91 Excel, reverse rotation engine? |
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TX Foilhead ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: February-01-2009 Location: Kingsland TX Status: Offline Points: 2076 |
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My 93 is PRP-WR and the firing order is exactly opposite, so same crank spinning the other direction. The V drive is what changed.
There's really no reason why a GT40 couldn't run backwards if you switched the cam and the distributor gear. That computer isn't smart enough to need to know the difference. |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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This is from an 80's manual, so it's not complete with the later configurations, but the convention should be consistent.
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1StopJeff ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: May-10-2012 Location: Granite Bay, CA Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Okay, here is a picture of the engine plate from my boat. Looks like a reverse direction engine looking at the firing order.
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1991 Nautique Excel
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Yes, as indicated by the PRD as well.
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1StopJeff ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: May-10-2012 Location: Granite Bay, CA Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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1991 Nautique Excel
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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The 3rd digit is a clue as to why the firing orders are different (they are not opposite). Take a look at the decoder I posted above.
D = 351w K = 454 |
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1StopJeff ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: May-10-2012 Location: Granite Bay, CA Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Ah, one is a Ford and one is Chevy and the cylinder numbering is different. Now Benj, the R does not indicate Reverse but Right-hand from the back... of the motor? Which would be the same as Reverse? |
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1991 Nautique Excel
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Cylinder number and firing orders are very different between a small block Ford and big block Chevy, yes.
Right hand rotation (clockwise as viewed from the rear) is in fact reverse rotation, correct. |
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1StopJeff ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: May-10-2012 Location: Granite Bay, CA Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Eureka! So any recommendations on cam and intake to go along with the GT40p heads?
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1991 Nautique Excel
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Gary S ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Not to hijack but is it safe to say none of the Ford small block motors,righty or lefty's had roller cams? Do they have the spider mounts in the valley? Thought I remember something about this but you know my memory
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Air206 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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Ok, Don & Jeff:
Try not to envy my "K"..... Ha! |
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phatsat67 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6149 |
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I believe 94- blocks have bosses to be drilled and tapped for the spider mounts for the lifter dog bones (per Gun-driver).
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JoeinNY ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5697 |
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Personally I think it is safe to say that no H.O. Fords, gt40 or not were reverse rotation and that no sbf pcm engines ever had a roller cam, although later ones 95ish+ could have had the cast bosses and holes (although not drilled or tapped) for the spider gears. The lightning got them in 94, 94/95s with standard power could have been leftovers, but by the time you got to gt40s they were likely using the new blocks everywhere. With the 302s they made two seperate blocks for 5 years until they consolidated, with the 351ws they probably just changed all the mold tooling up front.
Anyway I figure the original poster needs to go to cam research for a cam, and pick up a weiand stealth or performer rpm manifold… and if they are feeling froggy some 1.7:1 roller rockers … anyone else with a suggestion or two ? |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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I agree with those upgrades, joe. I also agree that there were no marine ford windsors (at least no pcms) that ever got roller cams. I bet there are some HO RH engines though- doesn't Randy have a proboss and 1:1 in his 93 Sport?
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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gun-driver ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
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True statements Tim and Joe.
As far as the roller block, the block # that distinguishes it as roller capable is F4TE found above the starter mount. I have verified that my '95 has that block number. Below is a link to Ebay that has a good pic of one with the lifters in. You can mouse over the pic and zoom in on the valley. http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-351W-WINDSOR-ROLLER-CAM-BARE-BLOCK-ENGINE-F4TE-/221414538854?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item338d55be66#ht_1329wt_1057 |
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TX Foilhead ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: February-01-2009 Location: Kingsland TX Status: Offline Points: 2076 |
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Steve, why would I want one of those?
There are right handed Pro Boss motors, I have one. The marine motors have a bigger cam and more power than the Lightning so they probably figured no need to step up to a new roller cam on a motor that was coming to an end. |
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Air206 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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Don - You are RIGHT! You wouldn't...... ProBoss-like power of an upgraded 351w would be perfect. Good call!
![]() Rod was surprised at how differently the Excels behave with all that extra weight back there......He kept the 351 cream puff. |
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JoeinNY ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5697 |
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yep I think it was Randy's engine that proved me wrong last time I said that.
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1StopJeff ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: May-10-2012 Location: Granite Bay, CA Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Lots of interesting stuff. So somebody mentioned the performance (or lack there of) of the Excels and I would really like to fix that. So Gt40p heads with 1.7:1 roller rockers, go to Cam Research for a cam and a weiand stealth or performer rpm. Any other suggestions? I am basically at sea level and can barely pull an in shape, 200lb. single skier out of the water in its current state.
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1991 Nautique Excel
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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That is not right. What is your maximum RPM and MPH? Also, what prop do you have on there?
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1StopJeff ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: May-10-2012 Location: Granite Bay, CA Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Stock prop, like 43MPH @ 4000RPMs
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1991 Nautique Excel
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TX Foilhead ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: February-01-2009 Location: Kingsland TX Status: Offline Points: 2076 |
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If you don't have an Acme 328 then get that done first. I don't get out of the hole considerably quicker with the CHI upgrade, it did cut quite a few seconds from 12 to 40 and I have to be quick to not blow past my usual speed of 24 once it's on plane. The 328 got us to where we use 1/2 throttle instead of full throttle to launch, the CHI wasn't needed, but I was changing the heads so I figured I might as well try to see if I could push it past 50 just for grins.
If you haven't spent a lot of time behind a big wake boat the stock Excel seems sluggish because you think it should move like a DD and it won't. It does move quicker than most every wake boat. |
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phatsat67 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6149 |
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We have figured out with a skier in tow Mark's footer planes faster at 1/2 throttle or so VS smacking it WOT because it doesn't continue to push the nose up with extra power. Once the nose goes down they accelerate like rockets and you have to pull power back fast.
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1StopJeff ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: May-10-2012 Location: Granite Bay, CA Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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I had a '87 Chris Craft 21 foot Ski Jack. It was a big boat. It only have a 260hp 350 Chevy, granted it was in the middle with a jack shaft to a stern drive, but the boat was a deep V and weighed close to 2000lbs more than the Excel. I had a 5-blade stainless prop on that and it pulled out of the hole great. I figured I should at least get as good of out of the hole performance as the CC. I will definitely get the prop. So what is your top speed and rpms now with the prop and CHI?
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1991 Nautique Excel
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Randy_in_Ohio ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September-13-2006 Location: N. Canton, OH. Status: Offline Points: 1891 |
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Sorry I've been MIA... It's a long story that I won't go into on here. Anyway, I'm back from a long hiatus so I did a search on my name to see who's been talking about me and I came up with this thread! Yes, I do have a RH engine in my '93 Sport. And yes, I think Joe was proved wrong about that fact! I know it was the original engine that came in my boat. From my understanding, my boat must have been produced early and they had these engines laying around and just used it? |
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