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95' Nautique Project ... expanded

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2018 at 8:58am
One of those little voices in my head says that maybe the timing will get retarded 8 degrees by the computer as if it was knocking.

I don't suppose you know what your base timing was set at last year.

It seems that the boat ran 44 or so mph so wherever the timing was set, it ran OK

Yet another voice says that "Joe won't leave this disconnected" he's been plenty anal so far and it won't change now
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 10:07pm
I figure that if your engine starts to knock, the computer won't retard the timing.

The engine would run fine with it disconnected like it was, it just wouldn't have the knock detection protection.

Then again I could be totally out to lunch

And my guess is corrosion is what broke those wires.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 9:42pm
I guess I need to repost now that I've finally located a diagram that shows that mysterious part - the knock sensor control module.   So my question now I suppose is if those two wires are critical to it's function or were they snipped by a tech as part of an update or "fix".   They look as though they've been cut for a while with all the corrosion and dirt, so I'm pretty sure it was like that when I bought the boat, ran her many times and although there were some hick-ups, I didn't feel there was a strong fault anywhere.

Ideas? Thoughts? Comical anecdotes?
JCCI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 5:27pm
And thanks for the question Gary ... because while I had it back on the bench I noticed something I hadn't seen before - a couple of wires that appear to be cut broken from fatigue.   I'm not sure what this thing is and would appreciate a little input here. I'm guessing this is a necessary item but not sure if the cut wires were intentionally cut??





I've reviewed a few wiring diagrams and can't seem to track this thing down.

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 5:18pm
No problem Gary



Injector side @ main



ECM side @ main


Let me know if you need some of the injector plugs

JCCI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 4:42pm
Joe can you post a couple of pictures of the injector harness,especially the plug where it plugs into the main harness. Do you think it is a proprietary plug? I know you can get the injector side plugs .That harness is 150 thru PCM if it even is available,if I can get thet plug I'll just make my own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 4:16pm
Good question Ken - didn't know there was such a monster. I had done very little untaping because much of the main stem was still in its original braided loom. What little I encountered didn't include that section of harness. I'll have to give it another look to see if I can track it down. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if it were missing .... if the boat would even run, that is.

Most of my issues were from the excessive amount of bare (exposed) wires where the PO had bypassed various areas with his own wire - a TON of which were really too short and had to be stretched, so to speak, to reach their destination and a few that had been spliced in with a mile too much wire and simply raveled up and stuffed in a corner. As such there was a fair amount of splicing to lengthen many of those and of course others that were cut down to the appropriate length. Then as you can see I covered all the exposed wires that I could with poly braid and finished with the glued shrink tubes. Naturally I installed all new breakers, relays and hardware after cleaning and painting the ECM bracket.   Sooo much cleaner looking than the jumbled maze that I inherited.

I did end up finding a couple of cropped pics of the old mess, not that you can really see enough to do it justice.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 9:08am
Hi Joe

Not knowing just what you did on the harness, here's a question for you.

Did you happen to find the diode in the purple wire between the EEC relay and your 8 pin connector?

It came up in this thread from DW SD last year and he never found it. He quit looking after he found his problem at the connector.

this thread


It might be good for you or others with a GT 40 at some point to know where it is

You can find the drawing in the GT40 service manual in the reference section.

It's section 3F-11 and 12. on page 220 of 301

I don't know if you untaped and retaped stuff, replaced wiring etc but this seems like the ideal time to find it, instead of when everything is installed and sometime in the future you're having a problem and are looking for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:58am
It's looking great. Nice work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 1:02am
Nice work on the wiring. Love it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 12:08am
It's been a couple weeks since the last update so I thought I'd let everyone know what I've been up to. In truth, I've been slacking a bit and haven't done much. I wasn't completely lax though - I was able to motivate myself to clean & recondition the distributor, transmission oil cooler, HP & LP fuel pumps, fuel lines, fittings and brackets and give everything a few good coats of paint. I'd share some pics of the process but honestly I find them a little mundane in comparison to much of the rest of the process.

Then this weekend I forced myself to tackle the wiring 'rats nest' that was the ECM, breakers & harness. I had at one time taken a picture of the mess that I was going to have to eventually deal with but had never downloaded it to the computer. Naturally a couple weeks ago my phone crashed, along with all my contacts & photos before I had a chance to back everything up. So no 'before' photos but trust me, it was a disaster.   I finally finished things up tonight and feel such a load off my shoulders I feel like I have to share the finished product.









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-08-2018 at 3:02am
Also just noticed that the new pad around the shifter looks like it's a couple shades off of black in the pic I posted - must be the angle or the light. In person and from different angles it's almost a perfect match.




And, the original intake as well as the plenum were powder coated red, which again I love.
But then I found this and the ol' teen hot rodder in me came out and I just had to snatch it up.




Not sure how that's all going to blend with the color scheme, but there's no denying the 40 or 50 pounds of weight difference

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-08-2018 at 2:51am
Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:

Love the RED.

KENO gives me a hard time about the red parts: distributor cap, valve covers, shirt, sunburn, bank account etc.

JQ


   Thanks, I love the red too, though I may end up with a bit more than planned. The powder coat shop got a bit confused and did the exhaust manifolds and risers in the red as well instead of black. They offered to redo them and I told them I'd see how it looked with the the rest bolted on first and let them know. But the more I look at them I'm kinda liking it. ... But we'll see what I think in 5 more weeks when I get the engine on the stand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-08-2018 at 1:30am
It's still "Team Red"

The knee is improving rapidly; Arthroscopic surgery is a modern medical miracle. My dad had the same injury in 1978. He ended up with a wicked 6 inch scar and a very looooong recovery period.

Kudos to Dr. Michael Holmstrom at Intermountain Health Care.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-07-2018 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:

Love the RED.

KENO gives me a hard time about the red parts: distributor cap, valve covers, shirt, sunburn, bank account etc.

JQ




I've been kinda slackin' it a bit though

I didn't say anything about the red NO on the good knee

[/QUOTE]   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-07-2018 at 7:34pm
Love the RED.

KENO gives me a hard time about the red parts: distributor cap, valve covers, shirt, sunburn, bank account etc.

JQ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2018 at 9:51pm
Well colder weather, work and the like has kept me from doing a whole lot lately, but considering I've got another 5 or 6 weeks before I get my long block from the machine shop I figure it's not going to hold the project up any.

In the mean time I continued to strip and repaint the remaining mounting brackets and the transmission oil cooler and also finally got around to making a new base for the trim around the new controls (shifter). Then took it to a local upholstery shop where they came very close to matching the black carbon fiber look vinyl that was used in the rest of the boat before I bought it. Not a 100% perfect match, but very close. Wish there could have been more padding in there but if I'd have had them make it as thick as the combing pad wouldn't have been able to shift





Also took the time to clean up the throttle body and related items and give the applicable parts a few coats of paint, then went ahead with the assembly to the plenum.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2018 at 11:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2018 at 8:29pm
Turn the junk block into a mailbox stand...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2018 at 11:03am
After much consideration and some input from a couple of mechanic buddies and my machine shop the block is indeed far beyond a salvageable state. However, the internals seem to be in very good shape. They all agree it's strange because a lot of the key components don't appear to have any wear at all - almost like they were brand new.   
So I figure I'll just part out the internals and various other extra parts when I'm done. But the block? Definitely an anchor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2018 at 3:39am
That is going to be one really fine 1995.
What did you decide to do with the 351W?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2018 at 9:30pm
Machine shop was back-logged 6 weeks or so at the time so it's just a waiting game now till then. I've got 85-90% of everything else done already so there's several weeks left to slowly get that to 100%. Engine bolt-ons are already back from the powdercoaters shop and half of the small brackets and such that I'm just cleaning up and painting are already done as well. I still need to apply the carpet on the kick and side areas of the observer seat and get the small interior piece around the controls to the upholstery shop. My office looks crazy ... new pieces and parts laying around everywhere and in the middle of it all is the engine cover    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KRoundy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2018 at 8:10pm
Good work. New carpet sure makes a huge difference. How does things on the engine front while you are fiddling with wiring and such?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2018 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

... this may be a good time to look at a higher amp alternator to handle your new amp draw


Yeah, I was seriously considering swapping to a higher amp alt now. If it weren't for already having a NIB Arco replacement that I bought last fall before I knew this whole process was going to take place as soon as it has.

Having said that, my last boat was quite a bit larger and had 8 component speakers and 2 large subs with over 2000 watts.   And 2 separate amps. I ran that system off of virtually the same set-up as I have now with the exception of the alternator, which was just the stock 8.1 Merc version, I think at 70 amps vs the 55 amp Arco I have. I never saw a fluctuation with that system because the real key is the batteries, not the alternator.

Amps, especially when powering high demand speakers like subs, require a very fast response from the power source. Alternators weren't designed to provide this. They get this power directly from the battery and if it isn't built to deliver this when called on you get drain from the rest of the system and a heavy load demand from the alternator (if the engine is running) which causes the lights, etc. to dim or pulse.

Most cranking batteries won't keep up with this either, and in fact if you try it can severely reduce the life expectancy of that battery. Cranking batteries were designed to be able to supply large amounts of power very quickly, yes - but only for a very short period of time. When you push them into continual high demand service, such as with a high demand audio system, they will fail very rapidly and you'll get the same pulsing and a very short usable charge. If/ when the charge drops below 10V you're damaging the battery and reducing it's life expectancy. Do that a dozen times over the course of a summer, even with a brand new battery, and it's likely going to be toast.

Deep cycle and dual purpose batteries for the most part will do the job and there are those that are purpose built for the task. And unlike cranking batteries, they can be nearly 100% discharged time after time and never reduce their life. They can also handle the riggers of high demand for long periods of time. Purpose built deep cycles can also provide the same, or near same performance right up to the very end of their charge, unlike typical batteries who's performance would slowly decline as the charge declines.

Just a bit of research from the old boat. It's actually come in very handy many times now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MechGaT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2018 at 5:04pm
Looks good. Keep it up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2018 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by Wisky Badger Wisky Badger wrote:

It looks great. Where did you order your carpet from and what Oz. is it?


Thanks ! I ordered carpet from Christine's. They have two oz options: 14 and 30(ish). I ordered the 14 because I was going to be cleaning up and reusing the carpet molding which on my era SN will only accept up to 16oz. And really, though it sounds good to have thick plushy carpet, in practical use it isn't a good idea because it stays damp much, much longer. My last boat had fairly thick carpet like that and it took forever to dry out. Didn't hurt anything really, but it was snap-out installed on a full fiberglass self bailing inner liner and it had rubber backing. But on a glue-down that's not very advisable even with my fiberglass floor - the excess moisture can breed mold and mildew in the right conditions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2018 at 4:41am
Very nice progress so far.   Looking at the Stereo set up you must be planning on rocking the entire lake. Might need a portable generator to help keep the batteries up!
Just joking but this may be a good time to look at a higher amp alternator to handle your new amp draw.
We had a GMC Denali with the Bose system and I don't think it was that big compared to many aftermarket systems but if you played the stereo loud while washing the car it would drain the battery.   Gave you about a one hour play time on the single 850 amp battery.   I added a second battery in it later. I think it had a factory 130 amp alternator.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wisky Badger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2018 at 2:30am
It looks great. Where did you order your carpet from and what Oz. is it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2018 at 12:38am
YAY, I"M   DONE !!!     All ready for boating season!    




Wait,   I think I may be missing something ....   maybe a few somethings     



5 weeks and counting .....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2018 at 12:30am
Just occurred to me Saturday I'd better get all the wiring for the amp and tower speakers done now, before the engine and interior get in my way.



Since I had to make new panels for the driver kick panel and side anyway I extended the side out to accommodate the long amp and extended both upward to move the bolt-ons higher to help avoid future damage.





Went ahead with the installation of the #2 battery - with the switch it can be isolated so it shouldn't interfere with the engine electronics installation. That way I could check out the new amp, make sure all is well. And all is well - sounds great with my 1 installed speaker! Can't wait to get the rest in ... but that'll have to wait till after the engine is in and running   
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