. That is your money, all yours that government didn’t do nuthin for ya… America provides you no special advantage worth paying your share for..   
What a world some live in…

eric lavine wrote: sht, Dave the only reason work is going offshore is because of incentives, its cheaper because the laws are written that way

This is sooo 2003, the smart money has already started shipping work back to the US, don't you guys keep up with the times dont follow the lemmings

sorry, the word is was....oh,and i forgot to mention my tag shopping too.....I was sitting at my daughters softball practice on Sunday, out of 8 guys wearing Nike's, i was the only one wearing New Balance, felt pretty good cause i know that some of my money stayed here to pay the unemployment bene's to the poor instead of China's under 13 working class lol
my buddies machine shop cant keep up in the last 6 months, thats my gauge to tell me that the economy is swinging

i dont think overspending is the problem, well maybe the get rich quick chasing towels maybe, for the most part it is lack of revenue, no one works no one pays taxes, i really think its a better system spending money within these walls, no matter who holds the card or who is spending it, cash flow stimulates, remember the 1000.00 bucks Bush gave away...it was supposedly to stimulate or spur the economy....thats what its about