1995 GT-40 Fuel Pump/FCC conversion |
Post Reply | Page <1 345 |
Author | |
MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3619 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I wish I could answer this but I don't know. You may be right.
Does it make any odd noise while running? Usually if they sound good they are good. Have you tried tapping on the pump to get it to jump start? How many hours on this unit, maybe it is just time for replacement. I hope it is not an electrical issue and I am steering the wrong way. Have you checked the amp draw cold when it works vrs the amp draw how when it does not work? |
|
gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
That's what I'm thinking, but the million dollar question is why does it run perfectly fine till you shut it off for more than 6-8 minutes???? Could it be that the fuel running through is keeping it cool enough to perform normal then when you shut it down it heat soaks and doesn't pump until you bleed fuel through from the LP to cool it enough for it to work again??? That's what I think is happening. |
|
MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3619 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Gun driver, if the electric pump is getting Hot the pump is shot. Since fuel runs through the pump at all times it is cooled constantly by the fuel the entire time the engine is running. The fuel temp is the same as tank temp. That should equal outside temps most times.
A pump getting hot usually means the bushings inside are worn or damaged from running dry and the friction is heating up the pump. The only solution is replacement. A dry start with a high pressure pump can damage the bushings in as little as 20 seconds run time. Another good reason for your 3 second fuel shut off wired in to all these systems. This is why we all should train everybody in our house to NEVER run out of gas in our cars (boats) or run them on fumes. Fuel Pumps are expensive. |
|
Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Stumbled across this Merc service bulletin. It seems to have a lot of interesting general points about vapor lock, aside from the Merc specific stuff.
Highlights include: -Change in under engine cover temperatures -Running blower vs no -Change in overall engine temp -Abrubt shut off after hard run without a cool down idling -Quality of fuel -Grade of fuel 87 vs 93 etc. -Number of restrictions, elbows etc. inf fuel supply -Quality and condition of fuel line A few of these things, like quality of fuel, seem to be things that could change over time. http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/99/99_07.pdf |
|
MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3619 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Sorry about any confusing terminology. Both pumps in your pictures are nothing special in the automotive electric pump world. My point is they can be replaced by a similar pump that fits and gives the same service for much less money than some are spending.
I would be glad to help ID the electric pumps so we could get replacement pump part numbers listed. If that is done already I should have read more first. The Fuel Injected engines we have talked about use 39 PSI + or -, The manufacurers regulate this with the pressure relief valve in the fuel rail. As long as the pump puts out more than 39 PSI it will work well. There used to be a listed max pressure and gallons per hour flow rates for these pumps in the old pump catalogs, most of these could Max at more than 70 psi to maintain the constant 39 for the system so there is a lot of wiggle room on pump replacement. It just has to fit, flow enough fuel and more than 39 PSI. |
|
tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
This is very fascinating for some reason.
|
|
gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Gary your right about that being a PCM thing. I have a call into Roy now waiting on a call back. |
|
Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Except it was most likely PCM's call not CC. Roy would know he was one of them going out and converting them. Sounded like the low pressure pump was an after thought, so they must have had trouble from the start with the whole system.
|
|
gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I bought the '95 in '08 and don't remember having any problems until about 2 years ago.
The 1 to 2 year run could have been something to do with suppliers, contracts, costs who knows, who knows why CC did a lot of things they did. |
|
TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21138 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Paul, how long did you own the boat before it started acting up? You're 100% confident that it hasn't always behaved this way? The issues on my merc appeared to be a design flaw, not a worn/degraded component. The very little I know about the Pcm set up leads me to believe it's a similar problem. Why only a 1-year run for the non-FCC set up?
|
|
Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Pete you and Mark are confusing the 95's pump with a '96 and newer pump. There is no FCC. Here is the pump-
96 and up replace this pump with the FCC and it's internal pump -this is the pump out of the FCC- |
|
tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Inside of that FCC is almost certainly the in-tank electric pump that was
Validated with the Ford pass car V8. I'm bettin'. If it is, it will be fun to beat the cost of the FCC PCM Version! |
|
gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I will open my old one up after I replace it and do some out of the boat testing with heat a source trying to replicate what's happening.
I'm thinking if I can make it act up with a heat source and if I take that heat away and it doesn't maybe it's just a matter of relocation instead of a $750 conversion. Then again maybe it's 20 years old and just needs to be replaced we shall see. Links from Trevor https://www.amazon.com/Delphi-Packard-Weatherpack-Terminal-16-14/dp/B004DVM7RG/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1469593543&sr=1-1&keywords=delphi+weatherpack http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delphi-Weather-Pack-2-Pin-Sealed-Connector-Kit-16-14-GA-/221582395995 |
|
Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Mark I think I know what your saying but our 95's don't have a FCC. The fuel pump looks to be specially made to PCM's spec's. If it's opened from its case it does not look like it could be closed back up. Like you though I would like to see one opened up.
|
|
MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3619 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
If the old FCC is still available could we tear it apart. I would be glad to try and identify the electric pump inside it so future failures could be easier and cheaper for the owners.
PCM did not manufacture a electric pump, I am sure it was made by Carter, Airtex or Bosch. They were the most common and are still available. I have one but really don't want to take a good one apart. Thanks. |
|
TrevorB
Newbie Joined: July-01-2016 Location: Wenatchee Wa Status: Offline Points: 14 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
You can get them here
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delphi-Weather-Pack-2-Pin-Sealed-Connector-Kit-16-14-GA-/221582395995 or here https://www.amazon.com/Delphi-Packard-Weatherpack-Terminal-16-14/dp/B004DVM7RG/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1469593543&sr=1-1&keywords=delphi+weatherpack |
|
1995 SNOB GT-40
|
|
gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Nice job
Thanks for the info I'm sure it will help many in the future Also where did you get the weather pac plug that mates to the new FCC plug? |
|
TrevorB
Newbie Joined: July-01-2016 Location: Wenatchee Wa Status: Offline Points: 14 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
|
1995 SNOB GT-40
|
|
TrevorB
Newbie Joined: July-01-2016 Location: Wenatchee Wa Status: Offline Points: 14 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I have taken some pictures, I will post them when I figure out how to do it I spent about 750 on the conversion.
Parts used RA080031 FCC R090176 FCC Bracket RA085064 Line rail outlet to FCC RA085063 Line FCC to fuel rail RA024175 Fitting top of fcc to fuel lines 2 req. R024089 3/8 Barb to 1/4 npt 90 deg 2 req Also need a 3/8 barb to 1/4npt fitting. I left the low pressure pump in the stock location(just installed a r080018 the week prior) I took out the original return all the way to the tank. Used about 12ft of3/8 fuel line to get from the tank to the FCC., The water hose to the manifold needed to be turned upward and lengthened for clearance on the FCC, it took about 18" of new 1"hose.I Cut off the original wire plug to the HPP and soldered on new wires and put on a mating weatherpack plug for the FCC |
|
1995 SNOB GT-40
|
|
gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Did a little search today for the parts needed off the top of my head, it looks like the conversion would run about $680 plus any other fittings one might need to swap over plus some type of mount.
|
|
tnplicky
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2006 Location: C'trl Illinois Status: Offline Points: 333 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
pictures of your conversion too, please
|
|
gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Total cost of the conversion???
And if you could post part #s for the hoses it may help others down the road Thanks |
|
TrevorB
Newbie Joined: July-01-2016 Location: Wenatchee Wa Status: Offline Points: 14 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Found a parts diagram and ordered the FCC and fuel lines from Nautique Parts Installed the FCC and new fuel lines about 2 weeks ago. My intermittent but getting more frequent hot start issues are now gone.
|
|
1995 SNOB GT-40
|
|
Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Why not call Pleasurecraft themselves and ask them what to do,maybe they have a retrofit for those engines. I personally think it's BS that their not supporting their older engines. I had a parts schematic showing what hoses, and mounting brackets to use on what engines but cannot find it. One major thing on the FCC's I believe is they do away with the return line to the gas tank. Just wait when things like key pads are NA-
|
|
TrevorB
Newbie Joined: July-01-2016 Location: Wenatchee Wa Status: Offline Points: 14 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Has any one converted a 1995 GT-40 to use the later model Fuel control cell and fuel pump?. My high pressure pump has failed and a replacement can not be located. I was looking at the RA080031 Fuel cell but unsure of how to plumb it in and what hoses would be needed. I looks like the FCC has two outlets for the fuel rails, where the current setup has one. Does anybody have a picture or diagram of the fuel lines?
Thanks Trevor |
|
1995 SNOB GT-40
|
|
Post Reply | Page <1 345 |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |