176 ideal prop?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34672
Printed Date: May-07-2024 at 10:51pm
Topic: 176 ideal prop?
Posted By: Frankenotter
Subject: 176 ideal prop?
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 12:06pm
|
With the season coming to a close, I'm turning attention to the winter projects. I want to upgrade my prop (and possibly an ARE shaft) and want to get some opinions while I still have the boat in the water. Zack, Chris, and Joel (I think?).......you guys came and stole the prop off the 176 at Green Lake last year. One of you gave me a recommendation for an upgrade and I can't remember what it was. Here is what's on the boat currently  Are these numbers just from prop repair shops or do they mean something?   With this prop I'm getting 41mph at 4200rpm (GPS) with a completely empty boat. Stock 351 @ 240hp. I use it exclusively for slalom and barefoot. 3 blade? 4 blade? Looking for a good ACME recommendation. Cheers! Chris ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Replies:
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 12:07pm
|
Take the nut off the shaft, that's where the dai/pitch are marked ------------- Brian |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 12:19pm
|
Edit - that's why I shouldn't talk props... Tim would be the man to ask. ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 12:24pm
|
Noooooooo, definitely not a 540. All 176's had 1.23's. Pretty sure we verified you have a 13x17 on there. You'd benefit quite a bit by getting the revs up to 4600. I bet an acme 422 would get you pretty close. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 12:28pm
|
Chris, I put a 668 on a 240 horse 17'6" this last fall and it turned it 4600-4700 rpms, I was impressed. A 422 would be just fine as well. 668 is a 422 with a little more cup commonly used on the 6.0 196 boats. The owner uses it on a private slalom lake and loves the prop. Either of the two would be a good pick for your rig but I do have some discounted old stock 668s if you are interested. ------------- |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 12:40pm
|
Chris, I have a spare 422 somewhere and I also have a 422 on the 206, either of which you are welcome to try out. Weather looks great this week if you want to drop by and give it a try. We could pull the BU off the other lift and put the 176 on it to make the swap. |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 12:47pm
Whoops. ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 1:03pm
|
CQ, we can definitely make that happen. What time do you get back from work on the weekdays? Thursday might work. I have a wedding on Friday. Zach, I might take you up on the 668. If nothing else just to have as a spare. Looks like the answer is 4 blades across the board? ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 1:12pm
|
Could have sworn you had a 13x17 around at GL... Maybe a spare? If you're only pulling the 14x16 4200 then I'd go 422 or even slightly smaller... 1442 or 470. I'm not sure how that freak 176 Zach had was pulling a 668 4600+ with only 240hp, that's really really strong. I do have a used/reworked 668 I'd sell cheap if you want to go that direction though. The name of the game is matching size (mostly pitch, followed by cup, then diam) to proper wot rpm. Blade count is a secondary concern, both 3's and 4's are very good. Acme doesn't make any 3-blades in the 15.5-16" pitch range, so that will dictate your choices somewhat. If going with a a 15" prop, the best ones are 3-blades. |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 1:23pm
|
Thursday is fine, I am typically home by 5:30, you can come by anytime though, just let me know so I can leave the launch key or whatever. Timmy will chime in I'm sure but there is a 3 blade option, don't recall the model, supposedly will give maybe +1mph over the 422 and some say change the wake/table slightly |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 1:24pm
And collecting oil and toxic waste out of the Milwaukee River... ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Frankenotter wrote:Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 1:29pm
CQ, I am pretty sure you are thinking of the 1442 - that is what I noticed when I switched from the 422, plus 1 mph. I was also pretty surprised at the change in rooster tail, seem to get a lot smaller, but at the cost of a lot more turbulent bubbles back in where you foot. I think I would stick with the 422 for footing, even though it is a little slower, and go with the 1442 for slalom, especially shortline. Of course why would anyone try to ski the course shortline behind my barge... ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 1:35pm
|
Wake should not change based on blade count, I'm not sure I buy a table/turbulence difference either. The latter can be impacted (along with rooster firmness) by props that run different rpm at a given speed (higher rpm = firmer/harsher), but blade count shouldn't factor in much. Props of different style (Oj vs acme, for instance) may cause changes to boat attitude depending on how much stern lift they generate (which in turn plants the nose, distributing the boats weight over a larger surface and makin the wake slightly smaller- at the expense of top end speed), but all of the acmes we are discussing are similar in design and shouldn't change the boats attitude in a measurable way. Like I said above, there is no 3-blade equivalent to the 422 or 668, only ones that have (incrementally) less pitch. I would not choose a prop based on blade count unless all else were equal- in which case I generally prefer 3-blades on our lighter direct drives. Matching pitch to wot is a more important consideration though, IMHO. |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 1:38pm
|
Tim I think the prop you remember from GL was my spare 4 blade OJ 12 17. I've never used it. Lets make it happen Quinner. Ill plan on heading down by you in the afternoon and maybe we can get a few runs in? Steve, are we still on for Thursday? EDIT ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 1:42pm
| Chris, what's on the boat now- a 3-blade or 4-blade? Confirm the dimensions on your spare- if be amazed if it only has 14" of pitch. $5 says it had 17", can't recall if it's 12" or 13" diam... But that would have been the original prop on a 176, not the 14x16- at least based on what I've been able to gather. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 1:43pm
|
Like I said I was very impressed with that 17'6". By feel I guess it was moving along at 45+. I vote give CQ a visit and run a 422 for testing purposes. Who knows if the prop on your boat is healthy or not. Have to checked total timing advance? The 17'6" with the 668 was fresh off of a carburetor tune and a timing setting. I think I dialed it in around 32-34 degrees which is my typical all in I go with on a stocker. It wasn't running to well and required a long warm up before it could operate so I checked it all and set it to my preference IE timing/idle screws/new choke spring installed. I agree with Tim's memory in that you had a 13x17 at GL which I think I confirmed with CC was the factory offering on a 17'6" but my memory could be getting foggy. ------------- |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 1:47pm
Sounds like you got a plan, my need was to just waste some time, you go take care of your stuff! I'd ride along with you, but the boss will have my head if she comes back from work and I am out playing with boats, and trust me, it won't take much to take the head off with the headstart I have given it... ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 1:56pm
Sorry, that was a typo. The prop I posted pictures of here is what I've always had on the boat. The spare at GL was an OJ 12x17 4 blade. ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: IAughtNaut
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 1:57pm
 ------------- bring the ruckus http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5347" rel="nofollow - 2000 Pro Air |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 2:00pm
I haven't check the timing since I bought it. It has been running really smooth since rebuilding the carb last year, but I think its time for a timing check. The hole shot has been noticeably slower this year. ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 2:04pm
|
Gotta make sure she's making full power. I was just up on lake Nagawika this weekend. I should have given you a heads up. ------------- |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 2:23pm
|
You were here and you didn't call? Can somebody tell Zach I'm not speaking to him ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 2:24pm
 I had to do official wedding things all Thursday and Friday. ------------- |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 2:31pm
|
................................ ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 3:10pm
 ------------- |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 3:21pm
| Me Either!! |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 3:23pm
 ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: September-23-2014 at 7:36pm
If it makes you guy's feel any better,I was in Indy on the 6th  maybe he came up to get even with me---------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: skierox
Date Posted: September-24-2014 at 12:08am
|
I have a 1996 Ski 176. I switched from a three blade to a four blade this summer. This is my first season with the boat. It seemed to me that top end is around 45.I can look at what prop is on the boat. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=4101 - Former Owner of 89 Nautique /diaries/details.asp?ID=4100 - My 05 Nautique /diaries/details.asp?ID=4099 - My 99 Nautique |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: September-25-2014 at 12:50am
|
Please do. Also, if you get a chance, can you confirm top speed with a GPS? ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: September-25-2014 at 10:04am
|
Gary! How dare you! ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: September-25-2014 at 11:30am
|
I tried Zack,we came in kinda last minute for a funeral Saturday and left Sunday morning :( ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: September-25-2014 at 9:52pm
|
Today Steve loaned me his 422 and I took her for a test run after timing it last night. We got 4700 RPM at 43mph. That speed was measured on a cell phone app and I had to back the throttle down after a few seconds (rollers on Lake Michigan). I think this is the sweet spot of the boat that Zach was referring to. I noticed a reduction in vibration and now I just have to ski it to check the hole shot. I think I have to adjust the carb now after changing the timing, but I'll post more stats when I get them. Cheers! Chris ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-25-2014 at 10:20pm
| Get yourself a real GPS (or at least download the navionics app) and hold the throttle down a little longer. A 400rpm differential seems a little on the high side for a 176. If you're really pulling the 422 at 4700-4800, then you might want a 668 after all... I'm surprised the revs are so different from the 14x16. Ideally, you really want to turn 4600 or just below. |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: September-25-2014 at 10:41pm
|
That Navionics App is cool! Not 100% sure the tach is correct. It was my fault we had to shut it down. I should not have gone along. I told him to drop me off and make some passes on his own, but he would having nothing of it. He'll get some better data on a flat inland lake and I won't be with him. I also think that 14x16 is a VERY tired prop. I also offered up my 1442, we just have to get it off the Sport. AND I will give him one of my portable GPS's (which I forgot to take with us this trip). ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-26-2014 at 11:07am
wat
------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-26-2014 at 11:50am
|
I know you're just busting chops, but I'll bite. Taken out of context... I always recommend spinning the engine at max rated rpm (generally where it makes peak power) at a minimum, preferably exceeding it by 100-200rpm. For a 240hp PCM, the max recommended rpm is 4400, so 4400-4600 is the window, with 4500-4600 being the ultimate goal. You won't hurt anything spinning it at 4700-4800 but if there's a good prop out there that can knock the revs back to the range i just stated, you can gain a little bit of performance as well as some efficiency. I say "spin it to win it" to those afraid to exceed max recommended rpm for fear of "breaking things" or some such nonsense. Over propping to keep revs below max rpm is detrimental to both performance AND reliability as putting a large prop that loads down the engine is harder on components than over revving (slightly). |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-26-2014 at 11:55am
|
Steve, the 1442 will turn 200rpm higher than the 422 so it would be going in the wrong direction. All of the "tired" props I've seen tend to lose efficiency at higher revs, meaning they allow rpm to climb higher without speed going up, presumably due to blade flex or some other issue. By holding rpm down at 4200 makes me think it's towards the steep (pitch) range of its tolerance and keeping the engine from reaching optimal rpm but I wouldn't call it tired. Just an older design that less precise and not a great performer. |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: September-26-2014 at 11:59am
|
Tim as always, you are 100% correct, but that old prop needs some time with a couple of hammers and some heat, it is pretty "out of shapes." I agree with the assessment of the 1442, but we thought it would be fun to throw it on their just for chits and giggles. ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: September-28-2014 at 7:33am
|
Thanks Tim. I think I'll bring the Rpm a back down a little. I think with a new prop and a little carb tuning it will be a 45mph boat. For a little guy with a 240hp and over 1000 hr that's not bad. ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |