1993 SN Throttle Friction ?
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37724
Printed Date: April-27-2024 at 6:34pm
Topic: 1993 SN Throttle Friction ?
Posted By: FredWSauer
Subject: 1993 SN Throttle Friction ?
Date Posted: November-22-2015 at 2:00pm
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I looked over my owners manual and the brochures for my 93 SN and also did a search in the forums and I was unable to find an answer? Does the throttle lever or cable have a friction setting screw or something to hold the throttle in position? If you have one hand on the wheel and one hand holding the throttle, how do you drink your beer? Thanks. - Fred ------------- - FWS 1993 Ski Nautique 1978 Glastron T-160 1994 Weeres Pontoon - Wife's Boat |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-22-2015 at 2:38pm
Fred, You don't!  Hands on the helm controls at all times. However, you may want to take a look at the spring return at the carb. But, you do need some in case of a cable or throttle problem.------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
FredWSauer wrote:Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-22-2015 at 3:00pm
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Well you never know what a PO did, maybe they put to heavy a spring on or put it back wrong? My Mustang did that too,hated it so much that it was the cause for me to find the original controls. If after everything checks out you could try one of http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=9534" rel="nofollow - these they must be made for a reason--- ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: gdenkman
Date Posted: November-22-2015 at 3:35pm
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Fred, I believe that the throttle is designed to come back to an idle ahead position if you let go of it, at least that's what mine does. I think it's a safety issue and if you adjust the friction/resistance of the throttle, so that it remains at whatever position you have it set, you defeat the safety aspect. Imagine being incapacitated at the helm, perhaps struck in the back of the head by a ski handle released too late by an inexperienced skier, a medical condition, or some other condition that makes you unable to manage the controls, throttle and steering. I think most would discourage adjusting the throttle in the manner you suggest. How about this?  ------------- 94 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-22-2015 at 4:27pm
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Greg, Not naming anyone, I think several members already have the hands free kits. The only problems with them is if one container goes empty first from say a slight tilt of the head, all you get is air. As a consultant to one of these members, I suggested installing fuel tank ant-siphon valves at each branch. I don't think he ever implemented the idea since he decided that the two beverages per loading wasn't enough anyway. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-22-2015 at 5:07pm
Not so sure about that,are you saying when they went to FI that they eliminated that function ? What about if you have a Perfect Pass engaged and you come incapacitated? If that is it's use why the safety lanyard? Why do inboards have that function while outboards do not and some even have friction adjusters on the control? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-22-2015 at 5:13pm
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Greg, Gary makes some very good points. The first thing I thought about when you mentioned becoming incapacitated is cruise controls in cars and they don't even have a safety lanyard. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: poz
Date Posted: November-22-2015 at 7:16pm
| I don't know the facts about if they are designed to return to idle on there own. Here is my experiences. The 1995 SN with GT 40 did not return to idle on its own. The 1992 I have now did not return to idle on its own until I increased the return spring tension. I increased the tension because it did not always return to the set idle speed. I did that to the spring as a quick fix but I wonder if a cable adjustment would have been the proper fix. Just my experience. Haven't driven my 99 enough to know how it acts. |
Posted By: FredWSauer
Date Posted: November-23-2015 at 8:46pm
I didn't explain well as mine tends to pop back to idle and jerk the boat. I am going to look at the spring setup and see if the PO was messing with it. Every boat (4x) I have owned has always set where you left it. They were all outboards and had a friction screw on the control. It's funny how these forums and threads go hard right or left at any given time. Thanks for the hands free beer pic! .  ------------- - FWS 1993 Ski Nautique 1978 Glastron T-160 1994 Weeres Pontoon - Wife's Boat |
Posted By: KRoundy
Date Posted: November-24-2015 at 9:44pm
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I've driven a few DD boats over the years and cannot think of one where I could just set the throttle and forget it. There is not a "friction adjustment" as you mention on your 1993 Morse control. Good news - your throttle cable is definitely not gummed up and in need of replacement! Explain a bit more the problem. If you are cruising along at 30 and you let go of the throttle it will instantly pop back to idle? Or, is it a jerking action that happens as you start to throttle down? ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: November-24-2015 at 11:14pm
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Bizarre thread. 40+ years in countless old inboards, Century, Correct Craft, Master Craft... hutchinson, chris craft....you name it.......never once been in one that requires constant hand throttle pressure to maintain speed.......set it and forget it.....never driven a new-fangled lanyard-equipped boat and certainly never a perfect pass...decades past what I'm used to, , but can't imagine the concept.......seriously, you take hand off throttle and it stops? For real? ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |
Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 12:30am
That's exactly what I was thinking. My '89, '92, my brothers Fountain and every other boat I've ever driven. Set it and forget it. |
Posted By: MechGaT
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 12:38am
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My 92 slows down to about 20 when I let go of the throttle, but the PO also put a non marine carb on it. One of my winter projects is to change it out. ------------- '92 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 6:28am
Fred, I may not understand what you're saying and maybe others don't ether. If you let go of the throttle, does it move back to idle by it's own or, if you move the throttle back does it seem to hang up and then "pop" back to idle? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: geecee
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 8:08am
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all my boats have been set and forget ------------- 1983 Ski Nautique '2001' -Chev 350 Mercruiser -Custom Wake Tower -Custom Interior |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 8:25am
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Our '92 was the same way. You had to keep your hand on the throttle to maintain speed. If you let it go, the lever would move back on it's own to a much slower speed (not quite idle). I never got around to looking into why it did this. Our new boat stays where you put the lever. No need to keep a hand on the throttle. ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 9:32am
| Is it an MV2? Ours does the same thing. Boat doesn't stay straight either if you let go of wheel. I think it's supposed to be that way. |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 9:58am
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Still sounds weird to me.....previously the newest boat I ever drove was Morfoot's 88, so was thinking maybe a new boat thing, but then realized the 2015 pontoon we rented this summer was normal. Something's wrong, why would a newish boat have a safety lanyard then? Must be difficult to maintain a constant ski speed if you have to hold it. ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 10:30am
| Before there was cruise control, the driver had to constantly adjust the speed and steering to stay at a constant speed for pulling a skier and the sensitive controls made it easier. Our '03 did take some time getting used to. When cruising around, if I have to drink something I can maintain speed with my right forearm while my hand holds the wheel steady, freeing up my left hand. |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 1:20pm
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I can tell you with certainty that all mine and every other brand new CC I have driven came from the factory with set it and forget it throttles. Even the floor mounted gas peddle models I have driven were the same way. If you are worried about safety in this regards wear your lanyard or add one if not equipped. FYI, perfect pass disengages when the throttle is moved back, a throttle that did not hold position would definitely be a problem if used in conjunction with PP. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 1:30pm
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Bruce, I have the 206 setup with a neutral or non loaded rudder, meaning if I want to I can let go of the wheel and the boat will maintain that line really well. Hard pulling skier will effect that of course but if you have a novice or someone mostly just following it takes very little effort to keep your straight line. One other point about Perfect Pass, it really is a great safety feature, while driving I do not need to watch my speedos or tweek the throttle to maintain speed, that attention can remain focused on where you are going and your skier, still keep my hand at the throttle but really only for when I need to stop. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 1:59pm
| There is no return tension built into either the cable or the morse control. The carb throttle shafts have a little bit of return tension on them but are unlikely to overcome the friction in the cable. An external return spring between the carb throttle arm and the engine (usually attached to the intake manifold or similar) may cause throttle spring back. This depends on the strength and tension on the spring, as well as how smooth the cables are. It's not the intent to return the throttle if not held, but rather to return the throttle if the cable breaks- but it can definitely act that way. Most pcm's were set up with this spring, but not all marinizers used one. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 3:18pm
| Our '03 is a Malibu, so it may be the difference in the way they set them up. I've only driven a couple Malibus and a couple late model SN, but there is no comparison in how the 2 brands track. Our Sportster has a lot of load on the rudder. You can't take your hand off the wheel for a split second when you are going fast. The throttle has no resistance and if you take your hand off of it, the boat will slow down to 10-15 mph. It took some getting used to as all the boats I've driven haven't had any load on the rudder and the throttle has stuck. None of the boats we've had have had throttle springs on them except for the Classic and that wasn't set up at the factory. I've seen a device for sale at SkiDim that allows your throttle to stay stuck, but it's just a tensioner that you attach to the throttle cable. |
Posted By: gdenkman
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 5:43pm
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Sounds like we need an official ruling. Could Al shed some light on this issue? Maybe the Boat Dr.? ------------- 94 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 6:48pm
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How's this? Old boats function normally....some new boats don't. ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |
Posted By: FredWSauer
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 7:09pm
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When I let go of the throttle it moves back to idle fairly quickly. Not as much of a jerk as I let on with the previous post; but, it does slow down. ------------- - FWS 1993 Ski Nautique 1978 Glastron T-160 1994 Weeres Pontoon - Wife's Boat |
Posted By: ZHadley
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 8:26pm
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My 92 and 2013 both hold position/speed. Same with my friends one of which has a Malibu and a different with a Mastercraft. The only boat I've driven that didn't was an old hallet flat bottom v drive with a foot pedal. And yes, it was pretty challenging to hold speed and course with my dad trying to pull it around while skiing! Zach |
Posted By: KRoundy
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 8:55pm
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I may have to retract my statement. I recall distinctly that my father's 1977 Glastron with a Mercury outboard needed constant pressure to keep up speed. If you let go the throttle would slowly retard. Side note: That boat was quite the machine. Glastron 176 SSV modified v-hull. The engine was a 175HP Black Max - overpowered for the hull back before the lawyers took over the world. My dad did that just for better water skiing hole shot. I recall that the speedometer pegged at 52-ish, and I pegged it multiple times where it would just stick and not move. Anyhow, I grew up driving that boat and perhaps that just taught me to always keep my right hand on the throttle. On my 1993 SN I can let go of the throttle and it will stay there. The boat was not running but I just ran out to my garage and did it again to convince myself that is how it works. Sorry for adding to the confusion. I wonder if Fred will come back and tell us all what is going on and answer the question that Pete and I asked? ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 9:26pm
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Who's the boat dr? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: gdenkman
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 10:22pm
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Boat Dr. is Billy Sutton ------------- 94 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 10:57pm
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I kinda remember the name,what ever happened to him? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: November-26-2015 at 11:29am
Steer with your knee, like the people on the interstate who are eating lunch while driving. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: FredWSauer
Date Posted: November-26-2015 at 11:54am
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Thanks to all for the chit-chat. My little 90 merc outboard controller will let me run hands off and not loose throttle position. That is how all boats have been that I have owned or driven. My question to this pool of experts was if the 93 SN had a friction screw or adjustment. My 93 SN will slow rather quickly when you let go of the throttle. If I am running at 36 mph and reach up to grab me beer before I can get a sip, the boat will be at 20 mph. I saw the comment about the throttle spring and will look at that.  ------------- - FWS 1993 Ski Nautique 1978 Glastron T-160 1994 Weeres Pontoon - Wife's Boat |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: November-26-2015 at 12:27pm
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The correlation between the shifting and throttle characteristics of an outboard and a velvet drive inboard are two completely different animals and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same thread. Apples and oranges. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-26-2015 at 2:02pm
| I'd be interested to hear from someone with tournament experience how the boats are supposed to be set up. I will say for cruising around and drinking a beverage, the loose set up is not as good as one that sticks, both throttle and steering wheel, but for actively driving it is better and more fun. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-26-2015 at 3:49pm
Sorry to disagree Eddie,you use one lever it puts whatever transmission in gear and as you move that lever it opens the throttle,the control not caring what it's connected to. Here is the opening paragraph in the MV3 instructions- The Morse MV-3 Control is designed to provide convenient, one hand, single lever operation of shift and throttle for most popular outboards, sport jets, inboards equipped with hydraulic reverse gears and Berkeley or similar jet pumps. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: November-26-2015 at 5:18pm
+1 ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: November-26-2015 at 9:48pm
I wasn't talking about the engineered physical operation of outboard throttle controls. I've driven single, twin and triple rig outboards. Every one you've had to stab it into gear to keep it from grinding gears. They're hard to shift and have considerably more friction running all the way through the RPM range then any velvet drive inboard I've ever driven. That's what I was getting at.. Spend a day behind the wheel driving a figure eight barefoot tournament with a world class outboard barefoot boat and you'll find out really quick that the controls pretty much suck compared to our boats. There is no comparison. Apples and Oranges. I'm sure that the new drive-by-wire rigs have to be considerably smoother but I haven't had the pleasure as of yet. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-26-2015 at 11:41pm
But the comments are of the throttle staying in position after it has been shifted. You could, after either one has been shifted into gear physically disconnect the shift cable and the results would be the same. My comment was merely why would a 300 hp outboard's throttle stay where set and have a friction control and a 300 hp inboards return if it were for safety? No returns on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTzWDC6E6o" rel="nofollow - these bad boys  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: November-27-2015 at 7:55am
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Eddie I would agree that historically you always had to kind of jam an outboard into gear with unpleasant sounds, my aunt had a Force that was absolutely rediculous, and the Evinrude on my brothers Sutphen took considerable persuasion. However, times have changed. Having spent some time recently running a 2015 Yamaha with Yamaha throttle assembly, I would say it was the smoothest shifting boat, of any type, that I have ever driven, bar none.....unbelievable, smooth as silk. The downside was it was so quiet, virtually silent, that I once almost tried to start it while it was already running. .. LPSL save lives...and apparently almost starters as well.... ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: November-27-2015 at 8:00am
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PS: I was also surprised to find the Yamaha setup had no pin so no ability to rev in neutral, apparently they are so reliable there is no need. ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: November-27-2015 at 12:45pm
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Again, I have to respectfully disagree with you Gary about the safety aspect. Our boats were designed for a sole purpose. Pulling a skier. They were engineered from day one to be fitted with an inboard. Every one of us pretty much agree that our boats suck in rough water, they suck for space, they suck for getting around the cockpit, they suck for comfort. But they do one thing better than any other boat.....pulling a skier. Ski boats have evolved to provide more space, or comfort or rough water riding than another but in virtually every case, that robs from Peter to pay Paul and ultimately the skier suffers. There isn't a person on this site who can disagree that a closed bow tournament boat still, without question, provides the finest wake, tracking and performance for a skier. Not a wakeboarder or tuber or sky skier or show skier or even a barefooter. All of those skiing regimens evolved from the original intended purpose. Pulling a skier. The only engineering incorporated into an outboard is to propel a hull through the water. Any hull and any type of water for virtually any purpose. These engines and their controls were never designed purely for the purpose of pulling a skier. My boat unquestionably is the ultimate tool for pulling a skier. I can shift it with one finger either forward or reverse. I can pull a skier out of the hole with my arm resting on a very comfortable rest and nothing more than my thumb on the throttle. During the run I can throttle up by more thumb pressure or releasing thumb pressure lets you slow down instantly. How can you not consider that a huge safety aspect? I'm providing the best, safest pull for my skier. I don't care about why or how it doesn't do what an outboard does or God forbid, that I can't drink a beer while driving. Should we realty get into that little safety debate?????. If drinking a beer while driving is so damn paramount, buy an outboard. If you want a pure skiing machine, there is nothing on this planet that compares to our boats. I've pretty much on every response here. Apples and oranges. No comparison. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-27-2015 at 5:29pm
| There are plenty of outboards that use the same Morse control that our inboards do. I was in a mid 90's Flightcraft Barefooter (ob) this summer that was so equipped. Still shifted lousy, but that's not the controls fault. No idea if it held speed without maintaining pressure on the throttle. Like an inboard, I am sure that depends on the connections and other features at the carb/engine end. Like an inboard, I suspect nothing else in the path features a return spring. |
Posted By: FredWSauer
Date Posted: November-27-2015 at 5:53pm
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WOW! If this thread is still alive next spring I will video tape the controls and see what we think. The beer comment was an analogy. If I have a hand on the wheel during a turn pulling a skier, tube, etc. and have to let go of the throttle for a second 'cause I turned into a wake, hmm wasnt' watching everything, and got a bump and had to grab the side of the boat for a second, burmmmmmm the boat slows down more then just a trickle or a bit. Hey, I agree with the boat SN is a tool for pulling skiers. Best boat, best wake, best. ------------- - FWS 1993 Ski Nautique 1978 Glastron T-160 1994 Weeres Pontoon - Wife's Boat |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-27-2015 at 7:54pm
Greg, You haven't been spending much time with us have you? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: November-27-2015 at 8:40pm
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Eddie: My mistake, I thought we were just talking about throttle mechanisms on this thread not ski boat attributes; in which i might add hull design plays as much or more of an important role in the ideal wake than the manner of propulsion.... Speaking for all us bastard stepchildren on the site who have and prefer a deep V, anytime you want to ride in a boat that doesn't "suck" for any or all the reasons that yours apparently does, just let me know...  ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: November-28-2015 at 10:51am
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Sorry Jeff, I answered from my phone and the brain was definitely moving faster then my fingers so I didn't convey my point as I wanted to. What I was trying to say is that our boats were designed to pull a skier. First and foremost. I can't ever remember driving a DD inboard that didn't have the throttle return if you let go. I'm saying they were designed to be operated that way. For the sake of argument lets just forget about how ski boats have evolved into what they are today to accommodate all the different skiing regimens. On the flip side I don't ever recall driving an OB boat that had the throttle return if you let go. "Set it and forget like it" like it has been pointed out. I'm saying that OB engines were designed to be used to power a boat through the water and it could care less what the intended use is. Keeping that in mind, I can give a skier the best pull they deserve and expect with minimal effort and extremely comfortably literally with one finger from the time they say "Hit it" until the end of their run. More or less thumb pressure is all that's needed to make speed adjustments because the throttle returns if I release pressure. I can't do that with a "set it and forget it" throttle without considerable more effort on my part which makes driving more of a challenge. That in turn takes away from my responsibilities as a driver to my skier. Not impossible by any means but certainly more challenging. Further more, if you're driving a skier purely by "set it and forget it", you aren't giving them a good pull and that can ultimately lead to injury. So I ask again, how is that not a safety factor? I've done a lot of stupid stuff in my life. I've been hurt and have hurt others because of piss poor driving. I like to think that I've learned from it. When I hear of someone who wants to change an operational aspect that makes driving a skier more challenging (in my personal experience) is just asking to hurt somebody so I have pretty strong feelings about it. I certainly do apologize to all of you loyal CCFans on my rant. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-28-2015 at 11:35am
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So bottom line your saying that with N3 a Nautique dealer, in selling me my 95 who's throttle does not return is liable for any accident or injury? You would think a Nautique dealer would check an important safety feature such as that. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: November-28-2015 at 12:19pm
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Eddie I was just pointing out your broad use of the phrase "OUR boats were designed to pull a skier". Mine wasn't.... SW wake certainly not ideal, but ok for recreational skiing, and outstanding roomy comfortable ride for general boating under any conditions, what " IT"was designed for, and why we got it..... plus I've got another that although also deep V, has a quite decent wake for even a fairly aggressive skier, and as it's only 16'7" with a big 360 v-drive is just a whole lotta fun..... Both set and forget like every single boat ever driven. Still dumbfounded by this spring return debate, maybe we need to go right to the source and get some input from Art Cozier? ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |