Bad Injector -- Now What?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34841
Printed Date: April-28-2024 at 12:36pm
Topic: Bad Injector -- Now What?
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Subject: Bad Injector -- Now What?
Date Posted: October-29-2014 at 12:29am
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I've done some on-line research and my initial findings are not encouraging for an inexpensive solution. 1994 CC SNOB with 5.8 PCM High Output. Pro-Tech ignition with throttle body fuel injection. (Not the GT-40). The boat was running rich at low RPMs and one of the fuel injectors looked to be spitting or dribbling. I removed the 4 injector cluster and took it to a recommended injection specialist. I got the bad news today that one of the injectors is, indeed, bad. Injectors are Holley 250R-123AA. On-line searches have not found any replacements, new or used. PCM's website has a parts manual that states: NLA - Use Retrofit Kit # RF201008. All searches turn up "out of stock". I've seen prices from $550 up to $975. I guess that one option is to use the retro carburetor and Mallory ignition kits from skidim.com That looks like $1,200 for the pair. Suggestions? JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Replies:
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: October-29-2014 at 1:20am
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No first hand experience but I think perhaps you can get https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/pro-jection_and_commander_950_service_parts/commander_950_service_parts/parts/534-169" rel="nofollow - this but then you might need 4 new injectors ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: October-29-2014 at 11:18am
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I am sure there is something that will cross in automotive world. GT-40 injectors are just mid 90s ford 460 spec injectors. Those are probably something similar to throttle body injected big block Chevy injectors. ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: October-29-2014 at 11:21am
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Something like this possibly, http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search/Fuel+Injector/02521/C0024.oap?year=1988&make=Chevrolet&model=C3500%2BPickup%2BRWD&vi=5001216" rel="nofollow - 454 Injector ------------- |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: October-29-2014 at 1:13pm
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I spoke with Holley today. They recommended PART# 534-169 which is an injector pod upgrade. https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/pro-jection_and_commander_950_service_parts/commander_950_service_parts/parts/534-169 This will allow for the new type injectors. Then they recommended PART# 522-43 which is the new 522-43 fuel injectors. All in is about $595. Here is the question: The new 522-43 injectors state: "60 PPH@12 PSI 85 PPH@21 PSI". What PPH do I need? What is the factory PSI pump pressure of the current system? Thanks for your responses. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: October-29-2014 at 1:28pm
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It's like 12-18 psi for factory setups. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-29-2014 at 1:41pm
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/pro-jection_and_commander_950_service_parts/commander_950_service_parts/parts/534-169" rel="nofollow - link to holley for Rob ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Jonny Quest wrote:Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: October-29-2014 at 5:42pm
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so you are running the protec FI...chances are that the ignition will die on you also, so I would retrofit it to the carb and mallory ignition now and avoid future problems... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: October-30-2014 at 1:26pm
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Looks like my options are limited. I can throw $600+ at the fuel injection today, but if the Pro-Tech ignition dies then I am back to square one. Time to Break Out Another Thousand. I'm going to retro-fit back to the Mallory electronic distributor and carburetor. A mechanic friend of mine recommends the Edelbrock marine carb (model 1409). His statement is that the Holley carb (model 4160) has an inherent problem with the float bowl bolted onto the side. He claims that they always leak after sitting for any length of time. Anybody had this problem with the Holley 4160? The Holley is what CC and PCM had on the 351 prior to the EFI attempt in 1994. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: October-30-2014 at 1:36pm
JQ - almost all of our boats have the 4160 from the factory, I think your friend has an Edelbrock bias  some folks here have tried the quick fuel carb, as it has the added feature of being able to make float adjustments from the outside of the bowl. I am in the same spot as you boat wise, my 94 TBI choked, but the protect is still working. I picked up a used 4160 when mine quit, and it bolted right up. When I do the distributor, I will be checking out the DUI similar to the one that JPass did a couple of months ago. check the FAQ sticky for a link  |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: October-30-2014 at 2:53pm
Its the same link I provided above... if you went that way you would want to pick up Delphi injectors from an automotive source to save yourself a couple bucks, they used to be around 80 a piece at the local autoparts stores perhaps you could do better looking around. I probably also wouldn't put any money into them unless you love how it performs. There is nothing wrong with the Holley, yes the bowls hang off the front and back with gaskets and screws to hold them together but the number of them I have seen leaking at those gaskets in a significant manner is zero. The ones I have seen that weep a bit have been apart many times without a new gasket ever being used. The edelbrock is cheaper, and relatively acceptable if you install it with a wedge so it sits level. Without a wedge it is hard to get to the point where it never drips and idles rich and also never leans out and pops on the top end. Haven't used a quick fuel yet but I probably would if I was in the market for something. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: October-31-2014 at 2:33am
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Thanks for the great suggestions. This is what I'm now strongly considering: Carb Conversion - kit from skidim.com with the Holley 4160. Ignition Conversion - Davis Unified Ignition Marine Performance D.U.I. Distributors M35820RD. JPass did a nice write up: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34338&title=protec-ignition-swap Looks like I've got my winter project. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: October-31-2014 at 3:06am
Dreaming: Thanks for the tip. I really didn't think about this being a 2-stage approach. I assumed that the EFI removal also required removing the Pro-Tech. Right now, my Pro-Tech seems to be working OK. I may just to the retro-fit carb change out now and wait for the electronics. Will I have to do anything special to the Pro-Tech when I take the EFI system off? JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-31-2014 at 8:53am
For the convenience of all, http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34338&title=protec-ignition-swap" rel="nofollow - here's a proper link ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: October-31-2014 at 5:34pm
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I took my tbi off, and added a mechanical fuel pump, carb and fuel line. I haven't finished the choke wiring or safeing off the rest of the sensors, but it does run without all the electrical stuff. when I get ready to do the DUI, I will probably need to order a wire harness from Ski-dim, unless I can figure it all out from JPASS's instructions. just an added note, you'll need a new spark arrestor as the carb/tbi have different opening sizes. good luck! |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: October-31-2014 at 5:54pm
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Wrrrronnnngggg answer. Throw that Edelbrock idea right out the window. Since you are buying new anyways spend your money on a good carburetor. Either a 351 spec 4160 Holley or the Quick Fuel if you want to tune and play more easily in the future. Or just save a few 100 bucks. ------------- |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: November-01-2014 at 12:08am
Roger that. I went with the Holley 4160 retro fit kit from skidim.com The Quick Fuel is very cool, just more ca$h. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-01-2014 at 10:01am
| The quick fuel is actually cheaper. |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: November-07-2014 at 1:37am
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Parts from skidim.com arrived today. Fuel pump is installed. Carb is installed. Should have fuel lines hooked up and and the complete retro fuel delivery system will be ready to go by late tonight. Just waiting for the Performance Distributor unit to arrive... JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: November-07-2014 at 10:17am
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Tim, he was probably looking at a QF double pumper I bet that's why he thought it was more money. ------------- |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: November-09-2014 at 1:38am
Yup. I was looking at the M-650. $617.00 ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |