This isn't my first rodeo
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43377
Printed Date: April-27-2024 at 3:30pm
Topic: This isn't my first rodeo
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Subject: This isn't my first rodeo
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 8:13am
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I recently bought my first Correct Craft 1974 separator. It was the same 1974 Separator advertised here in 2014, I missed it then but I have it now. In my excitement to finally have this boat I failed to notice the missing raw water pump. It is not a closed system .. The water is sucked through the Outdrive by the circulation pump and is then distributed everywhere. Also, there is no thermostat. My plan of attack is to find a Sherwood pump..not the exact one for my boat but close, as well as a thermostat. Prior to getting these items I wanted to verify with experts on here whether...1st this is a "special" engine that only relies on the circulation pump to do everything..which I highly doubt. Second..what else do I need to do to compensate for this obvious lack of engineering expertise? I am certain the circulation pump has been over-taxed and needs replacement as well. Third, does anyone have a diagram showing the plumbing so I can sort this mess out in a timely fashion? I Already know the answer to the first question because this is not my 1st rodeo. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks! |
Replies:
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 8:36am
One thing you could do that would be helpful is give some decent information like what kind of outdrive it has and what the engine is  Or................ post some pictures of the engine and outdrive |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 8:53am
| It is a small block Ford.. 4 bbl carb. It's either a 302 or 351W. The outboard is an Alpha 1. Pictures will be sent momentarily. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 9:01am
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Well, the good news is that you can save some money on the water pump. An Alpha 1 Mercruiser has the raw water pump in the outdrive with a hose running up to the engine to supply cooling water. |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 9:10am
| Thank you for that information. The hose running from the outdrive to the circulation pump just looked odd to me. I'm assuming then that my impeller is also located in the outdrive? |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 9:15am
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Yes, impeller is in outdrive. Watch a how-to Utube & change it. Use an OEM replacement if at all possible. Also, you may want to change the lower unit oil while you are at it. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 9:17am
| https://www.dropbox.com/s/mmi7aysv34lb4da/667F9BF3-A0F6-4FD0-BFD5-E24AAFB8C148.JPG?dl=0 |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 9:23am
| Thank you..I had just changed the oil last week and now I'll have to do it again! Lol |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 9:25am
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If you want an easy way to distinguish a 302 from a 351 measure from an intake manifold mounting bolt on the left side to the right side. It's easy to check on the engine with a tape measure. If it's a 351W, the centerline distance will be about 9 1/4 inches If it's a 302, the centerline distance will be about 7 1/2 inches The picture is a 351w 
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 9:26am
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mmi7aysv34lb4da/667F9BF3-A0F6-4FD0-BFD5-E24AAFB8C148.JPG?dl=0%20" rel="nofollow - Direct link ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Aaron74separator wrote:Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 9:29am
| By the way, if you just changed the outdrive oil last week, you can do the impeller job without draining the oil. |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 9:39am
| Thank you for the engine information! As far as the impeller and doing the job without draining the oil, how is that possible when I have to separate the upper unit from the lower unit? |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 9:43am
| Does anyone know an easy way to determine whether I have a generation 1 or 2 Alphadrive? All of the identifying markings seem to be missing or wore off. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 9:46am
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All the oil is in the lower gear casing and the pump is above that. You'll see when you do the job Find a good set of instructions or a good video |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 9:50am
Because the oil is in the lower unit and the RWP is in the upper that doesn't have any oil.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 9:56am
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Back in 74 the Mercruiser 1 was original, the Alpha 1 Gen 2 didn't come about till the 90's so chances are it's a gen 1 You could google the differences Or,,,,,,,,,,,,,,click the link below for a bunch of info https://www.perfprotech.com/blog/articles/alpha1-alpha2-sterndrives" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 10:01am
http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/showthread.php?334565-Alpha-1-water-pump-kit-which-one" rel="nofollow - RWP identification BTW Aaron, this thread will get you out of the "first rodeo" as your title mentions! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 10:07am
| Woohoo...my 2nd rodeo! Lol |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 10:07am
| Thank you!! |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 10:43am
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Just to keep this from turning into your first "Goat Rodeo", if you're looking for parts, make sure you're talking to a dealer knowledgeable on Mercruisers since there were a lot of changes in names, terminology and parts over the years In 74 as mentioned earlier it was called a Mercruiser 1 not an Alpha 1 or Alpha anything.and Alpha stuff came along later. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 10:50am
While I have never owned or worked on an outdrive are they not just like an outboard's lower unit? You do not need to drain the oil on them to change the impeller. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 10:53am
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It's early I just saw Kens post........ ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 7:07pm
Thanks for this information! There was some confusion about whether it was an Alpha 1 or a Mercruiser 1. |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 7:27pm
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I want to thank everybody for helping a "Newbie" out and saving me from installing a Sherwood pump as a supplemental pump to feed the outdrive pump that I did not even know existed. I was literally so close to doing this it's ridiculous. I think with age comes wisdom. As a younger man I wouldn't have asked for any help I would instead jumped right in and done it.. So what was going to be a major and unnecessary repair job has now become a simple impeller change thanks to you guys! One more thing: I really would appreciate it if somebody could provide me with the correct plumbing diagram for my cooling system. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 7:51pm
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Aaron, Glad you found CCfan and glad we were able to help. Do some exploring of the site and I know you will find lots of information and also find there is a member knowledge base on CC's like no other. Now, what about those pictures? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 8:08pm
If you search the web for this, it is best t use serial # to get right manual. I worked on a friend's merc & it was an oddball, never did find correct diagram for it. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 8:42pm
Don't know how old you are but everybody not named Aaron that posted in this thread so far is in their 60's I've got a Mercruiser paper manual that has the Small Block Ford cooling system for an IO. I'll take a picture and post it later tonight. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-14-2018 at 10:13pm
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Here's a picture of the standard raw water cooling system from the manual There's about a mile and a half of cooling hoses between the thermostat housing and the manifolds.  There could be a slim chance that the goats are circling right now so I figure I should mention that some of Mercruisers more high performance outdrives back then had a Borg Warner transmission connecting the engine to the outdrive.(TR and TRS designations for these outdrive units) You most likely have just the engine and the outdrive .with the outdrive being a Mercruiser 1 If you have a transmission in between, then your outdrive won't have a water pump in it Somebody could have changed a lot of things in the last 44 years I could give you a picture of that too, but to avoid confusion I won't right now. |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-15-2018 at 4:03am
| I REALLY appreciate everything you've done for me but will you please send me that picture of the transmission. I promise it won't confuse me! By the way I am 53. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-15-2018 at 8:01am
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The link will take you to a picture or 3 or 4 of the transmission along with the adapter to the outdrive..which is bolted to the back of it. Like I said, I doubt you have that setup, but just in case here it is. Most Mercruisers have forward and reverse gears in the outdrive, but a TR or TRS from back then didn't and the transmission provided the forward and reverse function along with adding another hundred or so pounds of weight. I could send a picture of that cooling diagram too if you need it, but didn't want to so as to avoid confusion. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercruiser-Velvet-Drive-TRS-Borg-Warner/392092410274?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D53" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-15-2018 at 8:36am
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OK great we can now put that horse to pasture because I have no Velvet drive. I do have the numbers 55894 on the Mercury Marine out drive.. I am still poking for a serial # on the outdrive and the engine. ThAnk you Keno |
Posted By: Lakeview
Date Posted: August-15-2018 at 10:26am
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I have a '75 I/O,your '74 if it's the original outdrive was designated "MR" by mercruiser-Pictures as Pete and Keno said will help us relay info for your separator Look on your transom behind the lifting ring rod in the engine compartment to check for your hull tag-it will read SEP and a four digit number. The small brass pipe coming out of your outdrive by the gimbal housing is your raw water feed that supplies water from your outdrive pump to the engine. We need pictures-good luck ------------- Lakeview 1992 Barefoot Nautique 1967 Barracuda SS 1967 Chris Craft Cavalier |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-15-2018 at 11:52am
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Here's a link telling how to distinguish different Mercruiser outdrives complete with pictures of the obvious easy to recognize differences If you click on Pre Alpha for example you'll get pictures and info and if you click on Alpha you'll get pictures and info. http://www.mercstuff.com/drive_id.htm" rel="nofollow - link Also Pre Alpha, Mercruiser 1 and R are all different names for the same early drive
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Posted By: rebel skier
Date Posted: August-15-2018 at 3:31pm
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Also, you pump the gear lube into the out-drive from the bottom up, not let it fill from the top down. If you did not fill it this way, you might as well drain it again when you do the impeller. I don't know about gen 1, but my gen 2 impellers are really hardy. ------------- Hotty Toddy lets go skiing! |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-15-2018 at 8:03pm
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Thanks! I of course, filled from the bottom. We are from the same area. I'm on Tims Ford Lake in Franklin County. |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-15-2018 at 8:37pm
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A link for pictures... Soon I will master the local File Manager and pics upload as it is now personal! https://www.dropbox.com/sc/2lpganvjv3mp252/AADOVxrm3ZWLyf845zcoz1DEa" rel="nofollow - Aaron's 1974 Separator |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-15-2018 at 10:25pm
Aaron, Thanks for the pictures. Number one on your list before you take it out on the lake or even start it in the driveway is to get the automotive air cleaner off and get a USCG spark arrestor on it. You DO NOT what a big BOOM!!!! Did you get it that way? If so, I highly recommend telling the seller for me he is definitely a back yard hack!!  EDIT: You can get rid of that tube too! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 2:08am
| I got u in the Air cleaner but the tube stays! |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 2:16am
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OK folks, unless someone strongly objects I am willing to call this a "Pre-Alpha" although I'm not fond of a name that is based on a future occurance. In 1974 the name was not "pre-alpha" because the Alpha was not around yet How can the thing named Alpha or #1 have anything coming before it? It is the Alpha - right? No, I will name my outdrive the "Separated Drive unit". Confusion is now solved. Please amend all part catalogs and literature.
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 8:19am
The last sentence in the quote above from yesterday pretty much sums up the various names for the early outdrive. Once the Alpha showed up, it was easy to call the original Mercruiser 1 or R the Pre Alpha. You have an IO so the goats are always circling, just waiting to get ya' |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 8:36am
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Aaron It seems to me that Pete in his eagerness to pick on your boat and the previous owner, jumped right on that air filter without noticing a plastic fuel filter or asking what the carburetor hiding under that air cleaner looks like. I figure there's a pretty good chance it might not be a marine carburetor from what your pictures show.. A good picture or 2 or 3 of the carburetor without the filter would help. You could take a picture or 2 of the distributor also By the way, it's a decent looking boat with some non original stuff. I like it |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 10:17am
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Ken, I picked up on the fuel filter first thing but thought "what the heck the guy just bought the boat and has not done anything to update it yet" It will take time to update to CG approved items. Right now he is proud to show off his new toy as we all have been before. It is our job to help newcomers along and steer them in a safe direction. Not to pee on their parade. I (and others) have no idea who the PO was and won't condemn his ability or lack there of. I don't give a rats @ss if he has a tube or not. Better to have the kids out on the water having fun then to force them into a sport that fits others but may terrify them. I own three bass boat, should I be tossed to the wolves? I think your boat is cool and has a lot of potential Keep the posts and pics coming. If we can help then don't hesitate to ask. Good luck with your new project. Duane in Indy  ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 10:25am
| Great looking boat! |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 11:42am
| When we first started looking for an old Correct Craft in 2005, I was hoping to find a perfect Barracuda tucked away in someone's barn. After awhile, I realized they don't exist. Then at Lake George in 2008 Mr. Ralph told a story how he had to explain to a disappointed customer that had expected a perfect Correct Craft that no Correct Craft is perfect. Anyone that has met Mr. Ralph knows how that story ended. You've got a really nice boat that needs some work, just like every other one out there. |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 2:50pm
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Well here is something I missed when I bought the boat; The boat has about 10-15 filled sandbags in the very front. It also has had the gas tank transplanted to a new front end resting spot. I understand why someone who s new to a boat like this would be afraid of the hole-shot and want that front end down as quickly as possible it is that not what trim is for? I wa t to ditch the sandbags and also return the fuel tank to its birth home What say you??? |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 3:06pm
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Some pics of my lower disassembly https://www.dropbox.com/sc/d92wgn9a7i5bxrm/AAChsBvcpvSGKYJY0whyhXdZa" rel="nofollow - Lower Disassembly |
Posted By: Aaron74separator
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 3:10pm
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I found everything in pretty good order. The only thing that stands out to me is that every single nut and bolt was barely even hand tight. I mean it was loose - very loose. Not one lock washer was in use either. |
Posted By: rebel skier
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 3:56pm
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I will look for you on Tims Ford. What side of the lake do you generally boat on? I keep my other boat, a red and white Stingray, at Sam's Storage and usually launch at the state park. I am waiting for confirmation, but might be out this Saturday with my Ski Nautique to help tow some kids from a Nashville housing project ministry. I bring out the boom and pull them on skis. My next extended amount of time out there will be Labor Day. I live in Franklin, so after school starts I tend to boat more at the far end of Percy Priest where we keep the ski club's slalom course. I do hope to get out a few more weekend day, though. Tims Ford is my favorite lake. ------------- Hotty Toddy lets go skiing! |
Posted By: rebel skier
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 4:01pm
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In terms of the sand, I think you need to get it out and run it. Not sure the pitch of that prop, but it may be a dog out of the hole and set up for high speed. Someone added a foil to help it get up on plane. The sand may have been another attempt at this. Maybe they did this to be able to hold plane and wake or kneeboard. Once you run it, a better solution may be a different foil or some smart tabs, or Bennett SLT-10s. Water test will help answer some questions. ------------- Hotty Toddy lets go skiing! |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 4:17pm
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I don't know much about outdrives,I've never even been in one. But I think that early ones have power tilt but not power trim. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: connorssons
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 4:55pm
| your outdrive is a mercruiser 888 and usually a 302 ford! that's how my separator was originally set up. if you don't have the original gas tank I can supply you with correct dimensions, also get rid of the fishing boat seats. lol |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-16-2018 at 8:11pm
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Aaron, I agree with the idea of getting it out on the lake (with a spark arrestor on it first! ) without all the extras and see how it performs. Yes, I agree the extra weight in the bow may have been an attempt to keep the bow down at wakeboard speeds. One thing I do know is CC in later years of the Separator was adding fixed trim tabs on the bottom of the transom. With all the weight of the engine in a pretty short hull, I'm sure this was an attempt to get it to plane out faster. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |