230 HP OMC Carburetor
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41336
Printed Date: April-27-2024 at 12:33pm
Topic: 230 HP OMC Carburetor
Posted By: adaily
Subject: 230 HP OMC Carburetor
Date Posted: June-23-2017 at 1:39pm
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Hello, I purchased a 1978 Mustang last fall that's in very nice condition. The seller admitted to not being mechanically inclined. My question relates to the carburetor. The engine is the 305ci OMC 230 HP. Presently there is a Holly 7445-4 650 CFM installed. There's also a new Mallory distributor. One other observation is that the Morse throttle - clutch single lever control looks to be upside down. The neutral pull lever is in front of the throttle advance not to the rear. This is an odd set up as you have to pull the lever and then move the throttle in reverse for a neutral fast idle. Obviously not an issue but may contribute to the poor engine behavior. Symptoms::: The engine starts easily when cold but requires throttle advance when warm. Engine operates at the proper temperature zone, 160. Planes very easily around 1,700 RPM and does 20 MPH at around 2,200 RPM I haven't verified the RPM with my timing light just yet. When the engine reaches around 3,200 RPM it pretty much is at it's limit. advancing the throttle doesn't increase the RPM. If running the boat at 3,000 or so RPM and then cut back the throttle quickly the engine will stall, sometimes with a cough, or semi backfire, It will start right up but only if the throttle is advanced. So is the carburetor that's installed the proper one from the factory? Does anyone think that this engine is over carbureted? (Too much fuel at higher throttle advance not allowing the engine to efficiently burn all the fuel?) Timing, plugs, spark, are all good, even compression, idles perfectly, new fuel filter. I do think the Morse control may be the culprit, I have to have someone go with me who will hand operate the carburetor throttle without the cable attached to see if that makes a difference. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you, Tony D ------------- A Daily |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-23-2017 at 5:09pm
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Tony, Welcome to CCfan. We'd love to see some pictures. Regarding the MV1, there really isn't any right side up. They can be mounted in any position. With the neutral safety pin pulled it's common for the handle to only go into the reverse position. Regarding the 3200 max RPM, do check it with the shop tach but also, what prop (dia. and pitch) are you running. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-23-2017 at 5:22pm
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I did wonder if it was over propped. I have to check, Not sure how to post pictures but I will.. Put a new fuel pump on as I wasn't thrilled running a 40 year old pump. The previous owner installed a different set up for the water pump that works quite well.. It looks like the 230 HP OMC wasn't a popular option. I appreciate the advise on the Morse control, I've had them in many boats but never with the neutral pull forward of the throttle. Outboard engine controls are usually limited in reverse throttle movement. I wasn't sure about the inboard. I had a 1961 Chris Craft Super Sport 21 with a 283 and Morse single lever control. but I couldn't recall if the reverse was limited. Visually I checked the carburetor butterfly and it was full open at WOT. Sounds like I may be down to the prop unless someone can verify if the 650 CFM is too large. Thanks for the help. Tony D ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: June-23-2017 at 6:07pm
Not a big motor head, so not going to be a big help. I am just commenting because I have the same engine. Yes, the chevy/OMC does seem to be a bit rare, on my 76 I believe it was a $200 option. The chevies seem to have just a little more higher end than the stock 302s. The standard Holley 4160 that most 351s have is a 600 CFM I believe. I have on my 305,(what is believe is a replaced by PO) an Edelbrock that is a 600 CFM. There are carb to CID calculators on the interwebs, here is a clip of an example. My 305 runs about 5000. You can see from the clip what the CFM calcs are. I think my boat runs pretty well, I dont know the "side effects" of running a carb with a greater CFM capacity than the engine requires. I am not sure what engine volumetric efficiency is, but since 83 was the default, I went with that. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-23-2017 at 6:51pm
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Tony, Did you happen to check if the secondary's are opening? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: swilliams
Date Posted: June-24-2017 at 1:56am
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My 260 Omc is a 350 ci. Mine has the original Quadrajet 4MV carb. Carb number is 7040284. I'll see if I can find your carb number through a search. ------------- 1976 Martinique,350 Omc. 1975 Glastron/Carlson CV16,115 Merc. |
Posted By: swilliams
Date Posted: June-24-2017 at 2:31am
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Found number 7028280. This would be a Rochester number stamped on the port side of the carb. "75 Tique" would have the same carb. I bet he could check it for you. ------------- 1976 Martinique,350 Omc. 1975 Glastron/Carlson CV16,115 Merc. |
Posted By: swilliams
Date Posted: June-24-2017 at 8:43am
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Your model will also allow me to look it up more accurately( ie 990324M). ------------- 1976 Martinique,350 Omc. 1975 Glastron/Carlson CV16,115 Merc. |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-24-2017 at 1:04pm
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Hi and thanks for all the help. The secondaries are vacuum controlled so I'd have to have the engine cover opened the flame arrester off and someone running the boat. As far as moving them by hand all the linkage works easily. So the quick answer is I'm not sure other than it sounds like they are opening. ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-24-2017 at 1:22pm
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As far as the carb number goes, in my particular case my boat is equipped with a Holly 7445-4. 650 CFM 4bbl. The 350ci - 260 hp is a newer engine and it depends on the Company who marineized the engine. Mine being an OMC. I guess the question is does anyone have the mid 70's OMC 305-230 HP. I have a feeling the original may have been a Rochester. If so I'll have to re-jet or find the proper carburetor. ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: swilliams
Date Posted: June-24-2017 at 3:38pm
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In 1978 CC would have put that in their boats. Omc would be the marinizer. Post some pics of the engine and model number. ------------- 1976 Martinique,350 Omc. 1975 Glastron/Carlson CV16,115 Merc. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-24-2017 at 4:53pm
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Here's what I get from this thread. Tony has a 78 OMC with a 650 Holley. It's almost a sure thing that it's not the original carb. Steve has a 76 OMC with the original carb, his serial numbers on the carb verify that. Steve's trying to help you out by telling you what most likely came on your engine originally and that would be a Quadrajet with the serial number 7028280. I agree with Steve on that information. It would have originally had a Quadrajet. You seem to want to blame the lack of revs on the carburetor. On either the Holley or a Quadrajet you have vacuum operated secondaries (the q-jet is mechanical secondary butterfly with a vacuum operated air valve) that although they function differently from each other will only open far enough to let the amount of air through that the engine demands. So your Holley secondaries will partially open at full throttle but your engine can,t pull enough air through it for the secondaries to ever want to fully open. The carb can flow 650 cfm but it won't because the engine can't use that much air. Too big a carburetor isn't gonna have the effect you're seeing but a badly adjusted, dirty carb needing a rebuild might. You mention timing being right . What is the timing set at while idling and what's the timing at 3000 rpm? It should be around 6 to 10 at idle and at 3000 at least 30 preferably 34-36 What size prop do you have? How fast are you going at 3000 rpm? Do you know the tach is accurate? Will the throttle lever open the primaries fully? You can check this with the engine off. If it does then you don't have Morse control problems Lots of questions, but the answers will help you figure out your issue or issues |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-24-2017 at 5:10pm
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Here's a http://flyingfishcarburetors.com/Marine-Boat-merCruiser-Rochester-OMC.htm#" rel="nofollow - list of OMC engines and carbs Click on the OMC section I don't think you'll find an OMC Small block Chevy v-8 with a Holley as original equipment but you'll find the number Steve gave you 7028280 listed for your engine size |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-24-2017 at 10:51pm
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990322A is the engine model. The rest of the questions will require some investigation. I do know the primary butterfly opens fully when the throttle is advanced to WOT. I Have to pull the prop in order to identify its size and pitch. As far as how fast at 3,000 I'll measure that with my phone. My timing light has a Tach so I'll check the RMP accuracy. I can also see how the timing lines up with your calculations. Thank you for all this helpful information. I honestly don't know how to post pictures on the forum. ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-24-2017 at 10:55pm
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Your list number doesn't show up in any Holley charts that I have but since you know it's a 650, you must have some info on it. It may be a 4165/4175 spread bore Quadrajet replacement carburetor and if that's the case,it's quite a bit different than the 4160 type Holley and it also may or may not be a marine carburetor. Pictures would be a big help |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-24-2017 at 11:28pm
| Nothing to add other than a hearty recommendation to follow KENO's advice... he shall lead you home. |
Posted By: swilliams
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 1:26am
From your first post,you mention rpm's up to 3200 and that's it. I think I would also check your advance springs in the distributor. Could be an issue there. We love springs, don't we Ken?  I believe my service manual covers your model number. I'll let you know.------------- 1976 Martinique,350 Omc. 1975 Glastron/Carlson CV16,115 Merc. |
Posted By: swilliams
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 1:49am
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------------- 1976 Martinique,350 Omc. 1975 Glastron/Carlson CV16,115 Merc. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 6:26am
Anthony, Use the "post reply" rather than the quick you find at the bottom of each thread. Click on the icon of the tree with the up arrow. A browse box will come up allowing you to select anything off your computer. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
adaily wrote:Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 9:10am
Yes we do , actually just distributors in general 
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 9:14am
Make that WE shall lead you home, we being CCF. |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 10:39am
    A few pictures of the ailing Carburetor. Tony ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: swilliams
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 11:33am
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Thanks for the pics Tony. Issues with that carb might be far reaching. The correct carb might be in your best interest. Also, is that a prestolite or Mallory distributor? You might want to inspect the guts on that also. a service and parts manual is great to have. On the service manual, look for an original OMC SDL-1092. Parts manual 981296 will cover 990322M but not 990322A. You might have to research a little more for the correct one but I bet their close enough. Steve ------------- 1976 Martinique,350 Omc. 1975 Glastron/Carlson CV16,115 Merc. |
Posted By: swilliams
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 11:44am
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Parts manual 980922 is the one you want. Found some on ebay. The Ken Cook manuals seem to be a bit pricy but others are available. ------------- 1976 Martinique,350 Omc. 1975 Glastron/Carlson CV16,115 Merc. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 11:44am
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Interesting,that last picture is not of the carb list number. It is located on the air horn where the choke plate is. That's is why Ken could not find a listing. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 11:50am
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The distributor is a new Mallory. Came with the boat. It's still set up with points although I do have an electronic module in the box. ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 12:03pm
Why are you going to the EI conversion? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 12:05pm
 This shows the choke side of the carburetor. The number is 603A ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 12:09pm
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The module came with the boat, I haven't decided to install it. That's the least of my issues right now. I do see the recommended carburetors for sale. That seems to be something I should consider. I'm not comfortable with having the wrong size and make on this engine. Most of my experience has been with outboards. Tony ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 12:31pm
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e Bay item, 371316091891 Should this be the correct carb? Rather than fooling around would anyone suggest just installing it.? Tony ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 1:01pm
Lets figure out what you have first Here is where the numbers are that we need. Interesting thing about your carb is that it looks so new. Last owner must have been having issues and finally gave up would be my guess. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 1:29pm
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If you click on the link it'll take you to the carburetor I THINK you have now. Take the flame arrestor off and take a picture of the air horn and the j tubes. If you have the j tubes it's a marine Holley 4175 and really quite a decent carburetor that Holley made as a Quadrajet replacement. Like Gary said don't spend any money yet, see what you have first Maybe the previous owner can tell you something about how it ran https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-0-80552/overview/" rel="nofollow - 4175 pread bore marine carb |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 1:34pm
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Good job figuring out posting the pictures by the way. Next we'll have you posting links, it's easier than pictures We'll let Pete explain that to ya |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 5:34pm
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/uploads/17156/IMG_2099.JPG Top of Carburetor. ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 7:02pm
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If you take a picture of the air horn from the same angle as Gary's picture you should get the list number. Sure looks to be a 4175 model like I mentioned before (and put the summit link up for) and it has vacuum operated secondaries that will only open as far as the engine load requires unless somebody really messed it up. A rebuild kit based on the list number is probably around 40 bucks or so and would be worth a try.. If you were going to buy a Rochester I'd use the info that Steve posted Right now I'm not thinking your problem is the carburetor since it works good at low speeds and up to your max of 3200 rpm unless the secondaries just plain don't open. They'll only open under load on the water so you'd need the engine box up or off to be able to watch them or move the linkage manually like you previously mentioned. Give answers to the previous questions when you get them and it'll be helpful |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 7:17pm
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Will do. 35mph winds today so not very good conditions for a sea trial. I'll see if I can get a better photo. Nice to have all this expert help. ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 9:57pm
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the carb you have is a replacement spreadbore. i would either spend the money for a marine edelbrock 600 , holley or one of the copycat style 600cfm or buy a rebuilt marine rochester quadra jet.. did anyone determine whether or not there are all marine parts on that boat? starter ,distributor, alternator carb? ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 10:08pm
The carb is indeed a replacement spread bore Holley but you should have added the word Marine If you go back a number of posts you can find my link to one on the Summit website and you can look at his picture again and see the j tubes as a hint that it's marine (and expensive too) When he gets the list number that will be helpful |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-25-2017 at 11:49pm
      More pictures. Carb numbers,, Prop. hard to read but maybe enough to make a determination. Distributor. Tony D ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 12:05am
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80552 is the list number, it's a marine spread bore 650 cfm carb just like the one in the Summit link that was posted earlier today The prop is a 12 inch diameter by 14 inch pitch Federal. Probably original. Not the problem Somebody named TRBenj can tell you more on that The distributor probably isn't a marine Mallory but a dual point automotive one. Don't see any brass vent screens in the body (a marine one has 2 vent screens) and the red caps have a small vent hole behind one of the clips. The marine ones from Mallory are blue and don't have the vent hole. Dual point distributor has the condenser on the outside because with 2 sets of points under the cap there's no room for the condenser. it'll work if the weights and springs are operating properly but..................Under the right conditions it might blow your motor box up into the sky and send you flying too
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Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 12:17am
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Thank you for the clarification. Guessing aside from a possible adjustment the Carburetor is serviceable. If I install the electronic module (no sparking points) can I expect not to blown up? The boat came with the Mallory module in the box. Thank you for the help. TONY D ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 12:32am
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I think it's serviceable, some people may not Even with the electronic module you still have spark as the rotor passes each of the eight terminals so the boom possibility is still there. Look to see if there are any vent holes about 1/2 inch diameter with vent screens in them. They're usually in the sides of the housing, sometimes in the bottom. If the original tag is still on the distributor it should have a number on it Just as an example the number might be something like 2548201 just as an example or if it's older it might say something like YL-624 AV, again just an example. In your picture I think I see it screwed to the cap clip mount 180 degrees from the clip by the condenser. You van just barely see the edge of it I think. Post that number and we should be able to tell you if it's marine or not |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 7:13am
Tony, The EI isn't going to fix the stumble nor will it provide any performance gains. Chances are high that the PO didn't want to or didn't know how to set dwell. Some have found that the EI's aren't reliable and others have had good luck with them. Stick with the points for now until you get the stumble fixed. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: swilliams
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 8:13am
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Tony, your original distributor would have been a Mallory YL 520 CV and probably had the flat cap. Ken and others will get you running well! ------------- 1976 Martinique,350 Omc. 1975 Glastron/Carlson CV16,115 Merc. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 8:35am
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Tony, Regarding the prop, the 12x14 is not "over propping" the engine and not the problem. Get the boat out on the water and check to see if the carb secondary's are opening. I still feel that could be the problem. What input if any have you gotten from the PO regarding the engine? Was he the one who installed the non original carb and distributor? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 9:29am
Me and Pete agreeing again And Pete, you're supposed to let Tim tell him about the prop and then agree but I figure we all think he should see ballpark numbers of about 4500 rpm and around 45 mph with that prop Like mentioned earlier the carb seems good unless the secondaries are not opening at all so check that out. It's got small primary throttle plates and BIG secondaries so 3200 or so rpm might be all you get on the primaries before the secondaries are needed And....check the timing at idle and at about 3000 rpm too like mentioned earlier. |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 10:38am
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What these guys said... and also double check that you don't have two plug wires switched. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 11:39am
I like that suggestion 1 2 7 5 6 3 4 8 for a reverse rotation Chevy going clockwise around the cap |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 1:55pm
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Gents, Thanks for all the help, Here are the numbers off of the brand new Distributor. 2548201H As far as asking the PO a question. I tried once and was disappointed in the answer, enough said. I'll check the firing order, and the secondaries. I don't suspect the wires to be crossed as it runs so well, no shaking, easy to start, although it does have that tell tale cough once in a while. Flat Mallory distributor cap. Hate those, had a Ford 427 that used that type of cap. There's a very tiny tin clip inside the cap that comes loose and ruins the cap in short order. That was a long time ago, hopefully they are better now.  ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 2:46pm
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That's the number for an automotive dual point , it'll work but there's always that boom factor
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Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 3:20pm
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There is a difference in the part number from all the like distributors I looked at on line. I could not find a single one with the part number ending in an A There are 2548201 numbers but not 2548201A Once I finish the other tests recommended above I'll see about acquiring a "Marine" distributor. Tony ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 3:24pm
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2548201 H is what I was meaning to say. It's the H that doesn't show up anywhere but on my particular distributor. ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: swilliams
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 6:04pm
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Yeah Tony but when you get everything ironed out, that Chevy has tons of power. ------------- 1976 Martinique,350 Omc. 1975 Glastron/Carlson CV16,115 Merc. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-26-2017 at 11:03pm
That N at the end just signifies changes or variations over the years In the beginning there was the 2548201, first variation had an A tacked on the end......then the next was a B .............you can figure out the rest That basic part number has been around probably since the small block chevy showed up in 1955 |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 12:58am
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Update::::::: Tonight I had a chance to try and answer some of the questions I've been asked pertaining To this engine issue. i replaced the plugs, most were looking OK, but some were a bit dark, All were firing,. I also checked the firing order, OK. I checked the RPM's against my timing light. Perfect right on the mark. I tried to check the timing but the flywheel has one mark, so it's difficult to measure the advance. Suffice to say it does advance seemingly at the correct rate. I removed the distributor cap. The first thing I noticed was that both sets of points were severely misaligned. The points do not seem to be the correct set for this distributor. I did my best to check the gap, set it at 16, replaced the cap and started the engine. Ran fine, shut it off and removed the cap again. One set is hardly making contact? Enclosed are a couple pictures. Let me know what you think. I was tempted to install the electronic module but held off. Tony   ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 7:58am
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Dumb question... you aren't setting the gap on both sets of points at the same time, are you? There is a mechanical offset between the 2 sets (the purpose of having dual points is longer total dwell) so you'll need to rotate the engine slightly between adjusting the 2 sets. The follower needs to be on the tip of the cam lobe when you set the gap. Checking dwell afterwards is a good idea too- this will tell you if they're both working well together. Regardless, if that isn't a marine distributor, you'll want to replace it. Don't take Ken's lighthearted description as anything but a serious explosion hazard. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 9:23am
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Those are Mallory points, you can see the funny little Mallory M symbol in your bottom photo. Don't resist the temptation, put your conversion kit in since the points look way out of alignment. At least it will give you some info about whether it's an ignition problem or not. And it's not a marine distributor but we already mentioned that |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 10:09am
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Might it not just be easier to remove the secondary point set and see if he can get it to run before adding another variable? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 10:26am
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I thought about that too Gary, but I wasn't sure what condition either set of points were really in since they were so misaligned. |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 2:17pm
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Gents:: I did notice the slight offset between the two sets of points and rotated the engine accordingly. It was a pain setting the points because they were flopping around. I checked to see if the points were correct to the distributor, they are, and in the picture they are shown misaligned? That's odd. On the timing. There is the single engraved line on the harmonic balancer and the little arrow attached to the block. I noticed people have affixed a tape type measure to the harmonic balancer which gives an accurate reading. The timing mark on my engine was about 1 inch north of the marker at 1000 rpm. Moved about 1..25 inches at 3,000rpm. If I opt out of using the Mallory, what's a good replacement? Thanks everyone, Tony ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 2:32pm
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The groove in the balance is the TDC (0deg) mark. You need an adjustable timing light or a timing tape to set the timing... without either, it's anyone's guess where it's set. You really need to know in order for it to run optimally. On a Chevy I would go DUI. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 3:09pm
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If you can measure the diameter of your harmonic balancer, it would be easy to come up with a homemade timing tape with marks at o 10 20 30 35 degrees using a little math. Chevy had a few different diameters so if you could measure and post it that would be helpful or if you can find a part number on it that would be just as helpful |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 3:09pm
Tim, really? A guess? It's pie times the radius squared divided by 360 will give you the dimension for each degree. Then if you have a tape measure, you can place a mark at the proper advance! BTW, pie is 3.147!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 3:16pm
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I almost thought we were agreeing again Pete, but circumference is Pi times the diameter or 2 times the radius times Pi
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Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 3:23pm
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I think he has cherry pie in mind! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 3:32pm
Ken, Thanks for the correction! Yup, it's been a few years since I've used the formula! Damn calculators have spoiled us old guys! (and the young as well)------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 4:24pm
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Yes, a guess! Timing tape would be the equivalent of a properly marked balancer, so let's not split hairs... but the latter does require some math (pi=3.14159 last I checked). Timing needs to be positively verified, how about that. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 5:56pm
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Tony Could you take a picture of the distributor from right above with the points mounting plate removed so that the advance plate that's under the points plate can be seen?. Just want to see what kind of advance mechanism you have and from there I may have a suggestion for a marine distributor solution for you. It's the round plate in the lower left with the point cam on it, it might look like this, it might not 
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Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 7:21pm
 I'll have to remove the Point's and plate to get the picture I believe you want. There are blue springs weights, no vacuum which I'm sure you are aware of. It's very clean, like new. Starts up immediately. Thank you, Tony D ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 8:03pm
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Do your weights and the plate look like the ones in my picture or are they different? No need for a picture if you know the answer to that question
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Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: June-29-2017 at 11:58pm
Must have changed it. Used to be pi+ 3.14159265359 ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-30-2017 at 1:27am
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Gents, Tonight after work I started working on this engine again. I removed the distributor cap and much to my dismay the carbon center electrode fell out. Apparently snapped off about midway into the cap. I removed the off center points to take a picture of the springs and weights. I can't upload pictures responding by phone? Everything was very clean and working well. So I decided to remove the cam lobe and install the electronic module. It was fairly straight forward until I attempted to remove the positive terminal from the coil only to have it break off. So $35. Later I installed a new coil, wired everything up put the carbon piece back in the distribution cap, turned the key and it started immediately. I know I have to get a new cap. $45 for that beauty. I also wrapped tape around the harmonic balancer, removed the tape, laid it flat on the gunnel to be measured. Forgot my ruler. I'll get that done tomorrow. So that's were I am today. Tomorrow maybe a short sea trial. See how it does. Tony D ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-30-2017 at 8:52am
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Must be a Mallory E Spark kit if you had to remove the cam lobe to install the conversion. By the way, if you shop on EBAY for an OMC distributor cap 982209 you can sometimes find them at crazy cheap prices for an OEM cap that's been sitting on a shelf for years. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xomc+982209.TRS0&_nkw=omc+982209&_sacat=0" rel="nofollow - ebay link So..... were your weights the same as my picture ? I think I see enough in your last picture to tell me that it has the newer style weights that are lighter and use lighter springs. You can just make out enough through the square hole in the points plate to see the advance limiting adjustment. Put the picture up anyways |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-30-2017 at 1:03pm
  I did check e Bay, I ordered a new one for $36 shipped. I wondered if that contact had been broken for a long time. The picture shows it laying in the bottom of the cap. For the brief moment I started it, (on it's trailer) it seemed to sound different. I plan on taking it out tonight if it's not raining. Thank you for your interest and help. It's a pleasant surprise how much help a person can get using this forum. Tony D ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: June-30-2017 at 1:11pm
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Forgot to mention, I ordered the exact same cap, for the Mallory, It's a 209M. And yes I did install the Mallory electronic ignition module. Taking the cam off was part of the procedure. I tucked that little piece that is part of the center electrode back into the cap which is spring loaded and for now it worked, but not for long. I'm sure. Tony D ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: July-01-2017 at 9:14pm
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Update:::: Sea Trial. First I was asked to measure the diameter of the Harmonic Balancer. 19 1/4 inch or 52.5 mm. This measurement was for timing. So I launched the boat, opened the engine cover and started it up. First thing I noticed was the idle was set much too high. It was fine last time I ran the boat. I set it back to 650-700. It had a very smooth idle. I idled out of the marina. At 1,500 RPM it's doing around 12 MPH. I advanced the throttle to 2000 = 20 MPH. Slowly advanced to 3,000, right around 30 MPH. Lot of wind. So I pushed it avid more, prior to making the adjustments that had been suggested 3,200 was all it would make. This time it jumped to 4,000, so I advanced it a bit more and saw 4,600. It was too choppy for me to look at my phone. But it was quick. I think it will make close to 5,000. It was just to rough to get full wot. So things are much better after removing the point set. Now I have to figure out what to do with the non marine compliant Carburetor. I turned the engine off at the dock. Turned the key to see if it would restart without a lot of throttle and it started immediately with no throttle. The electronic module seemed to do the trick. Tony D ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: adaily
Date Posted: July-01-2017 at 9:16pm
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Non compliant distributor, not Carburetor. ------------- A Daily |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-01-2017 at 11:01pm
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So..................boat runs good with the Mallory E spark conversion in it, the cap is gonna get replaced with the new one you ordered and the carburetor seems like it's treating you just fine. The carburetor is marine, I wouldn't worry about that at all. I'd look for a good used cheap Mallory marine distributor like a YL624 AV that you could put your module in the 19.25 is the circumference unless you got yourself a really huge harmonic balancer .Don't throw away the points plate, but take them points and stomp on them till they are totally broken and say "take that Pete" over and over while you're stomping on them Just the points not the plate, keep that as a spare with a new set of points.Your distributor has the later YH advance mechanism. A real good distributor, just not Marine certified. And one last thing, check your PM's. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-01-2017 at 11:26pm
Ken, A set of points, a feeler gauge and a dwell meter would have done the same!  and, with a point set you don't need to have a spare module on board just in case!! Tony, I suggest getting a spare E spark. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-01-2017 at 11:31pm
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By the way you have a 6 inch diameter harmonic balancer so every degree is .0523 inches or 10 degrees would be .523 inches. So from tdc to 10 degrees is .523 inches, 20 degrees would be 1.05 30 degrees would be 1.57 inches and 36 degrees would be 1.88 inches if you making a homemade timing tape or you could just buy one from Summit, Jegs, maybe a local parts store. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-01-2017 at 11:33pm
But then I couldn't have got a dig in about points and that wouldn't have been as much fun Pete
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