R U thinking of a new tundra
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URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6190
Printed Date: June-05-2024 at 10:37pm
Topic: R U thinking of a new tundra
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Subject: R U thinking of a new tundra
Date Posted: April-02-2007 at 8:17pm
Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-02-2007 at 8:21pm
| im with ya 110% on the american trucks..would never ever buy a foreign truck... |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: April-02-2007 at 10:15pm
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 8:32am
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Jim, it's an advertisement. It is not unusual for a company to exaggerate their product in an advertisement. Look at the new Chevy Edge commercial. Do you think that car can drive on the side of a building???
Honestly, when I saw the Tundra commercial I did not think the truck was pulling 10,000 pounds, the load didn't look big enough to be 10,000 lbs. I have owned a '98 Tacoma for 6 years. got it with 60,000 miles on it and now has 117,000. the only thing I have done to the truck besides regular maintenance is put in a starter. I tend to be hard on vehicles and this truck has taken everything I've thrown at it. I do my own maintenance and it is easy to work on, everything seems well thought out. I have been thinking of upgrading to a bigger truck. Will the Toyota Tundra be on my list of trucks to consider? You bet. Probably right at the top. And these truck are built right here in the USA with probably more parts from the USA than a Dodge truck. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 11:14am
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rough on a truck, try 96,000 in less than two years, Tires replaced @84k, oil, filters, wipers that's all
a lot of haulling loads over that time as well and still on the orginal brakes too. Cheap Chevy I guess gas and go where ever you want. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 2:10pm
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Randy,Randy,randy,
if people didnt buy them they wouldnt be here in the first place, watch how fast they'd pull out of US if they wernt being sold, it is a supply and demand world. them frickin nips aint no dummies and for sure are not looking out for the american worker. If your company made fireworks where would you want your business? right in the area where the raw materials are being produced and you would avoid shipping the products back oversea's. its a justification to make you believe its an american product because americans work on them and its not. if enough people bought the big 3, and those honda employees had a choice you know where they would be. the qaulity is back and with 100,000 mile warranties its a no brainer. at one point i thought the nips produced a better car and they did and they still might. but when i thougt that i always had a 1000.00 in my pocket. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Mark Mel
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 3:20pm
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I buy american brands for my trucks. However, the Tundra is made in Texas. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=972&sort=&pagenum=4&yrstart=1976&yrend=1980" rel="nofollow - 1978 Nautique FBook - www.facebook.com/charliedontsurfct |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 5:05pm
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 5:49pm
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Toyota is expected to outsell GM this year. I don't like the back door window on the new Tundra, it kills the look of the truck to me. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 7:55pm
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BFN, I watch that commercial and see the dis-claimer but I've told my wife that there are people who probably call to see if the car can really do that, Ive always bought new american cars and always will in the future, it gives me a better feeling inside. they snuck in the back door once and i feel in some strange way they are sneaking in again....but in a different way. thats a strong statement and apoligize if your offended
------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 8:09pm
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did you notice on the one ford commercial where they are loading it with crap to compare payload and one of the bags doesn't make it into the bed? is it over loaded with it? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: redneck7
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 8:21pm
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I could care less about brand, I buy based on a) what I can afford and b) track record
As for jobs for Americans...Ford just closed it's plant in my home town (Norfolk, VA) and we have more than a few family friends who are 45+ years old with no where to go but the shipyard where they'll be starting over at the bottom of the pay grade. Thanks to good ole American Blue Oval. Toyota employs Americans and opens plants because they are doing well; Ford ain't doing well, so they close plants... For the Tundra, if you buy a truck based on that ad, you're a complete idiot. If you buy a Chevy based on the ad where their 1 ton is pulling a train down the tracks loaded with Chevy's, you're an idiot. If you buy any vehicle based on the advertisement and not a test drive and some research, you're an idiot. If you're trying to "inform" me with your post, I feel I'm being talked down to, patronized and perhaps even insulted a bit. I'm not an idiot. My $.02 on which truck: My dad has an f-150, I have a Suburban, My mom has her second Isuzu, my sister has a Honda and my Granddad has nothing but GMs (new old and in between). I also owned a Toyota Tacoma for 2 years. Going off of our experiences with the cars listed, I'd buy a fullsize Honda truck if they'd make it over any other truck. Second on my list is Toyota. (This is 1/2 ton only). Just the way it is...Japanese vehicles are quality design, and usually quality built. Again, my opinion only, take it for what it's worth.  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1620&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985 - My 1983 Fish Nautique |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 8:24pm
| I liked the Ford commercial when the new style came out, with Jack Palance pulling the Grand Canyon together. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 9:25pm
randy- u taking shots at my dodge!..my decision on a truck is that the us trucks are hands down the best..never seen a honda or a toyota pulling any machinery have you?..i never see them hauling anything to be quit honest!..chevys fords and dodges...btw im givin ya a hard time randy! 
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Posted By: redneck7
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 9:34pm
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Notice my disclaimer that I was referring to 1/2 ton trucks only (Tundra, Dodge/Chevy 1500's, Ford F-150). I've never seen a 1/2 ton hauling anything of any consequence and looking happy about it, no matter what brand it is.
3/4 and full ton trucks are meant for hauling machinery, 1/2 tons haul mulch, lawn mowers and kids to baseball practice. Put a 19' ski boat behind it sure, put a 33ft Center Console with triple outboards and I don't care the brand, if it's a 1/2 ton, it ain't gonna be happy if it can move/stop the load at all. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1620&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985 - My 1983 Fish Nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 11:01pm
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pulled a trailer carrying an astro van loaded to the gills with tools and crap, enough sh*t to over load the vans springs and tires, 1400 miles to Sarasota, FLA with the Colorado's 5 cyl throught the TN hills and mountians doing 75 plus the whole way, do that in a toyota or honda, might be able to do 55 if your lucky.
Oh FYI they limit the speed to about 95 before the fuel is shut down to slow it down. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 11:08pm
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I really thought that the Edge was a Chevy. I guess ford isn't doing a good job getting the brand name across.
Sorry Ryan... I didn't mean to take a shot at your vehicle. I like Dodge, I think they have some great styling in there vehicles, but DaimlerChrysler does build a lot of their cars in Mexico with foreign parts. When I buy a vehicle I do a lot of research and look for the best quality, price, reliability, and re-sale value I can get within my budget. That being said I have owned a lot more Fords and GM's than Toyota or Honda and would definetly consider buying a truck from Ford, GM or Dodge. I just wouldn't decide not to buy a vehicle because it's not "American" anymore than I would decide not to buy a toaster because it's not made in the USA. When it comes down to it I will buy the best product I can afford and I don't care if it gives me a warm patriotic feeling. I feel patriotic in other ways such as taking part in the political process and blowing up fireworks (Made in China)... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: redneck7
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 11:41pm
I towed a Ford F-150 (that was broken down, imagine that) on tandem axle car trailer with my Tacoma. Doesn't mean the truck was comfortable doing it. Honda doesn't make a 1/2 ton truck, so that would explain why you don't see them pulling things and you must not look out the window much or maybe your area of the country is a bit different. I live in farm country and I see Tundra's pulling hay trailers and cotton modules a lot more than you would think, but I reckon they're really straining and usually blow up when they're just out of my sight... It makes 381hp, 401lb-ft of torque, and is rated at 10,800lbs towing capacity. Those numbers aren't arbitrary, they have to prove them...if you wouldn't haul with one or didn't feel like it could haul, that's your opinion, but jeez, cut the numbers in half and it's still hauling around my Suburban with 1,000lbs of crap in the back. That's nothing to laugh at. I still maintain that if you're going to beat your chest about how much a given truck can haul, at least do it about trucks that are comfortable doing it. Sure Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Dodge and whoever else can all claim a 10,000lb tow capacity in their 1/2 tons, but put 10,000lbs of grain or cattle behind any one of those trucks and it will not be a happy camper. Big loads are meant to be towed by big trucks. Toyota doesn't make one of those (yet) and neither Ford, Chevy nor Dodge makes the engines for their big boys, so it ain't worth arguing between the big three for those either. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1620&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985 - My 1983 Fish Nautique |
79nautique wrote:
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-04-2007 at 7:50am
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Look at it from this angle,I look at things long term, its not about what is a better truck, Toyota will probably surpass GM, and someday my children will be answering to well.....not an American.
As the middle east controls oil prices, if gas shot up to $10.00 a gallon, youd be right there in line fillin her up...pissed off Now...someday you have no choice other than to buy a car made in Japan because we are no longer capable of producing reasonabally priced cars, at this point we are completely relying on Japan to supply cars to the US. When you have the upper hand in any situation you will eventually take advantage of the situation and that word is called control. I refuse to buy anything but an American car because if i make it to 90 years old and my grand kid asks me, What happened? I can say it wasnt me ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: April-04-2007 at 8:38am
| I only buy American, but 3 out of 5 of the new trucks that I have owened, (Ford & Chevy), have been made in Canada. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-04-2007 at 9:02am
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you guys might think im a whack job, but it wasnt long ago that we dropped a couple of firecrackers there way, i really dont think they got over that yet..lol eric
------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: redneck7
Date Posted: April-04-2007 at 1:17pm
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I'm all for American classics which were built here by us, (and look positively bad ass). But to say you'll only buy an American vehicle today isn't quite as cut and dry.
As was already mentioned, Diamler Chrysler is now making many cars in Mexico with foreign parts. That's 0% American. We used to get a kick out my buddy's new "American" Dodge had a "Made in Mexico" sticker when parked next to one of my roommate's 1990 Toyota Camry which was "Made in Kentucky." Which one would you buy Eric? One that produces cars here and employs Americans but is run by folks overseas or one who doesn't do a thing to employ Americans and outsources everything in the name of the bottom dollar, but might have a guy named Smith or Jones at head of the table? I truthfully don't care what you all buy as long as no one stops me from buying what I chose to buy. I just like a healthy debate every now and again  and get tired of people assuming that since I drive a lifted Suburban and wear Wrangler jeans that I must big a dyed in the wool Chevy guy...not the case, I just got a good deal on a truck that has high miles and cheap parts availible for it. If it had been up to me, I would have gotten chassis cab 450 or 4500 and called it a day, but the money wasn't there. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1620&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985 - My 1983 Fish Nautique |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: April-04-2007 at 1:53pm
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The toyota add that get's to me is the Daddy working 4 weekends to finnish the play house and the two boy's playing go fish in the mini van. You know the one.BLATENT DISRESPECT! That would never happen in the house I grew up in. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-04-2007 at 3:36pm
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Its all global now, to me who owns the company that makes a product is about the least important factor in my decision making process. Where the plant is located is a factor, where it was designed and engineered also a factor, but who owns it well screw them.. old money do nothings own most of the big businesses in this country and I could care less whether thier great grand kids end up billionaires or only mearly millionaires without ever doing an honest days work in thier lives.
I work leading new product development projects for an HVAC manufacturer in upstate NY. We were recently bought by a Japanese company, they are investing and hiring heavily here in upstate NY where we design and produce products for all over the world. Our number one competitor is a "US" company who has moved 8000 jobs out of our area in the last 5 years to mexico and overseas, you can tell you which I would rather support (and work for). Thats not to say anything specific about Toyota, honda, ford, gm, etc but in my opinion where the office is located should be the last thing you worry about in todays day and age. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-04-2007 at 3:36pm
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Ever notice we have the same conversations over and over around here ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-04-2007 at 4:45pm
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hmmmmmmmm..firecrackers, i wont even put my thoughts on here about the "firecrackers and foreign(ers)". with out a doubt id be kicked off here and have many many enemies..lol...
joe0 being a union sheet metal worker whats the big new projects?..whats the companys name?..thank your local scab shop for the jobs lost in this industry. we can also thank ronald reagan(sp) for much of what is happening today(air traffic controllers) 
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Posted By: Poster112
Date Posted: April-04-2007 at 6:03pm
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Those darn rich people.
------------- I'd rather have a bottle-in-front-of-me than a frontal-lobotomy. http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3182&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1925&yrend=2009" rel="nofollow - 1985 Ski 1984 SW |
Posted By: todicus
Date Posted: April-04-2007 at 6:03pm
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I bought a 2007 Chevy Tahoe........ really liked the new styling and the 320 hp motor, 4-wheel drive and tow package.
At 4000 miles the truck electrical system shut down- stranding my wife; had to take work off to meet the flat bed driver to load it and take it to the dealer. Freaked out wife with 4 year old bending my ear about why I talked her into such a piece of crap. After 4 days, they said it was a faulty battery and replaced it. At 9000 miles, wife pulls out of day care and hears a big clunk, then truck will not move. It would go in reverse, so she backed up and called me. Had to take off work to go rescue her again, meet the flat bed driver to take it to the dealer. 3 weeks later, it has a brand new transmission, because ours was "faulty". My wife really wanted a Toyota Sequoia, but I convinced her that the Chevy was a better vehicle.......... 
I wish the extended warranty covered all the stress I get to endure from my wife reading me the riot act and loss of pay. ------------- Living outside the wake http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1525 - 95GT-40SNOB |
Posted By: redneck7
Date Posted: April-04-2007 at 6:25pm
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My dad broke down and bought AAA for my sister and mom for that very reason...didn't want to hear about "he" didn't tell her that if you leave your lights on the battery will die, etc ANYmore. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1620&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985 - My 1983 Fish Nautique |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-04-2007 at 7:14pm
| poster-explain yourself a little better |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-04-2007 at 8:32pm
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Ryan,
We are basically a (union) sheetmetal shop, and if I talk about the projects and name who I work for in the same internet searchable post this engineer will have some explaining to do. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Poster112
Date Posted: April-04-2007 at 10:13pm
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Nothing to do with your post, Ryan. I should have quoted what I was referring to. Better yet, I should have just not said anything. ------------- I'd rather have a bottle-in-front-of-me than a frontal-lobotomy. http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3182&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1925&yrend=2009" rel="nofollow - 1985 Ski 1984 SW |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 7:41am
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Joined: August 13 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1320 Posted: April 04 2007 at 12:51pm | IP Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Id by a Ford, to keep my buddy BFN working in turn he has money in his pocket to spend on the luxeries in life like his boat in which i have and it will put money in my pocket to go torwards the purchase of that new Powerstroke f-250, Its a cycle that what this country was built on, its delicate and if you take one part of the cycle out everything will stall ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 7:51am
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why is it that everyone wants a Harley and they are twice the price of a jap bike and I'll have to admit the jap bikes do run mantanance free?
Im using this as an example, eric ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: redneck7
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 1:54pm
Yamaha 600 owner here 
By your logic though, if you were in Georgetown, KY you'd buy a Toyota sedan to keep your local business up? No? They employ around 7,000 people there, surely some of them own boats, better line their pockets so they can afford to keep boating. Not an American/Foreign ownership argument there, it's a matter of location of manufacture. Like I said, lots of people around my way (Norfolk, VA) used to work for Ford, but Ford's pulling out/ closing up the second most efficient plant they have before July. No more F-150's out of Hampton Roads and no more jobs. In the words of one of the workers quoted in a local newspaper article "They asked us to be the best, and we all worked our >>>'s off and we were the best. For what?" ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1620&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985 - My 1983 Fish Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 4:08pm
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OK, we know how it was 25 years ago, what exactly do you see happening 25 years from now, you really have to think about this and with the current trend eventually the way it is going america will possibly be out of the automotive business....possibly, what are the thoughts. include middle class america ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 4:51pm
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I'm not sure how one would speculate that America might be out of the auto business, when Honda, Toyota, Suburu, Nissan
and others have many factories here. If the question is, "Will any auto manufacturer claim their headquarters to be in the Untied States?" I couldn't say. But, I also think it doesn't matter much. As long as American workers, are building cars, in America, then, IMO, america is in the auto business. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: redneck7
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 5:16pm
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What BKH just said is what I've been trying to get across: It ain't where the fat man at the top calls home, it's whether or not American workers are employed.
Warning, about to beat a dead horse: My dad's friend is now working hourly at the parts counter at the local NAPA, his house is for sale, his Ford truck is for sale (bought on the X-plan or A-plan or whatever), the whole nine. Went from living the good life to having 3 months notice that he was going to have to choose between a buyout or just work it till the end, but either option left him jobless come June 25. That's an "American" car company that's struggling to get by so they leave 3,000 people jobless. BUT, if it makes you feel better, if I were buying new, today, it'd be a dealer leftover 1 ton Ford that still has the 6.0L.  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1620&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985 - My 1983 Fish Nautique |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 5:42pm
IMHO the true American vehicles, Ford + GM, are the best, and those workers succeeded! For no other reason then a sense of patriotism and the hope it will help ensure a quality job here at home or help keep our economy strong, I will NEVER walk into a Foreign car dealer to buy a vehicle!! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 7:22pm
| amen |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 7:43pm
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 8:23pm
Well said BKH(as usual). Hasn't this all been covered before? It perks my interest again this time around because I just traded my beloved 2000 Tundra for a brand new Dodge Ram(yes,it has a Hemi).
Why,I don't know.Maybe because they were giving them away.I like the truck so far,but I find it hard to believe I will be able to run it 100,000 miles and get 60% of my money back like I did with the Toyota.FWIW I looked at new Chevys(way overpriced,IMHO)and the new Tundra.Couldn't get past the look of the new Toyota...haven't seen a truck that ugly since the 2000 Ford f150(no offense to any owners out there,just don't like em). Funny thing about it is that I don't feel any better about buying the Dodge instead of a foriegn vehicle,maybe because I already have 400 miles on it and I'm driving around now just waiting for something to break.I hope I'm wrong.Makes me wonder.... what is wrong with the U.S. auto industry that allows you to purchase a brand new vehicle for 11k off the sticker and still maximize your foriegn trade in value?You don't see those kinds of deals at the Honda/Toyota dealerships. Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 8:27pm
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heres my take 25 years form now.... Toyota Nissan, they are now supplying 95% of all vehicles to the US..... Chevy, Ford long gone(cant stay in business if you aint selling.
now they have the majority which means they are calling the shots, sure they employ many people you know friends, family, niehbors Now what possibly could you, me,the shareholders or even the government do if they woke up one day and thought hey lets double our profits or lets cut the workers saleries in half or lets only employ men, I think you get the point, right now you may be saying to yourself why would they wanna do that, its because they could. thats the point im getting at. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 8:58pm
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I hear you Eric,but that doesn't make them any different than any other manufacturer in any business.If the American auto makers could have us by the b@lls,they would.They can't because they have competition.I feel for people in the U.S. losing manufacturing jobs,but I firmly believe that Ford,GM,and Chrysler would be sticking it to us if there was no foriegn market.What would the big three be doing if they were the only three?
Somebody(in the auto industry) please explain to me why it costs more for a U.S. auto maker to build a vehicle and profit from it than it does a foriegn auto maker in the same country.Do they pay employees more?do they pay more for materials,taxes?I'm not being a smartass,I honestly don't know.Does it cost more for Gm/ford to build a vehicle than Toyota and why?Are the U.S.automakers overproducing,causing them to lower retail prices to clear inventory.Does that cost cutting get passed to the hard working employees while the upper management goes uneffected?Anyone that has some information without starting a huge argument,I am honestly interested to know. Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 11:16pm
Posted By: redneck7
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 11:18pm
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87BFN-
You are correct that in the context of this discussion, my reasoning is a bit lopsided...I'm advocating buying foreign because Ford isn't employing people, but Ford isn't employing people because they aren't selling...I'll concede that. BUT, my original bid in this discussion was just to buy based on the truck and not whether or not it was American. That was it. I just get annoyed with the mentality that it has to have a blue oval, a gold cross or a ram's head to be marketable to some people. Toyota makes a good truck. It's ludicrous to hear people say that Toyota's have no power or Toyota's don't last. If you don't want to buy them, that's one thing, but just because they aren't one of the big three doesn't make them crap. To each their own, and you may have followed Ford to Michigan, but you don't live on the ocean currently I'm guessing and you don't have 2 kids in high school. Up and moving a kid in the middle of high school is not really recommended by child psychologists, leaving your home town of 48 years, leaving your friends, etc, it's not that easy. That's what our friend was/is faced with. As I've said many times over, to each their own, as long you aren't preventing me from buying what I want, I don't really care what you buy, but don't be ignorant to the capabilities of a truck just because it has a Japanese badge on the front. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1620&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985 - My 1983 Fish Nautique |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: April-05-2007 at 11:53pm
87/James, The Taurus was not the best selling car because it was a good car, or even a popular car. Rather, in 1987, Ford paid $1.3B for an 80% stake in Hertz. It then flooded the rental car market with Taurus and other Ford products. It did so primarily so it could make a claim as the most popular car in the world, and so it could keep other vendors out of the market, including other American car makers, and in particular at that time, Chrysler. I think I could probably put forth a factual dispute to many of the points you've made, but that's not my intent. My perspective would be that you have a set of beliefs built around your own experiences, job, union membership etc. They are yours, and should be respected. No one is likely to change your opinion, and you aren't likely to change theirs. It's like trying to convince a person to change religions. Not likely to happen. My $.02. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-06-2007 at 7:32am
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thats whats great about this country, these topics make you think and see things from many different points of view and many opinions. maybe you believe one thing but you read another opinion and you think to yourself maybe im wrong or even maybe im right. but in the long run you belive strongly in what you will do ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: The Lake
Date Posted: April-06-2007 at 11:08am
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I think these are good discussions. Obviously how we live and work are huge parts of our lives, so we have personal feelings that come to the surface. I got to thinking, every car in our family fleet is a Ford, except for my oldest son's. He was able to find work at a Toyota dealership, so he drives a Tundra. Otherwise, next son a Ranger, youngest son a Mustang, my wife a Sable, and myself a 2000 F150--one of the ugly ones. Except for the oldest son we bought those vehichles primarily because they were the most economical choice for what we wanted.
It is my understanding that Ford and GM have to add about $2K per vehichle to take care of benefits for retirees--so that makes it tough to compete. I do think these discussions help inform myself and others. Just as I learn about boats from you guys I can learn about other facets of life. Chuck ------------- Walk on Water www.coldwater.me http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=775&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970 - 69 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: April-06-2007 at 11:51am
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All you guys are missing one hugh, industry changing thing that is going to happen. New emmisson's regulations. When that happens then it levels the playing field some. Pretty sure that is what GM is waiting on to happen, then the internal combustion engine is out the door.
And for all you guys that think the Japs are way out front on the alternate fuels/hybrids do you know where they bought the technology? GM and do you really think that they (GM) sold them the top of the line items no they didn't. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-06-2007 at 1:15pm
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if your thinking about buying a honda accord go look at the ford fusion, we have one here and its a great looking car, i wonder what the pricing is compared to the sushi delivery car,
I am thinking about buying one for the wife, does anyone have one? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: April-06-2007 at 1:44pm
| If you buy a Chevy truck in Maine, it is made in Canada. Isn't it really an import? My recent purchase of a US truck benefited the Canadian workers, not the US workers. This is kind of confusing. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-06-2007 at 4:39pm
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Canadians also drive alot of chevys, fords chryslers, I bet if you go over to the big J, you wont find any of the big three.
Next time you see a Japenese family around your town notice what they are driving, I bet you any amount of money they'll be in a Honda or a Toyota. where's the courtesy? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: April-06-2007 at 4:48pm
| I hear ya, I don't buy Japanese. I've never owned anything by a GM or a Ford. |
Posted By: Poster112
Date Posted: April-06-2007 at 5:15pm
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Courtesy? Who do the Japanese owe courtesy to? They are taking pride in what their country designs, just like some are telling us to do, so they buy those autos. In my garage and driveway there is a Mitsubishi, Honda, Toyota, and a Mercury. All have their good points and bad points. The Mercury pulls the boat. It is easier to work on the Mercury, though.
Here in Alabama, we have a Mercedes plant, Honda plant, and Hyundai plant. The labor at all of these plants is 95% American. What about their jobs? These are American jobs. ------------- I'd rather have a bottle-in-front-of-me than a frontal-lobotomy. http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3182&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1925&yrend=2009" rel="nofollow - 1985 Ski 1984 SW |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: April-06-2007 at 5:40pm
The mid seventies to eighties were a sad, sad chapter in American car building. The big three should hang their heads in shame because of the cars they had us driving back then (excluding the Grand National of course :)) ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: The Lake
Date Posted: April-06-2007 at 6:01pm
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M3Fan
Surely you're not speaking disparagingly of my 1976 Nova that ran down the highway like a sideways dog? Chuck ------------- Walk on Water www.coldwater.me http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=775&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970 - 69 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: April-06-2007 at 6:22pm
I had a '74 Dart that rode the same way. What a POS. |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: April-06-2007 at 8:34pm
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Thanks for some of the insight James.I can't help but think that someone should have been planning better for the retiree situation.If you know you have to pay your taxes,you save some of your profit to do that,instead of trying to coax more money out of someone or cut costs after the fact to make up the difference.I guess it's on a much bigger scale than that in the real world,but it seems a little like corporate greed again.
I think it's great that you defend your employer and the American Auto industry,the problem is definately alot bigger than just cars and trucks in this country.You are obviously a dedicated employee,hopefully Ford will reward you for that down the road. No offense on the 2000 F150 comment,Lake. Doesn't JBear also own one of those
Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: The Lake
Date Posted: April-07-2007 at 9:57am
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Mike
No offense taken; it's only purpose in life is pull a little old Nautique to the ramp and back. Chuck ------------- Walk on Water www.coldwater.me http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=775&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970 - 69 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: April-07-2007 at 2:08pm
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-07-2007 at 3:35pm
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Ive been to Mexico many many times, not the Mexico everybody is thinking about, I really dont mind Mexicans building cars, ive worked side by side with them and they worked as hard as i did the only difference was the pay and they went home to dirt floors, no TV's,
I cant say they are stealing our jobs. Mexico is in the labor supplying business not the automotive business, Labor and costs are a new ball game down there. this i believe is the only way we can compete for keeping the cars resonably priced, they are sub contractors. I think your bosses would prefer all the parts be built here and assembled here but as you mentioned all the costs ford is seeing. People are living longer which means Ford is still dishing out on alot of these guys that live to see thier golden years. 26% of all US cars sold go to employees benefits and retirements, The Japs are not seeing any of these costs..... yet, but they are still demanding the same money or more for the cars so maybe the American consumer is being gouged....nice angle i would say. I have a 1999 LHS with 179000 miles, I have a 1997 Dodge 1500 with 198000 miles my partner (brother) has a 1998 Dodge 1500 with 152000 miles, 1999 Chevy s-10 124000 miles and besides basic maintanance they have been good to me, I wont mention the 2 POS Volkswagons. I really dont hear people talking anymore about what a POS thier american car is anymore. I one time in the 80's i would of said our cars are built like sh*t and maybe the big three was trying to pass the junk on. but now i really believe they are trying to turn things around such as the mexican thing and Canadian thing, you will find our products that we manufacture in thier driveways and as i said in my earlier post look in a Asians drive, hopefully i was politically correct ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: redneck7
Date Posted: April-07-2007 at 3:46pm
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You asked who thinks foreign cars don't strand wives...I said in a former post that my dad broke down and bought AAA coverage for my mom and sister (mostly my mom). I also posted what they drove. My dad and I are the only two who have American cars (trucks more specifically). My mom and sister (the two with AAA cards in case of break-down) drive Japanese vehicles, Isuzu and Honda respectively.
Also, so far as the mid-70's and 80's American vehicles: 1979 F-250 and 1979 1 ton Bronco. Cannot be beat for styling, simplicity, ruggedness, etc. Of course my mom had a Pinto that literally blew it's engine apart when she was in high school in the mid to late-70's, car was only a year old...has the Polaroids of it and everything. Everybody makes Turds...Japanese or American. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1620&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985 - My 1983 Fish Nautique |
Posted By: rleinen79
Date Posted: April-07-2007 at 4:07pm
We have an 06 sushi deliver...I mean Accord, and my buddy bought an 06 Fusion at about the same time. The Fusion is definitely a nice car....way nicer than I would have thought after being in a couple of rented Tauruses (Tauri?) . I hate the tailights, but other than that, I think Ford did a nice job. My only hesitation would be the resale.
BTW.....we tow the SNOB with an 02 Explorer, so hopefully I won't be viewed as "anti-american". Rob ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7744" rel="nofollow - 2006 Ski 206 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1123" rel="nofollow - 97 SNOB |
Posted By: The Lake
Date Posted: April-07-2007 at 4:25pm
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The Fusion is definitely a nice car....way nicer than I would have thought after being in a couple of rented Tauruses (Tauri?)
------------- Walk on Water www.coldwater.me http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=775&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970 - 69 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: The Lake
Date Posted: April-07-2007 at 4:26pm
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I meant to add to the above, "very funny, nice work Rob" ------------- Walk on Water www.coldwater.me http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=775&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970 - 69 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-07-2007 at 8:04pm
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My mom bought a 06 accord and somebody hit it already, she lives with my younger brother and he is asian cars all the way, nissan pick up and his wife has hyundai. I would never let something as this subject get in the way of any type of relationships, wether it be my family or my friends, its just great to debate a subject like this.
I ask why they buy foriegn cars and the typical answer is that US cars a POS's, Yes the persona is out there and that's what needs to be changed, Our shop works on many cars and the American auto industry did a complete 180 degree turn around, You need to research before you buy as stated earlier and give it a nice fresh start as if you didnt know anything at all about cars, go to forums and research and consumers magazines, test drive the piss out of them and then make your un-biased decision, As for the the reason this topic is started.... A Toyoyta Tundru? I doubt you will see them anywhere in farm country ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-08-2007 at 10:17am
| just at the dodge dealership yesterday...not really in the market for a new truck but these guys got me thinking now..brand new dodge ram 1500 quad cab 4x4 wit hthe 5.7 l hemi, 20" chrome rms low pro tires all the bells and whistles..sticker was 36-37 grand...after finally setting down with these guys im convinced..finally price with zero down no trade in..24,995...thats a hell of deal on a badass truck..now i just gotta convince my wife..find me a tundra for that same dollar and the same truck...you wont, foreign trucks (i said trucks) are wayyyyyyyy overpriced..they cant touch DOMESTIC trucks and never will!!!!!!!! |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-08-2007 at 11:47am
Thats a lot of truck for not a lot of money. While the price is a great deal for you, I wouldnt say its a positive for Dodge. Foriegn cars generally dont need huge incentives to sell. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-08-2007 at 12:03pm
| im sure(could be wrong) there are much more dodges fords and chevys made than toyotas izuzus nissans..that may have something to do with it?..also right now hardly any big trucks or suvs are moving...costs dealership a lot of money to let these trucks sit on the lot..i would never buy a foreign truck let alone would not buy one without good incentitives..all the big three offer them at some point during the year..why would someone in their right mind pay 36k for a nissan or toyota when you can get a bigger better truck for much cheaper price?...menatlaity that foreign is better!? |
Posted By: redneck7
Date Posted: April-08-2007 at 8:19pm
Because some people view the Nissan or Toyota as "bigger and better" and don't mind paying extra for it. Remember, your love of Dodges is just an opinion, and others may have other opinions and might be willing to pay for those opinions. No right answer on the best truck or best price, just opinions. One fact that might influence people's opinion one way or the other is that foreign vehicles bring more at resale than their domestic counterparts. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1620&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985 - My 1983 Fish Nautique |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: April-08-2007 at 11:58pm
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Hey Mike, you remember correctly, I have a '96 F-150 with 160k on it. It is the third one I have had. Before the trucks I had 3 Broncos, all over 100k. No trouble on any of them. Lots of travling and boat towing. Just gotta remember to change the oil once-in-a-while.
I do enjoy these American vs Japanese, Harley vs Jap bike, Correct Craft vs all the rest discussions. We all just gotta remember to respect each others view point. And listen to BKH too, he's always got "nuthin' but the facts". john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: April-09-2007 at 12:14am
You lost me on that one John. Oh well . . . BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: April-09-2007 at 12:36am
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Brian; You knew the correct year of the start of the Taurus model, BFN didn't and he is a Ford employee. Also you always have level-headed comments whenever this well-worn topic comes up.
I know you ain't easy to lose. john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: April-09-2007 at 8:11am
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Ryan,
That is exactly how I wound up with a new truck.33k-10k rebate-n/c hemi upgrade=$21,800 including sales tax!Couldn't pass it up.Don't let em fool you though,you're really not getting a 35k truck for 25k,once you drive it off the lot it's only worth 20.At least they are taking the 10k hit and not you. Jbear, All in good fun my friend.I know sometimes these discussions get out of hand,but if everyone stays calm and respects each other,there is often a lot to be learned. Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: April-09-2007 at 8:30am
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Oh,wanted to say one more thing regarding fords.I have never been a ford fan,always grew up in Chevys.I would rather own a Dodge than a Ford(which admittedly,is very sad).
Last spring my wife went shopping for a "summer car".She came home with a brand new 06 Mustang Gt.I wanted to slap her(not really,but you know what I mean).I told her she had to park it across the street at her sisters house.I broke down and drove it one day and I was amazed.It has to be one of the nicest performance vehicles I have driven.It has all kinds of power,handles like it's on rails,has zero road noise(onheard of for a ragtop)and the fit and finish is top notch.Quite an impressive car.I still have not told her that I like it
Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-09-2007 at 8:45am
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See what happens when you close your eyes for a couple of years mike,
thats why i said go to your local dealer and take one for a ride, the qaulity is back and if it breaks its under a 1000000000000000 mile warranty ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-09-2007 at 9:21am
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Wouldn't it be so much easier if we had boobs on our chest and bought cars based on cupholders and color? ------------- |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: April-09-2007 at 11:50am
I'm pretty sure BFN is correct. 86 was the first year of the Taurus. Remember Jackie Stewart in those annoying commercials? My point was that there is a lot more going on to make a car the number one "seller" than the quality or popularity of the car. BTW, in recent years, both Honda and Toyota have exercised similar tactics with the Accord and Camrys. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: Nautique2001
Date Posted: April-10-2007 at 8:44am
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My '99 Mercury Mountaineer has 141,000K miles. Besides scheduled tune-ups and stuff, I only had to fix a ball joint, four cracked windshields and broken side view mirror from clowning around at Gillette Stadium.
Ken ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1052&sort=&pagenum=4&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: CCrider89
Date Posted: April-10-2007 at 10:27am
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My 2000 Montana 110k miles, has had new head gasket (had to fight with GM to be covered under warranty) and a rebuilt transmission. My view is that GM, Ford etc. are good if you keep them for a couple of years, but for long term ownership (10 yrs or so) better to go Jap. That is why they have better resale value, they last longer.
Just my 0.02$ ------------- CCrider89 Boating in the northern Adirondacks |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-10-2007 at 8:42pm
| maybe you shoulda bought a jap boat.. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-10-2007 at 8:43pm
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...just realized your from canada, i guess here in the good ole 'united states of america your vote doesnt count
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Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: April-11-2007 at 12:30am
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: April-11-2007 at 12:37am
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-11-2007 at 12:50am
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I too had good luck with mid nineties escorts, had three all were still running well into the mid 200000s before I drove what was left of them after the new york salt got them to the junk yard. The later 90's escorts however with the dual over head cam engines warp heads like it was thier job, you dont used replacements too easy because of that... you cant generalize this stuff ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-11-2007 at 7:42am
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hey BFn, are all the fusions all wheel drive?
just wondering ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-11-2007 at 9:00am
Thank you, enough of the Ford (domestic, blah blah whatever) drum beating already. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-11-2007 at 9:11am
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can you hear a tree falling in the forest? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: April-11-2007 at 10:37am
10 years ago I would agree with this statement. Not anymore. My nine year old Tacoma which has been driven every winter in NE Ohio does not have one spot of rust. Open your eyes and look around, vehicles domestic and foreign don't rust like they used to. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: April-11-2007 at 10:49am
Same thing with this comment. I would have agreed with you ten years ago. Not anymore. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: April-11-2007 at 11:09am
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Why is it that everyone is so conscientious on where their car is manufactured but no one seems to care about where anything else is manufactured? Where I live, North Canton, Ohio, home of Hoover appliances. Hoover was bought by Maytag a few years ago. most of the jobs were moved to Mexico as they ran the company into the ground producing crap. It was recently bought by a company out of Korea who announced that it will be closing the North Canton facility.
No one seems to care where their Appliances, TV's, computers, etc. are manufactured. Why not boycott the manufactures of Appliances,TV's and computers that are not American? At least the Honda and Toyota are creating Jobs in America. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: redneck7
Date Posted: April-11-2007 at 2:28pm
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I have to mention that a 1984 Toyota truck will rust away to nothing if you look at it wrong. My Tacoma on the other hand got driven through salt water (I move to the beach for 3.5 months in the summer) and not washed more often than not and I sold it with not one spot of rust. Truck was almost 10 years old at that point.
To the end of buying a $10K Ford vs a $13K Toyota, why spend $3k more all other things being equal? I might not...This fusion is a new beast, it could be comparable to a Camry...who knows. But if you're asking why I'd buy a 1996 Camry over a 1996 Taurus, I don't really think you can argue that Ford was putting out a top notch car at that point. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1620&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985 - My 1983 Fish Nautique |
Posted By: redneck7
Date Posted: April-11-2007 at 2:31pm
2 things: I'm not PC at all, and I could care less, but I think "jap" is offensive. I lived with a Japanese kid my freshman year of college and he was a pretty cool guy...just one of the things I gathered was that "jap" isn't really a good word for them anymore. 2nd: Apples to oranges with the boats to cars thing...no one's arguing that Correct Craft isn't a good boat. No one's saying that the marinized SBC and Fords in our boats aren't good enough either. Talking about cars and trucks. Apples to oranges. That having been said, I know the outboard market is pretty well contested by Japanese makers. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1620&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985 - My 1983 Fish Nautique |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: April-11-2007 at 4:42pm
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-11-2007 at 9:13pm
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neck-i disagree. thats all i will say due to my graphic pov ....
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Posted By: redneck7
Date Posted: April-13-2007 at 2:07am
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Agree to disagree...I can live with that...it ain't like it's a big deal, just a difference on opinions in cars and in reality, our $.02 really ain't gonna change the world. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1620&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985 - My 1983 Fish Nautique |
Posted By: nates78ski
Date Posted: April-13-2007 at 9:43am
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Well said Randy, everyones bitching about their buying american cars, but noone really seems to say much about other things they buy, is your microwave american? how about your washer/dryer? Water Faucets in your house? Power tools?... exactly, lets it rest, the imports are competing with our big 3 and doing pretty decent to say the least, to me it kinda sounds like the same argument over & over... 5 pages & every other or 3rd post reads the same baseline.
Nate ------------- Nathan http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1463&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - My '78 Ski Nautique <a href="http://photobucket.com/Nates78ski" rel="nofoll |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-29-2007 at 8:35am
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Lets refresh this topic since the Americans can no longer can claim the largest corporation in the world...next to the government.. GM was so large at one time the government was going to step in to break them up because they were so large fearing control
and yes it is an argument worth repeating, let them build all the microwaves and power tools they can. this country was built on the automotive industry and has been fueled by it and it is stalling and i dont think anyone realizes the long term effects. this country is building great cars again and its time to re-evaluate the situation. If i can convince one person to change thier mind i would be satisfied ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: todicus
Date Posted: April-30-2007 at 1:14pm
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Traded in our 2000 Montero Sport for a 2007 Chevy Tahoe !!
Go Warriors and Sharks !! ------------- Living outside the wake http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1525 - 95GT-40SNOB |