Antifreez test
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47170
Printed Date: May-04-2024 at 2:37am
Topic: Antifreez test
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Subject: Antifreez test
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 10:33am
Per Ken's suggestion ("goating") , I ran a test on -50 RV antifreeze overnight. We only got down to a -28 but it was still cold enough to get a good test. Here's the test set up: The results were very obvious. The full strength was slushy and showed no signs of any expansion. The 25/75 was fairly hard and did expand. The 50/50 was the worst and it was rock hard .and did expand. If ether the 25/75 or the 50/50 were confined, I'd have to say the expansion would do some damage in a hard vessel. My recommendation for winterizing a block remains the same. Always drain first and then add the antifreeze. As an additional step draining some of the antifreeze out of the low points to see if there's any water is still in the block is a good practice. If you have a refractometer, take a test to see what the freeze protection is. The bottom line is water mixed into the RV antifreeze is bad. Those of you that suck especially without draining are taking a BIG chance. The recommended procedure in the manual is to remove a hose and pour the anti in. Pretty simple!!! Every spring we seem to have someone post a problem with something on his engine or even the block that froze.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Replies:
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 10:46am
| Good work Pete. I've never understood what's so hard about just draining everything. |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 11:30am
What's even odder is how belligerently some people will defend not draining. From PN last fall...  30 liters....yeah, that's money well spent. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
phatsat67 wrote:Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 11:56am
| A fool and his money. |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 12:03pm
|
I concur. Drain I use pglycol in a bucket mouse trap over the winter. Even the modest of dilution would mess it up and make a hard slush shudder what pizpoor ratios develop on a water-filler block. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 12:05pm
Pete I think you meant to say "goading" not "goating" Here's a definition of goading "provoke or annoy (someone) so as to stimulate some action or reaction". I not sure what you do with the goats on a cold winter night up there, but that's between you and the them I am pretty annoying  But anyways....... on to the antifreeze discussion We had a mild 2 below zero night last night and I took a glass bottle filled with a 50/50 mix of the minus 50 F stuff capped it and set it outside during the afternoon and let it sit till this morning. I figured maybe the bottle would break but this morning the bottle was intact and the cap had deformed enough that the seal wasn't great and there was frozen pink stuff around the cap area on the outside. Kinda like a freeze,casting,core or whatever else you might refer to it as plug that was pushed out but the cap threads kept it from coming all the way off. I figure that burst protection at this temperature was marginal at best so all those southern boys that don't drain and just suck up 5 gallons might be protected down to a little below zero for burst protection...........maybe Also did the same with a bottle with a 75% antifreeze/25% water mix and like expected, it froze and had no effect on the bottle or the cap seal area. This would be kinda like getting most of the water out and pouring in some of the minus 50 stuff Like has been said on here for a long time and Pete said again, if you drain first, it's really hard to screw things up no matter what you do after that. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 12:21pm
Funny that PN came to mind after both of these posts!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 12:21pm
| Can't imagine the residual water in a block is any more than 8 oz, which is only about 3% if you add 2 gal on top of it. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 12:29pm
Sounds reasonable. I just picked a worse case number like 25% water. Which is probably why your way and my way of winterizing which are pretty much the same work for us with no issues
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 12:32pm
But Bruce, the 2 gal. isn't completely mixing with the 8oz.. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 12:36pm
| Not only is it miscible but PG is denser that water. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 2:16pm
|
So if you just drained & left the plugs out, spent the saved $5 on good beer, should the beer be chilled to 35F or 45F? ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 2:34pm
Those guys on PN have alot of money though Larry ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 3:12pm
Clearly. Plus I have other priorities. For example, It costs a lot for water, soap and electricity to wash my clothes. So everyday, after I wear them, I throw them out and buy new. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 6:45pm
apparently. Showed up in a thread about "your garages"   ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: Faceplant
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 8:48pm
|
Showed my sweetie the garage pictures . Have a feeling that it's " NOT going to happen ". I tried . LOL ------------- Feels like I am hanging 10 but in reality - probably hanging 6. |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: January-31-2019 at 9:32pm
|
We built a house like that for a customer literally on Lake Dora. First floor was all boat house and deck that had similar concept but instead of a boat cradle their 34’ Tritoon was parked directly on the composite decking and the entire section of deck lowered into the water with hidden hydraulics and the boat drove off. Then upon return he pulled the boat into the slip and a remote control raised the deck out of the water and toon rested on it. ------------- Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation 1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-01-2019 at 9:18am
and that would explain a popping freeze plug in a SBF many years ago before we started purging the water out. We winterized 2 boats this winter by draining and then pouring 1/2-3/4 gallon into them and letting that drain out and leaving them empty. The rest got filled with -100. after draining. I won't disclose how many gallons of -100 we bought last fall, but we would like to cut down on our consumption. We're not losing any sleep though, even if it goes down to -50. I got to think if you did your test with -100, none of the samples would have a problem. |
Posted By: Smithfamily
Date Posted: February-01-2019 at 9:40am
Which house is this Todd? ------------- Js |
Posted By: Smithfamily
Date Posted: February-01-2019 at 9:40am
|
Very interesting research Pete. ------------- Js |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-01-2019 at 10:26am
Bruce, You are one that all should follow.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-01-2019 at 10:46am
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Oh geez, don’t encourage him Pete.
|
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: February-01-2019 at 12:15pm
| I would purge twice, just to make sure you nap as well as you sleep at night. |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: February-01-2019 at 1:44pm
Damn KENO! You just made Diet Coke shoot out my nose. Note to self: NO DRINKING while reading KENO's posts on CCF. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-01-2019 at 8:58pm
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Glad to help keep your nose cleaned out Jonny
|
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: February-03-2019 at 4:29am
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So what is the reason for filling with antifreeze rather than draining and leaving empty. Trying to protect against rust? Heck they rust all Summer when filled with water from the lakes. Nice work Pete, might end up in a College somewhere. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-03-2019 at 10:01am
Many still do just a drain only. It was the ORIGINAL way to winterize! I've done plenty and still take care of a neighbors Chris/Hercules that just gets drained. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 67 ski nat
Date Posted: February-03-2019 at 11:20am
| Hi peter. At what temps do you recommend winterizing. Unfortunately I’m in California near coast gets into low 30’s , if it rarely got into 20’s I would put heat lamp or heater in boat for the week. Your thoughts?? Thanks |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: February-03-2019 at 12:10pm
Gloating vs goading vs goating. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-03-2019 at 12:49pm
Daryn, It sounds like you have a technique that works. I have no fears of you having any issues or worries. Even when the temps get into the 20's, it takes several days for the engine to see the temps. The trans cooler would be the first to be susceptible. The light bulb trick you use is taking care of you.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 67 ski nat
Date Posted: February-03-2019 at 10:56pm
| Good to know. I have hose bib that freezes once every ten years I’ll watch then thx |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-04-2019 at 6:16am
Daryn, You don't have frost proof hose bibs in California?  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Nautiquehunter
Date Posted: February-04-2019 at 9:47am
| we don't have frost proof bibs here in Georgia. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-04-2019 at 10:26am
SkiNat I'm glad that Pete can figure out from the info given that you'll be fine doing nothing except throwing a light bulb or electric heater in the boat if it's getting into the twenties. From a fairly recent post it seems like maybe you keep the boat in a 10 by 17 plastic enclosure. There are a number of people on CCF that are from your general area that could tell you what they do or don't do. I figure when you get that unexpected cold snap with a power outage and one of the variety of natural disasters you seem to have in California thrown in, then you can scramble around in the cold and dark with a flashlight trying to figure out how to drain the engine or you can do it ahead of time and not have to worry about the engine. Then you'll only have to worry about the outside faucet. Those corny sayings like "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure " "Better safe than Sorry" or the Boy Scout motto "Be Prepared" might be handy to think about. Here's an old thread from Planet Nautique with people who do nothing and others who drain. Some of the names are/were familiar names on this site. That heat lamp or heater may or may not be explosion proof in an enclosed area either. https://www.planetnautique.com/vb5/forum/nautique-topics/maintenance-technical-discussion/15493-winterize-in-nor-cal" rel="nofollow - old PN thread |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-04-2019 at 11:28am
|
Daryn, Of course the "what if's" as Ken mentions can always happen. I now fear you could freeze up you complete house if your power goes out. Then if you have a generator, it too can fail. You'll end up with a house that looks something like this:  Don't worry about getting a frostproof hose bib ether. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: February-04-2019 at 11:52am
| My power went out at home Wednesday at around 5am when it was in the minus twenties . Had to "winterize" the house. I did hold off on draining the hot water heater, luckily the power came back after only a few hours. |
Posted By: 67 ski nat
Date Posted: February-05-2019 at 11:14am
| That’s a trick hose bib never seen before. Thx |
Posted By: 67 ski nat
Date Posted: February-05-2019 at 11:25am
| I’m like my toys to be clean and well maintained. So probably will drain and change oil just to get old dirty stuff out. Should be ok with actual cracked block but that cooler does look venerable. Pretty easy got a little screw at bottom. Thx daryn |
Posted By: oldskiboat
Date Posted: February-22-2019 at 12:16pm
|
My Southwind has a heat exchanger in it so the block is filled with 50/50 automotive antifreeze all the time. This works for me in our area where it does not get that cold and when we were in NC it also worked fine. I do use RV palatable antifreeze in the raw water feed, Bar headers and exhaust system by running the boat and sucking in about 3 gallons of the stuff. ------------- Gary The Villages Fl. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1392&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975" rel="nofollow - 75Southwind 20 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-22-2019 at 12:22pm
Very poor advise for people that live were it gets real cold. Have fun and it's good you live in a warm area. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: oldskiboat
Date Posted: February-22-2019 at 12:32pm
|
Well I would hate to use the poisons automotive stuff and when using the RV type straight all I see coming out the exhaust is the antifreeze and in my case all that is being protected is the raw water intake, filter, raw water pump inside the heat exchanger, bar headers and exhaust.. What type of antifreeze would have to be used in colder areas of the 20 below temperatures? ------------- Gary The Villages Fl. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1392&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975" rel="nofollow - 75Southwind 20 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-22-2019 at 12:41pm
What does the refractometer tell you about the antifreeze you get out of the exhaust? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: oldskiboat
Date Posted: February-22-2019 at 12:47pm
|
Excellent point, I'm not sure, but like I said in my area if it gets to freezing it is cold. I'm about an hour north of Orlando, FL. So, in the case of a block with automotive antifreeze and a heat exchanger just be sure it is mixed to the correct formula for the area you live in , Correct? and then what would be done for the raw water end? ------------- Gary The Villages Fl. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1392&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975" rel="nofollow - 75Southwind 20 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-22-2019 at 12:50pm
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DRAIN first and then add the antifreeze is the only way to properly winterize anything. The bottom line is the suck up method without draining is poor advice because of the potential dilution. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: oldskiboat
Date Posted: February-22-2019 at 12:52pm
|
Okay, thank you for your help. ------------- Gary The Villages Fl. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1392&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975" rel="nofollow - 75Southwind 20 |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: February-22-2019 at 1:02pm
I don’t know why you bother winterizing. You can ski all year long! |
Posted By: oldskiboat
Date Posted: February-22-2019 at 1:05pm
|
Just in case, we do get below freezing at times. And the stuff is cheap ------------- Gary The Villages Fl. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1392&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975" rel="nofollow - 75Southwind 20 |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: February-22-2019 at 1:15pm
| Wouldn’t Quick drains on any raw water be a quicker fix and you could just do it after you ski? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-22-2019 at 1:23pm
But a tube in shell and exhaust manifolds aren't!! They both have drains so why not drain? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: February-22-2019 at 1:26pm
Even way up north in NC, that is all I do, as I do periodically go out for a winter ski. Takes about 3 minutes to: Open 2 drain cocks Pull hose off thermostat housing Pull hose off raw water pump Blow water out of transmission cooler via the two unhooked hoses Done ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: oldskiboat
Date Posted: February-22-2019 at 1:32pm
|
Remember I'm in Florida. The benefit of RV antifreeze is it prevents rust also. I have had the bar manifolds on it from about 96 and they are in great shape inside, just about no rust. I used the RV antifreeze in both NC and in Florida and have had no issues with the raw water components, but I also see nothing wrong with draining these. What ever is best for the boat. ------------- Gary The Villages Fl. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1392&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975" rel="nofollow - 75Southwind 20 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-22-2019 at 2:13pm
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Meanwhile here we are in the depths of winter and it’s 85 out. The down side is I’m going through impellers and gas. Think I’ll go winterize myself ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |