1964 ski Nautique project
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37550
Printed Date: April-29-2024 at 2:59am
Topic: 1964 ski Nautique project
Posted By: Eether
Subject: 1964 ski Nautique project
Date Posted: October-20-2015 at 10:35pm
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Hi guys, long time lurker looking for a bit of advice. First of all thanks to all those that have posted pictures of Stringer replacement and documented the process.. I'm sure I've read every one. I'm looking at a 64 ski Nautique that is in fairly rough shape. The stringers definitely need to be replaced. The current owner had the original 312 y Block rebuilt and has all the receipts. It has a dual side draft Weber intake which I haven't seen very much. The Stringers and hull look a little different from those on later model boats but I assume the process is the same? Also, the engine and transmission mounts look different as well in that there doesn't appear to be any vertical adjustment other than adding shims underneath the pads that bolt to the stringers. Is there a better option for this? Is there anything specifically I should look at or inspect? Thanks so much! |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-21-2015 at 12:26am
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Ethan, Welcome and make sure we get some pictures. You are correct that the stringer replacement process is the same no matter what hull or boat. Just take plenty of measurements and duplicate the originals. Wedges and shims for engine alignment are the norm in older hulls. There's nothing wrong with them and pretty easy to use. Those side draft carbs are Carter YH's and not Weber's. What trans is in it? The Dearbomatic? If so, has any work been done on it? Does the engine run? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: October-21-2015 at 1:37am
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Thanks for the quick response! I haven't purchased the boat yet, I'm still deciding while doing some research. The engine is still on the stand. It was rebuilt by a reputable local engine shop.The current owner is going to confirm what the transmission is. He said it was in service when he got it but the engine was smoking, hence the rebuild. I know it has a large cast aluminum mounting bracket which seems to match some pictures of dearbomatics I've found. Is it difficult to switch to a velvet drive so far as adapter plates, mounts etc? I would basically get everything for just over half of what he has in just the engine rebuild. |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: October-21-2015 at 3:27am
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I am always excited to see a Gen 1 Ski Nautique saved from the landfill and restored. My Dad has one, and aside from asthetics, it is pretty much in factory original condition. I have tons of pictures and can always take more if you are looking for anything specific. Weber Carbs would be really unique, so I am siding with Pete on the Carter YH's, sounds like the same set up as my Dad's: Ford 312 Y Block with Carter YH Carbs and an Interceptor Marine conversion. Most of the manuals are in the reference section. Post some pics when you get a chance. ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-21-2015 at 8:11am
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Ethan, A switch to a Velvet drive isn't difficult but finding a bell housing may be. However, the nice thing about the Velvet is the input face/flange is made to SAE specs so not impossible to find. The damper plate (flex plate) on the flywheel is a standard readily available part. If you ever talk to the engine rebuilder,ask them if they did the rocker arm shaft modification. It involves plugging the oil drain hole in the aft end of the shaft. There's information on the mod on Yblocksforever.com ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: October-21-2015 at 8:29am
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Your guys are right. The carbs are carter's. I've always had a soft spot for older correctcrafts and I really like the split cockpit. Hopefully I can save this one. Thanks for the offer skutsch, the seats are toast so having a few pictures and measurements would be a great help in time . There's a fairly vast boat boneyard not far from here with a 70s cc skier lying in ruin. I know it's has a velvet drive although it is mounted behind a Chrysler 318. Thanks for the heads-up on the engine mod. Hopefully I can post some picture later this week. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-21-2015 at 8:58am
| If you have a Dearbo model C, you will not need a different bell housing. The VD will match what you have. You will need to change the dampner plate, shorten the shaft and install new trans cooler lines. If you have an older Dearbo than a C, you will need a different bell housing. There's a guy in South Portland Maine that still has a lot of Interceptor parts. Last I saw he still had a few bell housings hanging on a wall. If you have a C and are going to replace it, I would be interested in buying it. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-21-2015 at 9:31am
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Is this the turquoise SN that had been painted white with red/blue stripes? I'm glad someone finally snapped it up. I'm betting that Skier in the boneyard is dark green? It's been discussed here as well, the guy is real proud of it. Very cool boat and color though. |
Posted By: SWANY
Date Posted: October-21-2015 at 11:05am
| Tim, what green skier are you referring to? |
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: October-21-2015 at 12:18pm
It is right off of I-85 on a Service Road under a big Doplar Weather Radar for the local Greenville, SC TV Station near Easley, SC. . It sits on top of a large hill. Many have seen it from the highway during the winter when the grass is dead, but the guy who runs the boat lot thinks it is worth a lot of money. It is on a non CC Trailer, but otherwise seems to be close to being together with the motor box open. It has a yellowish faded windshield. However, I have only looked from the fence which is about 60 feet away. It has to be s full of water and who know what else. Hopefully, the plug is not in it. As each year passes, it becomes more and more of a parts boat and bar project. It is a crying shame. Eight years ago, it could of been saved. Now it is not worth it. She was green. JMO, Donald ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens 2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S. 1968 Ski Nautique, Project. |
SWANY wrote:Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: October-21-2015 at 2:20pm
| I looked the boat over maybe a month ago. The plugs had clogged with debris and the water was up several inches over the floor boards. I covered the engine back up and drained the water out just to ease her suffering if nothing else. The boat has been there in that same spot since at least 2000 since looked it over for the first time. Its truly a shame.. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-21-2015 at 4:28pm
There was a thread a long time ago about it with pictures and a google earth screen capture of it too  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-21-2015 at 4:39pm
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Just as I had expressed interest back when that thread came up, I'm in contact with Ethan now about that Skier... Would love to bring it back to its former glory. We shall see. Now I want to hear and see more about that '64Sn! |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-23-2015 at 9:44am
Dearbo Model C
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-23-2015 at 10:08am
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Bruce, Yup, just looking at the bolts, I can see it's an SAE flange pattern. I cringe every time I see your carb and intake!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: October-24-2015 at 10:01pm
well.. its a project...  
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Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: October-24-2015 at 10:16pm
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This looks just like the one above save the condition, so I'm assuming Dearbo model c.. most of the posts I found on these were a few years old, so are there still parts available for these? 
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Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-24-2015 at 11:49pm
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So did you end up getting it then? Although it's 3 years newer http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32011&PN=1&title=67-sn-resto-mod-rev-2" rel="nofollow - here is Craigs project that will give you some great reading. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: November-12-2015 at 9:35pm
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Well..its been a bit so here is a little update. while waiting on materials to arrive from us composites, I tore into the original raw water pump. It was totally shot and no replacement parts are to be found aside from the impellors and mechanical seal. I considered switching to a crank driven pump but didnt really care for how it would look.. I bored out the rear housing and pressed in a bushing as well as truing up the impellor mating surface..   At this point the epoxy and fiberglass showed up so it was on to the starboard stringers...  This is what awaits on the other side.. Notice the fern that has been growing pretty well considering the conditions.  At this point the plan is to finish the stringers and laterals and then flip the boat to give the bottom some attention. It appears a po painted some type of antifouling goop that the gel boat didnt react well to. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-12-2015 at 9:50pm
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Ethan, Nice work on the pump. There is always a way when it comes to restoration!  Keep going on that hull. You have a ways to go but it will be worth the effort. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-12-2015 at 9:55pm
Hard parts are not available. That's why I'd be interested in yours if you want to sell it. We had one rebuilt a few years ago and all it needed was a clutch pack and a new bearing. It has worked fine since. The one in the picture I posted needs a rebuild as it has a dirty neutral and slips occasionally on take off. |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: November-12-2015 at 10:03pm
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Thanks Pete, I don't know how original I'll be able to keep every little minutia, but I like doing what I can.. đ I might let the dearbomatic go Bruce. I found a velvet drive that I plan on using. I debated back and forth, but ultimately I think the velvet will serve me better in the long run. The tranny mount on the dearbo was broken and welded back together at some point. When the stringers started going south they kept running it to the detriment of a couple different items on the boat. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-12-2015 at 10:11pm
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Ethan, I've got a Velvet on my 312. I feel for you it would be the smart way to go. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-13-2015 at 9:35am
| VD would be a good way to go where you are tearing the boat all apart. The originality aspect of it really doesn't mean anything to a Correct Craft unless you're going to restore that boat exactly as it came from the factory. We want to stay with the Dearbo because it's the most cost affective way to deal with the tranny and they have worked well for us. Very few people will work on them or even know what they are. |
Posted By: nautique frk
Date Posted: November-16-2015 at 11:04pm
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Tim and Donald, I am in Greenville SC right now for business, I stopped by today in Piedmont SC to see the Green Skier I have watched and tried to buy for years and see Jim Forrester the old guy that owns the old salvage yard. He sold the Skier and it was picked up this past Saturday he said a guy in the Greenville area picked it up. I am the one that posted the photos of it on here years ago. So it might pop up on here soon. Keep your eyes open for it. There was pieces of the old green upholstery on the ground by the foam blocks it sat on for years. I will be interesting where it pops up. |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: November-16-2015 at 11:13pm
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Yeah, it might just pop up some day..
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Posted By: nautique frk
Date Posted: November-16-2015 at 11:16pm
| Ethan So did you get it ? Good for you if you did. I had tried to buy it for at least 15 years Jim wanted waaay too much for it. Post some pics if you got it. every time I traveled this stretch of 85 I would go by and check on it and talk with Jim. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-17-2015 at 7:50am
| Still gotta work out the logistics with Ethan, but that green Skier should be headed up this way Mike. (Thanks again Ethan, I'll call you this week!!!) |
Posted By: juniorwoody
Date Posted: November-17-2015 at 9:38am
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Need an empty hitch Tim? Coming up next week to CT for a short trip. ------------- The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 7:55pm
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So... just have one secondary stringer left and then its on to floor related supports and what not. After looking at the skier and then talking to Tim I'm thinking about moving the raw water pickup farther aft. Right now its just forward of the tracking fin which doesnt seem the best. Since in a week or two the boat will be flipped to redo the gelcoat it seems like it might be as good time as ever. I'm open to any thoughts anyone might have.. Also Im wondering if there are any first gen sn owners near greenville sc or surrounding that would'nt be apposed to me coming and taking some measurements of various things that are missing from my boat. The 70s windshield is off and will NOT be reinstalled so it looks like Ill be making a proper looking one.. 
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Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 8:27pm
Great News Tim. I am glad it is going to good hands, but I will kind of sorta miss seeing it about every three weeks as I pass it on I-85 as I travel for business.  I am curious if the trailer that it sat on was usable? I am pretty sure you will be changing it to a Correct Craft Trailer. However, I never got close enough to really check it out. I has been several years since I have even gotten close to it. Even then I never got past the dang tall fence. Donald ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens 2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S. 1968 Ski Nautique, Project. |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 8:33pm
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It was hard to see through the weeds and trees, but it actually was sitting on foam blocks. It's sitting on a Correct Craft number 2 right now, but it's just a loaner.. The boatyard is shutting down, so I don't know how much longer it would have been there. 
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Posted By: KRoundy
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 8:44pm
Wow. Saved right before the final bell sounds. Well done!  ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: November-25-2015 at 8:48pm
| This thread should probably be renamed " the infamous skier. Oh and some other boat project.. Haha |
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: November-27-2015 at 10:26am
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Well there has to be at least 150 or more boat for him to get rid of if he is selling that property. My guess is that property is very valuable and most of those boat will have to go to a landfill. However, it will take one heck of a landfill and many saw blades or a heavy dozer to bust up those boats. There is likely a few highly sought after Bay Liners in that yard. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens 2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S. 1968 Ski Nautique, Project. |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-02-2016 at 12:59pm
Finally got the engine all back together.. Dropped it in the boat this morning just to make sure everything was going to line up down the road.   I don't know how many people even look at this thread, but I would just about kill for any pictures of early first gens anyone has. Specifically at this time how the battery area should be. It looks like there used to be a piece of plywood glassed to the bilge that the battery sat on. Also pictures of the plywood pieces that go on either side of the engine directly behind the seat need to be fabricated and there is nothing left to go off of. |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-02-2016 at 1:03pm
Or if there is a first gen closer than the 8 hours to Orlando I'd gladly bring a copious amount of the owners favorite brews for the opurtunity to look it over! 
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-02-2016 at 1:22pm
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Ethan, I think your fuel pump is upside down. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: January-02-2016 at 1:55pm
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Here are some of the pictures I think you are looking for... Battery Box - This is right in front of the pylon, under the front seats, shot is from leaning over the footboard and looking back to the motor:  It was moved to behind the Driver before we bought it (it was a demo boat):  Here are a couple of shots of the panel behind the driver seat next to the engine:   Panel behind the Observers seat is the same with no door. ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: January-02-2016 at 1:57pm
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I don't know if Dubuque IA is closer, but I could meet you there sometime, that is where my Dad has his boat... ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-02-2016 at 2:31pm
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Thanks skutsch! those are big help. Thanks for the offer, I'm down in SC, but if I visit my cousin that lives up there I'll keep that in mind. Does the bottom of the pylon on that boat anchor into the hull? Mine has a bracket that bolts to a bulkhead in between the primaries. That's a test to see how well you know y-blocks Pete..
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Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: January-02-2016 at 3:03pm
Yes, there is a bracket that is fiberglassed into the hull, you can kind of see it here: ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-02-2016 at 11:49pm
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Haha, better run out to the garage and look again, Pete! I thought the same thing until I looked closer, but I'm no y-block guy. I got a chance to check out Ethan's progress in person this past week, top notch all around. I can't wait to see it continue to progress! Skutch's dads boat will be a great reference point, almost all original! Phil's '65 he's redoing would be another... Here are a few threads to check out: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35457&title=1965-nautique-update" rel="nofollow - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35457&title=1965-nautique-update http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29052&KW=&title=1963-nautique-progress" rel="nofollow - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29052&KW=&title=1963-nautique-progress http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25180&KW=&title=63-sn-is-back-home" rel="nofollow - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25180&KW=&title=63-sn-is-back-home http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13945&KW=&title=63-ski-nautique" rel="nofollow - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13945&KW=&title=63-ski-nautique Does mike thrower (nautique frk) still have an early first gen? He's in your backyard, Ethan. I'll follow up in another thread about the Skier. :) |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-02-2016 at 11:58pm
Tim, My 312 the pump is the other way with the sediment bowl down. I know of another 312 which has the bowl at the bottom as well. With the bowl up, it makes it pretty hard to clean without getting gas all over so I'm confused! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: January-03-2016 at 12:06am
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this is so cool following these threads... john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-03-2016 at 12:10am
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A quick Google image search revealed more examples of the sediment bowl facing up than down, so take that for what it's worth. Plenty of results from this website, including the y that went from billy to roger. Perhaps more than one style of pump? This ones a carter iirc. I looked at Ethan's for a few minutes and the shape of the pump matched the boss of the block the way it was installed... Sure didn't seem to be an easy way to flip it. Caught my eye for sure but not being a y-block guy I was easily convinced he had it right! |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-03-2016 at 12:13am
| I don't know Pete, that's what I thought but it was like that when I got it and I'm not sure how it could be flipped and be still be actuated by the cam concentric. Fwiw I was looking at and old "jimmy" six cylinder in my dad's shop and the pump was mounted the same way. What are the casting numbers on yours? |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-03-2016 at 12:17am
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Thanks for all the links Tim, I just read them all! Looking forward to seeing that skier! |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: January-03-2016 at 12:26am
I wonder if you shut off the fuel and run it dry if the bowl empties by gravity. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-03-2016 at 6:53am
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Well, I just dug out the manual and the engine pictures do in fact show the pump sitting with the bowl up however, there are two pumps listed in the parts section. My 312 is under wraps down in the boat house so I'll need to get down there and take a look. I know it's a Carter but I want to see if I can get a part # off it see which one I have. I did put a rebuild kit in it several years ago but couldn't find the paper work that may have shown which pump mine is but, there's a possibility that both pumps would use the same kit. Visually both look the same so I'll see if I can find out what the difference is. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: January-03-2016 at 9:24am
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-03-2016 at 10:44am
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The main # on mine is MO-1521 with 3495s being stamped into the mounting boss edge. Id be interested in the other style if this one dies at some point in the future. The only place I could find that makes the rebuild kit was Then and now automotive. http://then-now-auto.com/contact-us/" rel="nofollow - carter rebuild They are really helpful! I havent uploaded many pics because stringer rebuilds are so well documented, but here is where things stand right now.. I need to grind more out of the bilge in preparation for fairing gel. How many layers of biax should I run over the shaft log? its bedded with milled fiber/epoxy and has one layer now.  Does anyone know what this is from and what I should have instead? My gear shift is on the dash so I just need throttle for what thats worth. The mounting paraphernalia for the original setup is still behind the mounting area. 
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-03-2016 at 11:11am
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Ethan, With a shift on the dash, the typical accelerator is a foot pedal. I'd go at least two layers of biax over the log. Three would be better. With each layer, go progressively bigger. That shift or throttle looks like it's from a 50's outboard. Was it installed in lieu of a foot pedal? Is there any evidence of a foot pedal? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-03-2016 at 11:15am
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Ethan, Have you been any CPES on the wood? The ply sole doesn't look like there's anything on it. How about the bottom of the ply? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-03-2016 at 11:19am
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There was a single lever Morse throttle that was available on the early boats and I would guess that may be what you had. They are referred to in the reference section. As odd as that upside down fuel pump looks, I can't see anyway that it could be mounted or put together backwards. There's one with the bottom bowl on ebay now. Edit: the fuel pump is no longer listed, but I think it was the same guy with the very high priced carb set up. You may want to contact him if your looking for one. |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-03-2016 at 11:28am
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Pete, everything has cpes with the exception of the top of the plywood as you noted. I cpes ed the bottom and edges and then covered it with a layer of glass before bedding it to the stringers. There was no evidence of a hot foot, but there wasn't much left of anything frankly. It does seem like the boat may have come with the ski group option as it has a factory tracking fin and the old mounting plate for the throttle looks factory. Thanks Bruce, I guess flea Bay would be the best option for that? |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-03-2016 at 11:33am
| I've seen them come up, but like anything unusual, you got to be in the right place at the right time. Let it be known that you're looking for one. We've got several members that seem to be extremely good at finding stuff when it comes up. |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-05-2016 at 8:56pm
Almost done fitting the floor. Haven't deciding what is going to happen under the fore deck as it was just a mass of foam.  |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: January-05-2016 at 9:44pm
I don't remember exactly, but I believe there is just a foot board that is at an angle. It is screwed into the floor (or maybe even on hinges) and then is just supported at the top by the side of the hull. Unfortunately I do not have any pictures... Just this one which shows the top of the foot board resting on the sides of the hull. ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: January-05-2016 at 10:53pm
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That's all that is in my '63 Skier, angled footboard. No hinges, it's fixed. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-06-2016 at 1:11am
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Wow I didn't realize it went up that high. Does that boat have a mound of foam poured haphazardly around the lift rod as well? There was a scrap of one main stringer that had a angled section, but I assumed it leveled back out like the later models. I was planning on pouring foam in that whole area up to the bow and then shaping it flat with a slight slope back towards the cockpit. It seems that's how Tims skier is. |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: January-06-2016 at 1:28am
There was never any foam put in this boat. Here is another picture of further up in the bow, you can see the rod going to the lifting ring, but I don't have any pictures showing where it attaches to the bottom of the hull, the point where it sounds like you found foam in yours..  ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: 70CC
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 8:58pm
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Ethan, Looks like you're making great progress! I would say the bulkhead mounted pylon is correct. Steve can correct me, but I don't think his Dad's boat has a bulkhead which is why the mount is glassed to the bottom of the floor. I'm going to guess your boat was made at a later time when CC added the bulkhead. Does anyone know if Art's boat has a bulkhead? As far as I can tell, the front floor section and seats are really unique in the Kutsch boat. Most that I have seen have a bench seat and under the seat is a large cut-out to access the battery. I'm attaching pics from Skeeter's 64 below so you can see the seat base construction and battery access that I believe is correct and more typical.   Since you don't have the original hand throttle, I'm assuming your boat was set up like mine, I'd suggest going with the foot throttle as it should be a lot easier to find one and I think it will be more functional. I am not looking forward to low speed maneuvering (like docking) with a shift on the dash and throttle only on the side both operated by the same hand. Seems like a clumsy set-up, -Phil |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 9:38pm
Ethan, I agree with Phil. As suggested, see if you can find a foot throttle. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: juniorwoody
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 9:52pm
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Hi Ethan, I have a 1960 Atom. Similar circumstances in regards the throttle. I found the Morse throttle mounted on the gunnel was to busy combined with the shifter lever on the column. Original was long gone but had been foot. I have been installing the teleflex cable system with a non original foot petal and I think operation will be much more user friendly. Go for it. ------------- The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 10:32pm
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Thanks for the pictures guys, they sure help alot! I picked up a old morse throttle/shift control from the boneyard this weekend just in case, but definitely prefer the dash shifter. Hadn't really thought of how awkward the split arrangement would be until it was just mentioned. It looks like the boat came with the hand throttle... All this is definitely something to think about. The boat is upside down right now and bunch of the gel is in the form of dust coating everything in my shop. Ill try to post a picture of the frame I used to flip the boat later this week. At this point the tentative plan is solid turquoise top and bottom with a white boot stripe, white seats with turquoise piping to set it off. Does anyone know of a good way to match the color other than trial and error? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 11:01pm
Ethan, http://www.minicraft.com/home" rel="nofollow - See if one of Mini-Craft of Florida has a standard gel color ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 11:23pm
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Last time I used Mini Craft they made the whole process difficult,good luck with them ,it's worth a try maybe I got a hold of someone on a bad day. I have some pictures of the boat Art cares for, I will post them tomorrow. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 8:20am
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Ok, some more questions for the geniuses of CCfan.. While removing the gelcoat back to bare fiberglass, a ton of these little âpocketsâ have shown up in the old layup directly under the gelcoat. Is filling them all with fairing compound during that process a reasonable solution or is there a better procedure? The more concerning issue is all of the hair line cracks that matched up with the cracks in the gelcoat. They are the lighter colored lines you see everywhere. (Literally thousands) There really isnât any discernible crack you can feel, it just somewhat scary considering the time invested in this hull so far. They are really only near the water line as well which is incidentally where the gelcoat is the thickest. Id have to check, but it seems like Cbass put a layer of cloth/mat(?) on the bottom of his for extra insurance against cracks? 
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Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 8:24am
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The second question is concerning this fine specimen of a trailer. The boat came with, but not on this cc trailer. The number on the id plate is 4-324 manufactured in 7/70. I understand the 3# to be the correct trailer for the boat, but is this trailer worth refurbishing in the mean time? It used to be home to a wildcat, which probably explains the po added structure. Thanks in advance! 
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Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 8:46am
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Take a few measurements of the bunks on that trailer and I'll compare it to my #3 and #4dv. I didn't think that there was such a thing as a non-dv #4, but that sure seems to be what we're looking at. The dv keeps the bunks parallel so as not to cross the strakes on a deep vee hull... This causes loading issues for a flat bottom boat. I would guess you're probably OK since these bunks clearly taper- but let's confirm. On a side note, I know of someone who would probably swap a #3 for that #4... So perhaps we should discuss! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 8:50am
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Ethan, Your picture doesn't show real large pockets in the original layup so I wouldn't be too worried. I'd suggest a coat or two of vinyl ester resin. It will get into the voids. You don't want to use an epoxy resin since the gel being polyester doesn't adhere well to epoxy. The alternate is epoxy first, vinyl ester second and then the gel. How fair did you get the hull? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 9:43am
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Tim, I'll take some measuments tonight. The 1975 brochure shows it listed, and one of the trailers in the picture looks similar, but it's hard to tell.. Seems like it's about 55" at the back of the bunks if I remember correctly. Pete, there are some definite voids that will have to be addressed, but mostly just those small bubbles. There's still a ton to do, but the tool of choice thus far has been a 36 grit pad on a 7" grinder. I grind carefully until the sandpaper just barely starts to "kiss" the glass, and then switch to a long board or in line sander depending on the contour. By and large everything is staying very smooth and fair. One issue is that there are certain places along the chine where the gelcoat ran down the mold and puddled. I'm just leaving these til later when plan I'll probably grind them out individually and fair them with the surrounding glass. I'm trying to spend more time at this stage, because it will probably save me time on the back end.. Is it imperative to take it to bare glass even where the old gelcoat is in good shape? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 9:52am
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Ethan, As long as the puddled gel at the chine is sound, I'd leave it fair and just go over it. There's plenty of glass behind it for strength. How much old gel is in good shape? I'd be inclined to remove it as well. The old gels aren't what they are today and I'd hate to see problems pop up later. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 10:56am
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Those little cracks that go through all the way down to the glass are likely to telegraph back through the new gel. You are going to need to cover them with some glass â I would probably go with a thin surfacing veil mat. I would consider vinylester for this layer, I know the layer is going to add time, cost and work but minimal comparted to what else you have done. That will also fill in the little voids to a reasonable extent. This needs to go under your fairing efforts. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 11:02am
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Ethan, Post a picture of the hair line cracks. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 11:31am
| Scroll up Pete. |
Posted By: C-Bass
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 11:47am
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Ethan, Your thread is giving me PTSD...all that grinding, all those cracks. When I had my boat upside down, I ground out the big cracks and tapered them outwards, then filled with thickened epoxy. Then I covered that with a thin layer of cloth. This was laid down with VE resin, then fairing compound over the top of that to fill the cloth print. I wrapped the cloth around the chine and up the side about a foot. This is where the big cracks were in my hull. I do have numerous cracks on the topside like you are seeing as well, and I plan on doing the same. As far as Pete's recommendation on using VE resin vs. epoxy, I feel unless you can get your working conditions in the upper 70's °F, then stick with epoxy. The VE resin did fine if there was some thickness to the layup, but when laying down real thin layers, it does not want to cure very well, at least in my experience. ------------- Craig 67 SN 73 SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6103" rel="nofollow - 99 Sport 85SN |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 12:33pm
What the H do you think I've been looking at??? I don't see any cracks! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 12:36pm
| I think Ethan is implying the Mat fibers themselves are the cracks, sort of like roving print through. |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 12:38pm
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It's all cracked - follows the pattern of the crazing in the gel - you can see them crossing the fibers ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 12:45pm
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Easiest way to tell if they are cracks is to wipe some solvent across the surface ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 12:47pm
| I believe I can see the cracks even on my phone... Try zooming in and using the bifocals Pete! |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 12:58pm
Can you use epoxy directly over the old polyester? And can you use a very thin (almost like a cpes ) mixture to really flow into all those tiny cracks before going any further with your cloth and fairing layers? |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 1:09pm
No problem in putting epoxy right over that poly, however I doubt you could really do much good trying to get it into those hairline cracks even at a cpes consistency. The cracks are there, even if you can get some epoxy into them you cant prep the two walls of the crack to be anything that would be solid to epoxy to. Because of the need to then switch to vinyl before the fairing and the gelling I wouldnât recommend it. Getting some glass fibers in tension over those cracks is the best solution. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 1:09pm
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For sure, epoxy sticks to everything. The trick will be converting back to something the gel will stick to (poly doesn't adhere well to epoxy). That would require some type of conversion coat (like vinylester). The other option would be to stick with vinyl or poly for the whole job so no conversion coat is necessary... But like Craig, I've found that working with vinyl and poly to be much less straightforward than epoxy. I believe skibum did a cpes layer over the cracked glass before fairing. Cpes followed by the mat joe mentioned would likely be a great way to make sure the cracks don't come back. |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 1:10pm
Everything I've seen, heard and read says You can use Epoxy over Poly but NOT the other way around. If you are going to gel over a repair you need to use Vinyl-E cause Gel does NOT like Epoxy resin. It'll stick but long term it doesn't work...Like me and Kim's Thinning the resin would work to fill the holes but then then it would run out unless your surface is horizontal... That's where Cab-o-sil comes into play. Still pure resin but thickens it.------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 1:12pm
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I wooden cabinet with a lightbulb on a thermostat to control your vinyl temp, and some heat lamps on your work surface would improve your vinylester experience. Epoxy is nice but IMHO it is best left for actual structural repairs and anything on the inside of the hull. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 1:34pm
Thank you gents, learning for the future. I never paid too much attention because I said I will never do another stringer or a re gel job and now I have both. 
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 1:42pm
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Well, Tim, even using the bottom of my progressive lenses, I still don't see cracks. Strands of glass are obvious but no cracks in them ether. Ethan, wipe some solvent across the area like Joe mentioned and take a picture. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=97636&campaign=email011816" rel="nofollow - Total Boat has a new reduced viscosity epoxy out. I'd give it a try and then the VE over it. If it didn't look like it penetrated or filled the holes, you could always add the layer of glass in the VE step. I wouldn't worry about dirt down in the old porous surface. Even if there is any, the resin will flow around it. Think about some of the fillers we use in resin. Talc is dirt!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: DrCC
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 1:51pm
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Unless the dirt is grease and oil. I'm still a firm believer in poly resin for a boat that was built entirely with poly resin. Don't see the point in messing with conversion layers. |
Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 11:43pm
Tim, here are the measurements on the trailer. I pulled two foot on center back from the hitch lock and the width is to the outside of the channels. Hopefully that makes sense because the drawing isnât exactly accurate.  This shows the difference between the bare fiberglass, gelcoat and the old antifouling(?) that a po applied. It was taken right after wiping it down with acetone, but I couldnât really notice a difference in the glass. Should there be an obvious difference if it they are cracks? Fwiw the hull has absolutely no cracks farther than a foot from the chine, and 99% of them are within six inches. The top is a different story, with tons of small cracks just like the bottom.. 
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Posted By: Eether
Date Posted: January-19-2016 at 12:01am
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This shows one of the places where gelcoat âpuddledâ. Since it is cracked like this everywhere else I assumed it should be taken down to bare glass as well. As far as the repairs go, if using vinylester as a conversion coat for the gel is an acceptable process I would much rather use epoxy. I have a good bit left over from the stringers and it would be nice to keep from getting involved with another system for repairs. However, I will NOT do this again so if dealing with poly in going to make the finish last longer/better than Iâll do it. Thanks for all the thoughts! 
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Posted By: ScottZ
Date Posted: January-19-2016 at 2:48am
The boat pictured here belongs to me. If you need any more pictures of it let me know. Morfoot got these 2 from me. ------------- Scott Zuelzke Lake Mitchell , AL 1984 Ski Nautique 1972 Skier |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: January-19-2016 at 7:06am
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It may be worth looking into this http://www.matrix-composites.co.uk/products/sicomin-epoxy-resin/gelcoat.html" rel="nofollow - Epoxy Gelcoat SG 715 if you are doing all the hull again, I have been mulling this over as another way to go, by just tip and roller on then sanding back and polish, would cost more but may be easy to use once you have prepped/repaired the hull. If we have it here in Europe it will be in the USA too, get a small amount and do a test area first.. Good luck with it. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-19-2016 at 7:36am
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Roger, I wonder how well it buffs out to a high gloss? I may be wrong but I've always thought you can't get the gloss out of epoxy. We'll put another project on your list of things to do! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-19-2016 at 7:48am
Now I see all the hairline cracks.  Ethan, Test a couple spots with the epoxy. Try it first undiluted to see how well it penetrates. If you can still see where the epoxy hasn't soaked in, thin it down and do a second spot. As mentioned by Joe, you can always go over the hull with some 6oz. cloth. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-19-2016 at 10:33am
Yes it does and I have pictures but it seems with the site acting up I cannot upload them. I'll try again later--- ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-19-2016 at 10:53am
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Again - on the cracks - there is no benefit that is going to be achieved by trying to join them together with some sort of penetrating epoxy. It will only penetrate the crack, then it will stick to the sides of the crack - which is an old brittle poly that not only cracked to begin with but also has now been exposed to years of additional weather to age them. I don't care about oil or dirt or what have you I know epoxy sticks to much but if you stick it to a surface that isn't any good what good will it do you? If one wanted to fill the cracks they would first have to rout them all out and then fill them - that is not reasonable. You are looking to leave it in place, you are looking to give the surface you are going to gel on something with some tensile strength along the surface because the gel is not reinforced and doesn't have much of its own. So you need to add a layer, it can be done with light cloth - which wets out easier and usually provides less additional weight but will leave a cloth pattern that adds to your fairing woahs. It can also be done with the product I mentioned earlier surfacing veil mat - which is intended for this application as it leaves a flatter surface than the cloth. You should not use any kind of matt in an application like this with epoxy as it doesn't dissolve the binders and makes it hard to get the mat to follow the contours of the hull. That's only one of the reasons you should use the vinylester. The other is that you would need to put a vinyl layer between anyway and you then would have to ensure that no where in the process had you faired down to the epoxy layer... its a total pia and will provide no benefit but additional risks and cost. Edit- You could use polyester resin as well however - not quite as strong a bond - and not as good a barrier layer for something that may end up underwater and it stretches more and is not as resistant to stress cracking . The only benefit to the poly in this case would be cost... to the point that many boats are made with poly with the exception of the outer layer which is made with vinylester - for the reasons discussed above. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: ScottZ
Date Posted: January-19-2016 at 11:30am
I am located in Central Alabama and you are welcome to look at mine. ------------- Scott Zuelzke Lake Mitchell , AL 1984 Ski Nautique 1972 Skier |