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$4 gas... question?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malcolm2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Hansel Hansel wrote:

Hi Ernest,

I am sure that you know more about running and operating a small business than I ever will. I think I follow your argument, and I can find little wrong with it.

I want to make it clear that I am NOT for raising taxes on small business owners. I am also NOT for raising taxes on middle to low income Americans. I am not really even in favor of raising taxes on people who make $1 million a year. I am talking about people who make tens, to hundreds, to even billions of dollars annually paying a lower tax rate than you and I.

Just think about this; if you made $50,000 at year for 50 years you would gross $2.5 million in lifetime earnings. To make a billion dollars you would have to work like that for 400 lifetimes, or 20,000 years. Let's even be generous and say you make $1 million annually... It would still take you 1000 years or 20 lifetimes of working to make $1 billion.

People that make that much money are not even in the same universe as us. Failure to tax them is leading directly to revenue shortfalls as I have pointed out. We have a spending problem in part, not in whole but in part, because we fail to collect from them what we could an I believe should. I stand by that statement and that is where I am going to leave it.

I tire of these endless debates... I am pretty sure that I can see your point of view and I agree in principle and in practice with much of what you say. Can you not see some truth in my position as well? Why does it always have to be one way or the other. We need to cut spending AND raise taxes. It is the only reasonable way forward.


I also tire of this debate, but people need to know.....you know the top bracket is 35% for MFJ at $379K. So if you make 1 million then you are taxed 35 cents on every dollar over $379K or $217,000 in tax for that $621,000 you earned over $379K. That sounds like a very unfair share to me. Over 22% for his total AGI. http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

You should spend some time and find out how many people fall into the "earned $1 million a year" category you are so jealous of. You would find that there aren't that many people out there that you want to subsidize the rest of us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wakeboardin2k4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 6:24pm


Enjoying this discussion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harddock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 6:40pm
It is propoganda and Fuzzy math. The wealthy ( making over $250K ) is not just Warren Buffet, Donald Trump, and all the executives of wall street. It includes every small buisiness that makes over $250 K. That amount doesen't take long for a company with 10 - 50 employees, in some businesses even less. If your company is about to be penalized for doing good they will not have the capital to get bigger and or more competitive. Real big companies can then swallow them up and use their offshore factories to make the goods which leave unemployement.

Unemployment is another area where the government tries to distort the facts. Say 2 million people get laid off in 2008 and can collect for 52 weeks. Then they are off the books. Another 2 million in 2009 get laid off but the government has 2 million coming off the books. In reality we now have 4 million out of work but we wrote off 2 million and because they aren't collecting the governmnet pretends they are working and claim they created 2 million new jobs. It is all just Fuzzy math
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 62 wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by wakeboardin2k4 wakeboardin2k4 wrote:



Enjoying this discussion





...and I am just trying to figure out the $4/gallon gas... which by the way isnt quite there yet... most local stations went to 3.99.9 this morning ... dang they missed an opportunity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweet77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 7:02pm
I bought gas today and paid $3.69
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweet77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 7:16pm
Maybe my math is wrong. im not very smart but i thunk in 1970 you could buy a brand new car for about 2800.00 bucks, now a new car is close to 28000.00 buck thats 100% increase i think now a gallon of gas was about .36 and now its 3.70 which is about 102% increase give or take a few dollars so my question is why is everyone aggravated at the government and oil companies and not at the auto manufactures who have increased there prices just as much and most of THEM took bailout money. once again i dont like to see $100.00 go down the tube just like everyone else but the price of everything has went up. The only thing that i see that is really skewed is the average income in1970 was around 10k a year for an average household ......I think .....i just pulled these numbers off of a census report now the average income is around 43k which once again is around 43% increase if my numbers are right which they could be.... i see something terribly wrong here but what do i know???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweet77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 7:22pm
someone tell me if im off so ill know id like to learn more about where my money really goes and to also find out where to draw MY political line in the sand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 62 wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by sweet77 sweet77 wrote:

Maybe my math is wrong. im not very smart but i thunk in 1970 you could buy a brand new car for about 2800.00 bucks, now a new car is close to 28000.00 buck thats 100% increase i think now a gallon of gas was about .36 and now its 3.70 which is about 102% increase give or take a few dollars so my question is why is everyone aggravated at the government and oil companies and not at the auto manufactures who have increased there prices just as much


My parents bought a new 21" color tv with the optional remote control(yep you used to have to pay extra for a remote..LOL) back in 1969. That tv cost over a grand... you can buy a pretty NICE one today with that grand!

Technology and option wise, todays $28,000 cars are NOT even close to what we bought in 1970. $2,800 in 1970 bought you a modest car(Malibu,Skylark, etc.). the options were AC, power windows, and maybe an AM-FM radio. Even with the price increase of the cars, it was GRADUAL, not in a few months.

My point is, in the past our econmomy had been based on "cost of living" increases.. usually modest 3-6%/year. And it was pretty even across the board. I DONT see that here...


And your "spot on" with wage increases not keeping pace with the cost of living for the middle class..

.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hansel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by 62 wood 62 wood wrote:

And your "spot on" with wage increases not keeping pace with the cost of living for the middle class...


I'll give you one guess as to where all the economic gains over the last few decades have been going. Not to sound like a broken record but, you guessed it, the top of the income ladder took the vast majority...

See wealth change for yourself.

I just want to clarify here, as I did on another thread a while back, that my opinions and beliefs are NOT rooted in jealousy or envy as many of you seem to suspect. I have a good job with benefits and live a far more comfortable life than I deserve.

Why is raising taxes always automatically off the table? Especially at a time of supposed "shared sacrifice?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wingwrench Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by Hansel Hansel wrote:



See wealth change for yourself.

I just want to clarify here, as I did on another thread a while back, that my opinions and beliefs are NOT rooted in jealousy or envy as many of you seem to suspect. I have a good job with benefits and live a far more comfortable life than I deserve.
Why is raising taxes always automatically off the table? Especially at a time of supposed "shared sacrifice?"



Then don't rely on left leaning Soros funded organizations for your information. They get money from OSI.

Raising taxes to solve this problem no different than going to your boss and asking for a raise because you maxed out your credit cards and bought a house and car you can't afford to pay for. Try it and let us know how it works out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emccallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 9:46pm
Well,
if I really thought additional taxes would solve the problem, I would probably sign on and gladly share in the sacrifice. However, for example, we have been pumping money into education for decades and we aren't any better off than we were 30 years ago. The only people in education that seem to be doing well are the administrators and the teachers unions! How come the gvt keeps telling us if we just fund this or that program some more all will be fine. They never solve a problem or eliminate an agency or lay off an employee. I will say it again.... the gvt has a spending problem! Not a revenue problem. The gvt is going to run out of other peoples money. You cant have more takers than producers.

If you want shared sacrifice move to the Soviet Union....wait they went under. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" (Karl Marx, 1875)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harddock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 10:49pm
I know it financially would not make any difference but I would like Congress, especially the newbies offer some sacrifice on their part. Term limit, no pension, no auto raise, just something to show they are not above the frey and willing to feel our pain.

It's hard for me to understand how they know what is right for me when they are in such a different league.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 11:42pm
I lost my phone line this weekend and have been without a computer with internet service, I have been following threads on my phpne but hate to reply with it. Needless to say I have been going nuts wtih some of the commentary.


Originally posted by horkn horkn wrote:

I think once the richest people get taxed accordingly, that all the complaining and bickering over these little issues will die out. Once the middle class don't have to pay the majority of taxes it will free up a lot more usable income.

Yes, it does all go back to that.


What is the source of information you base this hypothsis on? I remember the Jimmy Carter years where the rich were taxed at higher rates.
1) The middle class still complained

2) Government collections went down, and did not go up untill tax rtates were cut by Reagan (see Laffer curve)

3) Unemployment was 10+ percent

4)Inflation was 10+ percent

Be carefull what you wish for, you might get it. I am sure taxing ht e rich would make you feel better but kansian economics do not work long term, never has.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

I swear to God, i am doing more and more cash transactions everyday, i believe people have switched their mindset, im getting used to saying, "on the books its this much" not because of me even though i prefer cash.

when is somebody going to complain that i dont charge enough? lol


Eric, be carefull about putting that in print.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by horkn horkn wrote:

I'm sorry if you need to resort to name calling. It's the easy way for those that can't argue their point properly to make them feel better.

I respect dave (overmyhead) and anyone else that can make their points without name calling.

One thing that bothers me is how news and other sources call democrats "liberals", when the mirror image negative connotation term from republicans is repugnicans is not ever used on media?



Tom, Thanks for the props, I do my best to keep the name calling in check because we all have more in common than we have differnces, and I consider nearly every one here a friend. I try hard to never say anything that would make me feel uncomfotable when meeting someone in person at a reunion. I also know you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar (of course you can catch the most with a dead gopher carcus).
I believe liberals first gave themselves that label, then they tarnished it. Same with progressive. If you watch the media they call republicans conservatives, right wing, and sometimes angry right wing conservatives. It does not bother me, I am proud to call myself conservative, but not always a republican.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2011 at 12:07am
Originally posted by Hansel Hansel wrote:

I just got back from a week and a half overseas where there is <7% unemployment, nationalized healthcare, great roads and infrastructure, and one of the lowest rates of national debt in the world.

And they achieve all of this with gasoline at ~$8/gallon, a top tax bracket of 45%, and 2-3 years of near universal compulsory military service (men & women) at their life's prime.

Where is this fantasy land you ask? Israel. A nation completely surrounded by enemies and with few natural resources.

Don't buy the hype...


45% taxes and mandatory military service is not my idea of a fantasy land, but if it works for you, consider moving. I dont say this to be mean, you seem like an intellegent and well meaning person but lots of people believe the US in its founders vision is a fanatasy land. This is the only country that is based on individual rights and freedoms. For those that love socialism there are plenty of countries out there where the fantasy can be lived out. This country is the only one where mine can be lived, and I dont want anyone screwing it up.
As for the military thing I am against mandatory service because I would not want my back being covered by someone that did not want the job. I did not serve and in my "prime" i dont feel I should have. I dont think I understood things and woulod have had the commitment till I was in my 30's and then I felt my responsibilities where to my wife and kids. I do wonder if it was mandatory what I would have become from the experience. I have great respect for thaose that serve, and regret that I did not have the maturity in my youth to understand its importance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2011 at 12:22am
Originally posted by wakeboardin2k4 wakeboardin2k4 wrote:


Gun-driver I have been researching biodiesel for the last 6 months and am soon going to set up a little biodiesel maker at home. I have a 119 gallon hot water heater for my set up. Post some pictures of your set up. Its always cool to see other peoples designs

I'm in the process of spring cleaning, let me get things under control and I'll snap some pics for you.

PS: I try not to talk politics it tends to make me want to pull my issued sidearm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2011 at 1:39am
Originally posted by OverMyHead OverMyHead wrote:


45% taxes and mandatory military service is not my idea of a fantasy land, but if it works for you, consider moving. I dont say this to be mean, you seem like an intellegent and well meaning person but lots of people believe the US in its founders vision is a fanatasy land. This is the only country that is based on individual rights and freedoms. For those that love socialism there are plenty of countries out there where the fantasy can be lived out. This country is the only one where mine can be lived, and I dont want anyone screwing it up.
As for the military thing I am against mandatory service because I would not want my back being covered by someone that did not want the job. I do wonder if it was mandatory what I would have become from the experience. I have great respect for thaose that serve, and regret that I did not have the maturity in my youth to understand its importance.


Boy Dave do I agree with that,if the grass is greener somewhere else,go.
But on the mandatory military thing I think you'd change your mind if we did it to protect ourselfs rather than the thankless job of policing the rest of the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkhallpass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2011 at 3:35am
Originally posted by sweet77 sweet77 wrote:

someone tell me if im off so ill know id like to learn more about where my money really goes and to also find out where to draw MY political line in the sand


Well, I don't know what to tell you about politics, but your math is way off.

An increase from 2,800 to 28,000 is a 900% increase.

An increase from 10,000 to 43,000 is a 330% increase.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2011 at 9:38am
Dave, I do report it

here is a fact in caps ONE POINT FIVE TRILLION has been spent in Iraq, just think if that money was invested here in the country, that would be one helluva stimulas check...
so i guess if we didnt keep our men and woman in uniforms busy, they would be part of the unemployment equation? we could probably keep them hand in hand at the borders instead of an fence?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2011 at 9:55am
so, answer honestly, you wouldnt take a lottery pay off because you would have to pay close to 40% in taxes? i dont think you would mind
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2011 at 11:08am
Sure I would take it, but if we are talking millions I would consult a tax attorney before I cashed it. If setting up a residence in south dakota, florida, or the bahamas would let me keep 65% or 70% or 90%, I will put in that adress change. money gives you resources to do things like owning multiple homes. buying a 100 grand condo somewhere to net millions is a no brainer. Raising tax rates cannot be done in a "vacume" like physics for every action there will be an equal and opposite reaction. No one likes getting screwed, no matter how much money they have. Look at the examplesof states that have put surcharges on the rich. try to find someone with a college degree in michigan these days. The educataed and wealthy are leaving that state in droves, putting furhter tax burden on the middle class, same with Mass. I believe they are the state that put additional taxes on millionaires 2 years ago, and they somehow "lost" about a fourth of them and collections in that income catagorie decreased dispite the higher rates. Eric, you say you have not raised your rates in years, why not? Do you fear it would result in fewer customers and less income? If people feal you are treating them fairly and they are getting good value for their money they will stay loyal for ever, but if they feel taken advantage of they will take action and take their dollars elswhere. Taxes work the same way, the rich have choices.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 62 wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2011 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by OverMyHead OverMyHead wrote:

Eric, you say you have not raised your rates in years, why not? Do you fear it would result in fewer customers and less income? If people feal you are treating them fairly and they are getting good value for their money they will stay loyal for ever, but if they feel taken advantage of they will take action and take their dollars elswhere. Taxes work the same way, the rich have choices.


I cant speak for Eric, but I'm probably in the same situation. today I cant get the margin I once did on my product for one main reason... COMPETION.. there is always someone who wants to sell something for a little less. An average kitchen is costing me between $400 and $600 more to get here today than it did just last fall... I have a hard time "tacking" that on at the bottom of my bid. And with a lot of products, today with the internet, anyone can pretty much find "The best deal" and have it shipped to their door.


Loyalty?... for the most part you can forget that, in the last 15 to 20 years the percentage of customers that stay loyal "forever" are in the minority. If your lucky previous customers will at least give you the opportunity to bid on a project for them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malcolm2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2011 at 3:04pm
From the 40's..... I wish that the breakdown was on the pumps now. I have seen some here in TN and I believe that about $0.35 is tax. I bet the govt wishes they had used a % now that prices are moving 5 cents a day.....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hansel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2011 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by wingwrench wingwrench wrote:

Then don't rely on left leaning Soros funded organizations for your information. They get money from OSI.

Raising taxes to solve this problem no different than going to your boss and asking for a raise because you maxed out your credit cards and bought a house and car you can't afford to pay for. Try it and let us know how it works out.


Feel free to research the phenomenon for yourself; you may not like the website on which the chart can be found but even if you shoot this messenger you can't kill the army of empirical data that it represents; Google search "wealth disparity in america".

I find your metaphor of asking my boss for a raise because I maxed out my credit cards wanting. If "I" represent the nation at large, I am unsure as to who our nation's boss is. Certainly the credit card makes sense (borrowing from foreign nations, bonds, etc.). I think a more appropriate metaphor would be refusing to take cash out of my "lucky" bank account or seek a second job to cover my bills even though I was perfectly capable of doing one or both of these. Hopefully I'd also stop spending on things that I don't absolutely need. As I've said a bunch of times I think in real life if any of us were faced with a financial crisis we would try to tap other sources of wealth (a 2nd job, rainy day savings, etc.) and try to save money where we can (no more dining out, buying new toys, etc.). Increasing taxes is not like asking for a raise (i.e. more money for the same amount of work). It is like taking on second job or dipping into your savings, a sacrifice that you must make because of past decisions. You know, maybe it would be like asking your boss for extra hours at work. Is there anything wrong with that?

Ernest, I hear you on the "why give money to useless government programs." I think you make a legitimate point, though I wonder if you could provide some more specifics so that we could assess its merits further.

Dave, I was not living then and don't know much about the economic situation of the late 1970s or the drivers of those statistics that you cite. I'd be willing to bet that taxes rates were not the primary cause and the little bit I have read on the subject point to monetary policy rather than tax policy as the culprits in this instance. Please correct me if I am wrong.

As to moving out of the country, well don't think it isn't on my mind! That said I find it a remarkable thing to even consider, and I am not sure where else I would go as there seems to be a general malaise throughout most of the West (as far as I can tell based on conversations with lots of folks).

I find it rather ironic that Dave says that he would do whatever he could to avoid paying taxes ("the rich have choices"), only to be immediately followed by Steve lamenting about the lack of customer loyalty...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 62 wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2011 at 12:52am
Originally posted by Hansel Hansel wrote:


I find it rather ironic that Dave says that he would do whatever he could to avoid paying taxes ("the rich have choices"), only to be immediately followed by Steve lamenting about the lack of customer loyalty...



"Jamin"... I have been involved in retail since 1970. (not sure of your experiences?) All I am saying is the times have changed a LOT. Both the way people buy and the fact there is little of what I consider true loyalty today.

With the way the economy is, PRICE is one of the first considerations in most purchases I personally see, followed by quality and service.

I dont mean to sound like I'm lamenting, I am just stating facts......
Frustrated at times?...yes... kinda hard not to be when most of our expenses are skyrocketing out of control and profit margins are the smallest they have ever been.

Not sure I have ever seen what you do for a living ... just curious?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hansel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2011 at 1:51am
Hi Steve,

I was not digging at you at all, or even Dave so much for that matter. I just found it slightly humorous that the idea of tax wrangling is incompatible with the ideas of national loyalty, if you want to call it that, and thus by extension the virtue of customer loyalty as well IMHO.

I for one try to spend money on local businesses and people that do a good job, even if that means paying more. I'd rather spend more on my neighbor than send it to some CEO somewhere.

What I do is a good question, and surely has a lot of bearing on my view of the world. I am a postgraduate student that studies science, and I'd be completely lying if I wasn't fully aware that I am in what I often refer to as the "brain trust" or "the bubble." On the one hand I don't have a lot of personal experience with things like running a small business or having a family. On the other I am "free" to spend my days thinking about big scale issues and complicated systems, which is a very interesting privilege. I also get to travel a fair deal and interact with a lot of people from around the world.

I probably come across as adversarial, and that is somewhat on purpose since I do oppose some of your (you specifically and "you" as in other's) points of view. But I do yet believe that we want the same things and that we generally have much much more in common than either of us probably thinks. So please take my posts as my attempt to present an opposing point of view. Reading your and other's posts often changes how I look at things, and I hope that in some small way mine might do the same from time to time.

Blah, blah, blah...(I also don't know when to shut up). Hopefully one of these days I'll get to meet you on the water with a beer in our hands. Also, no need to use quotes on my given name!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2011 at 2:51am
Jamin, I dont see you as advesarial, just as someone with a point of view enjoying a debate. It is the same with me. Look into Jimmy Carters overall philosophy, monetary policy and taxation ideas. You will find them scarily similar to those of Obama,but Obama is Carter on steroids. It did not work then and it looks more disasterous now. It may help if you look at the "rich" as consumers rather than just a bucket of money, and the government as a service provider ( which it is supposed to be). You stated in another post that you were not sure who the boss was in our government scenario. It is not congress or the president. Our constitution is based on individual rights. there is no provision for group rights in its origins. The individuals have inaliable rights. The citizens grant the government limited rights as spelled out in the constituion. WE are the bosses. The government is to serve us. Back to the rich, as consumers of government they will act like consumers, looking for quality services at reasonable prices. Most consumers expect to pay for what they get, and get what they pay for. If they feel they are not being treated fairly they will will look for services elsewhere or choose not to participate. If you opened a auto dealership that sold cars based on ability to pay and ran against dealerships that charge the actual cost for the vehicle who would your customers be? The Rich would go to the dealership that charged them for just the car, and the poor would go to your dealership looking for a hand out. Who then would pay for all those cars going to the poor for little or nothing? The only way that system works is if you legitimize a way to force redistribution of wealth.

I am old fashioned for my age. I believe in following some simple guidlines like the golden rule, treat others as you wopuld like to be treated. I bet you feel the same way, but to me you put a twist on that that I can not understand. I believe I am responsible for myself, and I believe god has graced me with abilities that I should share with others through charity. I am guessing you believe if you where unable to care for yourself you would like the government to be there to help you, so you want the government to be there to help others. The difference is to realize your dream involves taking from others to fund your ideal. My version reguires me to give of myself. I believe that self reliance is good for the "sole". and I believe that giving charitably is also good for the sole. When the government redistributes wealth it takes away from both sides of the equation. leaving a bunch of unhealthy soles.
For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 62 wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2011 at 3:15am
Jamin,
Your profile is pretty much empty and I figured it was an alias....my bad..I sincerely apologize on the quotes on your name.


In case you havent guessed, It has been a frustrating couple of years....

..... A quick history.. I started designing kitchens in 1975. My wife and I for various reasons, started our own kitchen business in 1986. Our lifetime dream! Starting the business was hard, lots of hours for very little pay... most money was re-invested back into the business. We had only one real vacation, (a ten day one), in the first 15 years... but that was OK... it was an investment in our future.

In our 17th year, we were finally to the point we could hire an employee to help with the work. In his 4th and 5th year he was actually starting to make us a little profit...yippie! We could take a week off again, and a couple of times a year at that! WOW!! this is what it's "supposed" to be like!

Enter the year 2008. Things started to slow down...($4 gas?) Hey it was just a little "blip" in the economy...its happened before.. we'll get thru it.. Fall '08 and the elections, sales continued to drop, but Hey, its election year...things have GOT to get better ..right?

Fast forward spring/early summer 09... Still NO sales (3 kitchens in six months) During that six months,I am paying my employee full pay to try and keep him ... the economy HAS to get better, right? . My wife and I were literally taking home no pay...living off of savings. Well, when the savings was gone, a decision had to be made to lay off our employee of six years.

Now,two more years of very so-so sales...(here's where you can enter the price / loyalty / low profit issues)

So, here I am today, getting to be an old man..no real savings..investments in the pot, sales/profit still low, expenses at an all time high.. Working tons of hours, with no one to help us.( the cabinets feel like they are getting heavier LOL) ....wondering HOW will we EVER be able to retire?

I DONT want to complain..these are simply the facts.If I sometimes come across a "bit negative", I apologize, that really is not my meaning. This is real life. I pray to the Lord every day that He guides us thru and He always has... He has a larger purpose for all of this! (with my thick skull, I just dont seem to be able to figure out what ;) .

(so much for a "quick history")

btw...your on for that beer!    you planning Green Lake?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hansel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2011 at 4:11am
Hi Dave,

Good breakdown of your position. Thanks for always reading what I write, I enjoy doing the same for you. Yes, I believe that one of the legitimate purposes of government is to provide a "safety net" when circumstances require.

Steve,

No worries on the name. It is odd enough that you should be able to figure out who I am with relative ease, plus I don't like to put up certain personal info (birth date, etc.) so that is why the profile is rather thin. I like that people are up front about who they are on this site (Pete keeps everybody honest on this!). It is not so most places on the "internets."

Thanks for telling your story. I respect you greatly for all the hard work you have put in during you lifetime, and don't see it for a one moment as complaining. As myself and other young people look to the future we can only have a similar pessimism, the difference being that we are only at the very beginning of our careers. We all have much to be both thankful and nervous about. You are about the age of my parents, aunts, and uncles. I see in you (and Dave) the work ethic and personal responsibility that I admire in them and helped me to get where I am today.

I've been wanting to attend Green Lake for about five years. Unfortunately being a field scientist I spend my summers "making hay" as it were so it hasn't happened yet and probably won't for the foreseeable future. The best I can hope for at the moment is to weasel in on some other event or catch CCFans if ever they are in Madison.

Best!

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