Best materials for replacing floor
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
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URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9510
Printed Date: May-21-2024 at 6:02am
Topic: Best materials for replacing floor
Posted By: Riley
Subject: Best materials for replacing floor
Date Posted: January-29-2008 at 11:12am
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I will be replacing the floor in my 67 Mustang. One outer stringer and the strapping needs replacement as well as the flooring.
I have a source for oak and am considering using that for the stringer, strapping and any supports. I plan to coat is with fiberglass resin. I plan to use AC or BC exterior grade plywood for the floor, coated with fiberglass resin after it is cut to fit. Is this the best method? A friend is telling me a wood sealer is better than resin, and treated plywood is the best way to go for the floor. |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-29-2008 at 11:32am
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Bruce, Is your source of oak white or red? Red will rot very quickly! The sealer your friend is recommending, is it hygroscopic? (water absorbtion) The only problem with the exterior ply are the voids in the center plys. Are you planning on entertaining any women with high heels on the boat?? If not, it won't be a problen! When you cut the ply to size, you can look at the edge for large voids.
From a post the other day: Posted: 14 January 2008 at 4:06pm | IP Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric, Do not use treated even if it is dry and although white oak is a excellent choice it is overkill. The treated will cause a chemical reaction and the white oak is too heavy. Some nice clear fir is the best. Do use epoxy resin for the job. Have you read any of the threads here about stringer replacement? __________________ 54 Atom 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Three Lakes, Wi. Keep it original, Pete ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-29-2008 at 12:37pm
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Pete, that's why I asked, I don't know if it's white or red. I had been thinking about using ash, but if fir is the best, I will use that.
My friend is a high end builder and has a warehouse full of stuff he'll give me, but I'd rather buy the right stuff than use the wrong stuff for free. Fortunately, (or unfortunately?), the women I hang around with don't wear high heels with a bathing suit. He wasn't recommending a specific sealer. He just thought it would be better than resin. I replaced a small section of flooring in a Malibu Skier about 12 years ago and used BC plywood with 3 coats of resin and it has held up well, way better than what Malibu used. I take it that marine plywood does not have voids. That stuff is hard to find around here. I'll have to do some searches, and as I get closer to starting, I will call you to go over my game plan. Right now I'm devising my plan. ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-29-2008 at 12:55pm
I think thats correct. Youve probably read this in your searches, but Ive been told that the voids are the only difference between marine and structural grade (the glue is the same). Structural is more than adequate for the floor. ------------- |
Riley wrote:Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-29-2008 at 1:03pm
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Bruce, It's always good to develope a game plan. I've seena few that haven't and the normal outcome are problems.
The normal exterier ply is fine but you just need to be carefull with the voids. You don't want one right where people are jumping into the boat. The glue used is the same for exterior and marine. Yes, marine has very tight standards for voids. Even inside knots are restricted in size and must be plugged. I always recommend epoxy resin for repairs so as long as you have it, I would us it for coating the ply. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-29-2008 at 2:53pm
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Riley its a bit pricey but you might want to consider http://www.coosacomposites.com/bluewater.html - Coosa board I used high density foam and laminated it with many layers of various fiberglass cloths when I did my stringers and floor for my mustang... it was very labor intensive and the foam was very expensive. The coosa product looks like it will be somewhat less expensive (although considerably more than wood) and no more time consuming than a wood job. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-29-2008 at 3:15pm
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Pete, please reiterate on the term Eric i know you wern't refering to me , i paid 90.00 a sheet for marine and feel its not worth the extra expense, i treat both sides and edges with resin and feel marine ply is not necessary. every boat i ever tear into just has the eye boards treated....the thompson transom were finishing had no epoxy at all, it is uncommon to treat both sides probably due to costs from the manufacturers, most boats that are reconstructed are 20 plus years old and the repairs made in this style with coating both sides will last basically past your life and mine. when tackled in this fashion you have a better sense of taking care of the boat because of the time and money spent repairing, the boat you are repairing was probably not taken care of correctly and spent most of its life with water in the bilgdge ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-29-2008 at 6:18pm
For Eric ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-29-2008 at 7:26pm
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Pete, it said eric do not use treated which i assume you were talking to an Eric that was asking if using treated wood would be OK, it was on the second from the top post, i was giving my opinion on plywood after that, i wasnt reffering to your opinion on the plys, remember i giggle as i type no harm intended. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-29-2008 at 7:49pm
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Ok, now I got it!! Eric, I copied and pasted that from the other thread (Jan. 14th) where the OTHER Eric is working on the 62 Classic! Confused yet?? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-29-2008 at 8:25pm
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Riley, you need to get a feel for these products when tackling this job, using sealer on the wood is a bad idea and i see alot of boats that come thru here with treated wood and it just doesnt work, besides the splinters will give you an infection. boats go thru an assembly line and there is not alot of attention paid to detail. it is an easy but dirty job to tackle if you have a fear of doing it. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-29-2008 at 8:52pm
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Eric, that's why I'm asking the experts. I had a plan, but I showed the boat to a friend and he started offering materials to me as well as his ideas.
I'm hoping the easier part is ahead me as ripping all that old foam out was a pretty manotinous job, although my 16 yo son did most of that. My original plan was to use exterior plywood and coat with resin on all sides prior to fastening to the floor. Pete says fir is the best, although around here you can only get HemFir, but I will start looking for real doug fir. The only stringer that needs replacing is the outer stringer which has 4 feet of rot at the rear. The rest is solid. I'm debating whether to replace the whole stringer, or just sister it. The other problem is I need to figure out how to support the strapping. The old strapping was supported by foam. I am going foamless, so I am going to have to support the area where the strapping meets the side of the hull. I am getting excited about working on it. I'd love to have sea worthy by the NE Reunion. ------------- |
Posted By: 2_Nautiques
Date Posted: January-29-2008 at 9:54pm
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For floors and interior bulkheads I have used birch cabinet grade plywood. Give it 2 coats of epoxy after all the cutting is done. Much nicer to work with that fir plywood. As for water proof glue in the plys it's a crap shoot. I have left pieces out in the weather for months on end with no de-lamination. A resin supplier for our plant also supplies resins for some of the plywood manufacturers and he said that the glue for the interior plywood is the same as the exterior nowadays. Can't say for sure, so the decision would be up to you, however I know that my boats are not going to be left out in the weather, or set with water in them as long as own them so I am not worried about the glue.
I have done several different repairs with the interior birch plywood without any failures. As far as white oak, epoxy will not stick to it very well and I would not advise using it. I would go with Pete's suggestion and use fir if you can find it, or I have used popular, coated twice, with good results. just my $.02 ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1160" rel="nofollow - 1988 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-30-2008 at 8:59am
Bruce, Here in the Midwest, we are seeing less Doug Fir too but the larger 2X10's and 2X12's are still Fir. These larger framing members are used for longer spans and the reason they are the stronger Fir. You may want to look for some Fir 2X12's. It may be possible to get both main stringers out of 1 - 11 1/4" width. If you are still finding only Hemlock, I would use it. Just find a nice vertical grain piece with small tight knots. (I know! These days it's tough finding nice lumber) I'm still against sistering in next to the old. I just feel that since you have gotten down to almost a bare hull that it's not that much more to do it the correct way. You can cut out the old ones and use them as patterns. I have also mentioned that although sections of the old stringers may look good now, the rot spores may already be present and just waiting for some water moisture. Rot is like cancer - cut it all out! Don't worry about the strapping at the junction of the floor to the hull sides. Use epoxy with some high strength filler to fill any small gaps at that edge and then a strip of fiberglass tape/epoxy to connect the floor to the hull sides. You can glass in some small wood blocks below the floor on the hull sides just to maintain the ply at the proper height. Here's a example of my Tique stringers before they were glassed in.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-30-2008 at 9:43am
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You do nice work. Those small supports on the sides of the hull is what I was thinking about. What did you do to that wood? Coat it with resin before installing the floor?
I plan on drilling some holes and checking the soundness of the stringers that appear solid. So far they do. What kind of tool do you use to cut through the fiberglass that encases the stringers in order to get them out? ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-30-2008 at 10:23am
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Bruce, yes, the wood is "primed" with resin first. When you go to glass them to the hull, you don't what any spots where their isn't enough resin because it all got sucked into the wood.
A 4" right angle grinder with a friction cut-off blade works for me to cut the glass at the bottom of the stringer. Because it's a right angle, you can get it it most places. In corners I have a Fien multimaster with the blade. Works better than a Sawsall. In a corner, the Sawsall can jump back and get you!!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-30-2008 at 10:27am
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you can use a skill saw set at the proper depth, or a sawzall, i itch just thinking about it, once you start glassing these boards in you'll be amazed how strong this stuff really is and then it makes it easier to guide you thru the rest of your project ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: January-30-2008 at 11:03am
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I used a 3" pnumatic cutoff wheel with a garden hose aiming a small stream on the wheel.
Smooth cut, No dust, no itch, with proper ppe. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-30-2008 at 11:46am
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i have a fetish to want to itch so i run dry, im also a moron at times too ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-30-2008 at 12:09pm
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The idea of running some sort of power tool like a sawsall in such a closed area is pretty thrilling. I was given a sawsall for Fathers Day last year and used it to remove an old metal stall shower from my mother in law's camp. The metal was about as thick as a 1950 Chevy fender. I couldn't believe I was able to remove it and get it to the dump without ending up in the ER. ------------- |