Fuel Pump?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33273
Printed Date: May-03-2024 at 3:01am
Topic: Fuel Pump?
Posted By: Butter77
Subject: Fuel Pump?
Date Posted: April-06-2014 at 11:42am
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Went out on Friday after replacing the transfer tube in the carb with the new style and pumping out all the old gas with new stuff. It was extremely hard starting and idled like a big block with a huge cam in it. Took the plugs out and they were fouled beyond belief. Replaced the powervalve and spark plugs yesterday morning, and solved that issue. However, still have a miss in the engine up to 3k. After running over 3k for about 5-10 seconds, I'll get a popping through the carb and the engine will die out not long after the secondaries open up. It won't run right until I go back to idle for a few seconds. The miss in the lower rpm seemed to get worse the longer we were out. Does this sound like a fuel pump? The pickup and siphon valve are clear, so no obstruction, and the secondary metering plate is clear. I'm about at my wits end trying to figure this out. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7270&sort=&pagenum=1/" rel="nofollow - 1989 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Replies:
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-06-2014 at 12:09pm
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Maybe the ignition system needs attention too .. . ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Butter77
Date Posted: April-06-2014 at 12:12pm
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EI module, rotor, cap, coil, ballast resistor all new start of season. Only plug wires haven't been changed yet. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7270&sort=&pagenum=1/" rel="nofollow - 1989 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: April-06-2014 at 12:36pm
| Idled like a big block with a huge cam?So what's problem ? Only kidding had a similar problem years ago turned out to be ballast putting too much voltage to coil causing same high rpm missfire/crossfire. |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: April-06-2014 at 8:21pm
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mis and skip up to 3 k rpms sounds like primary issues in the carb. maybe something blocked ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-07-2014 at 9:40am
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The speed specific popping and die-out make me wonder about initial timing and then advance. As for the fuel pump question, only way to know for sure is put a fuel gauge on it. So I'd say check fuel pressure first to rule that out, then put a timing light on it. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: April-07-2014 at 10:57am
Did you time it after the new EI module? ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Butter77 wrote:Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-07-2014 at 11:26am
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+1 ^^ ------------- |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-07-2014 at 11:37am
Hey Zach, +1 what? +1 degree btc initial? +1 psi fuel pressure? +1 quart of oil? You've got to be more specific. (J/K !!!) Matt, nice looking boat! I read the diary entry and maybe your stereo is just sucking all the power out of the engine! That's 3 of us pointing toward timing, maybe get a light on it and start there. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-07-2014 at 11:53am
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Ha, I was pointing at Eddie. ------------- |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: April-07-2014 at 8:03pm
| What's the new style transfer tube mean? |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: April-07-2014 at 8:14pm
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I still say carb.. ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-07-2014 at 8:31pm
Thats the tube that goes between the primary and secondary bowl. The old ones had a crimp on each end to seat the o rings that sealed the tube to the bowl. The new ones are shorter and use a special seal like a top hat with a hole in the top ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: April-07-2014 at 8:39pm
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Thanks Gary. Are the new tubes backwards compatible with the older carbs? That tube couldn't be part of the problem then, could it? |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-07-2014 at 8:55pm
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Yes they are,you could not even get the old style for quite some time now. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Butter77
Date Posted: April-07-2014 at 10:22pm
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I never did check the timing after replacing the EI module. Sounds like I need to hook the hose up to it tomorrow and check that. Anyone have a list of what they used to set up a fuel pressure gauge? I have the metal line still, so I'll need to fab up something and put an order in to Summit to get a couple things probably. From what I'm thinking, wouldn't it just be better to go ahead and put a new fuel pump on it then spend $20,$30, or $40 on making a fuel line to check the fuel pressure? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7270&sort=&pagenum=1/" rel="nofollow - 1989 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: April-08-2014 at 10:00pm
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If you never set the timing after the EI install the timing is going to be way off. The fuel pump has nothing to do with that so why replace it? ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-08-2014 at 10:13pm
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Matt, The fuel pump will have NTP threads in the body. Why go to Summit when a trip to the hardware store will work. A tee and a nipple will do the job. Yes, you will need to bend the hard line at the pump some to make it work but not by much. I agree with Eddie - why not test first before throwing money at something you THINK is wrong! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 1:29am
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Pete (or anyone), what do you like/use for thread sealant on fuel lines? ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 6:40am
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Brass to brass or brass to die cast being both soft materials really don't need a thread sealant however, I do use a small wrap of Teflon tape. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 11:24am
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I've had good luck with brass to brass for water, but have had a few fuel drips so prefer to use sealant. I used some pipe sealant but a friend told me not to, that it wasn't suited for fuel and you don't want to risk any seeping past the threads when you tighten. Tape sounds good to me, didn't realize it was OK for fuel. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 7:25pm
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I still have a few of the old tubes floating around Gary. It seems a little easier to get those in without boogering up the seal vs. the new hat style seals that will slide off to the side of the tube sometimes. that's just my .02. ------------- |
Posted By: Butter77
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 9:56pm
 Geeze Louise...do I feel like a shmuck.....Hooked up the boat to the old recycle bin filled with water and started it up. Put the timing light to it and BAM.....I'm pretty sure you could hear the foul language out of my mouth for a mile away....While the light was blinking well short of the timing marks, I would guestimate about 40-45 BTDC. How was it even running there? Reset it to 10 degrees and locked down. Restarted several times to make sure it didnt' move. Got the engine to rev to 3200 (more like JUMP, never done that before so easily, even with no load) and saw about 26 on the timing. Is 16 degrees advance enough? Tried to do some quick looking on the phone but couldn't come up with an answer right away. Does this also explain cutting out after the secondaries opened up, since the timing was probably around 55-60 BTDC?Side note on the new style transfer tube- I put the tube into the seals first, then put vasoline on the outer surfaces of the seals. Put one end into the primary bowl that was still on the carb, and the other end went in without a hitch when the secondary bowl was put on. That was LOADS easier then messing with those dang o-rings. I could never get them to seal right no matter what I tried. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7270&sort=&pagenum=1/" rel="nofollow - 1989 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 10:49pm
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I was wrong again....... ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 10:58pm
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Eddie gets a gold star! Zach, CQ will give you a hand shandy. Always check ignition before messing with the carb. Anytime you go deeper into the dizzy than the rotor, you MUST retime! 16 deg of advance is on the shy side, but not uncommon for a stock engine. Try 12-14 of initial and see how it likes it. If it starts nice and runs a little better, I'd leave it. 34-36 total would be ideal but you usually aren't giving up much performance so long as you're getting 30-32. |
Posted By: Butter77
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 11:07pm
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Where would I expect to see the 30's on the timing? 3500? 4000? I wasn't much interested to go past 3200 on the bucket, but I guess that would be easier then at speed trying to watch the light. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7270&sort=&pagenum=1/" rel="nofollow - 1989 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 11:55pm
| It should be all in by 3k but check that too. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-10-2014 at 1:04am
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My original Prestolite similarly had 18 deg of advance, & it didn't get there until about 4K. I had my upgrade dizzy tuned at a shop to give 23 deg advance, all in at 3K like Tim said. It has not given me any trouble. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-10-2014 at 11:39am
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My NOS presto seems a little lazy on the all in rpm. I think if I remember it's around 3800. My boat is set at 32 total. With more initial they start a little easier and don't feel as lazy going into gear at idle. That's all Eddie, I just agreed after the fact ha. I was going to play around 32 and 36 total but my timing light took a *************** at the end of the season last year. ------------- |
Posted By: Butter77
Date Posted: April-12-2014 at 9:25pm
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UPDATE: Well that helped! Above 3000 it runs like a fat kid chasing a cupcake (I can say that because most of the time I'm the fat kid). Below 3000 it didn't want to run hardly at all. I adjusted the accelerator pump and idle mixture screws to get that all sorted out and the timing set at 14 degree initial. By the end of the day it was running as well as ever. Then trouble....Running around 3500 back to the dock for about a minute when it just cut out. No trying to save it, the thing just died. Turned everything off for about 10 seconds, and then took a good solid 15 seconds of turning over and pumping the throttle to get it going. Got back up to 3000 to get back to the dock and cut out 10 seconds later. Did this 2 more times. It would idle fine at the dock, and started back up just fine to put on the trailer. I was thinking we ran out of fuel, but still had 10-11 gallons in the tank. I'll check the pickup, anti siphon, and fuel filter tomorrow to see if anything was picked up. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7270&sort=&pagenum=1/" rel="nofollow - 1989 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-12-2014 at 10:12pm
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Is the cut out quick and like a complete shut-off? Fuel cut-out problems don't usually act like turning the key off, they usually will sputter, surge, recover a bit before dying. So, I'd look at electrical and ignition still. Check your kill switch, ignition switch, look at anything that could be intermittent and take it from there. I'm not saying it can't be fuel, but still sounds electrical to me. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-12-2014 at 10:22pm
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Could be coil. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: April-12-2014 at 10:23pm
| Check tank vent some critter might have built something in there over the winter. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-12-2014 at 10:32pm
I agree. With the quick cut out, get the VOM out. I suggest a good look at the ignition key switch. Get the VOM hooked up and wiggle/turn the key. I also suggest measuring voltage out of it as well as resistance across it's contacts. (B and I terminal) It should be a near zero reading. Then, get volts at the ballast resistor going in and out. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Butter77
Date Posted: April-13-2014 at 12:29am
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Let me rephrase, it was like running out of fuel pressure cut off. It had the stumble, lose power, drop RPM, surge, then cut off. If you tried taking it back to idle, it would just cut off completely. However, restarting and letting it idle was fine when we got back to the dock. I'll also check the fuel vent for any blockages. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7270&sort=&pagenum=1/" rel="nofollow - 1989 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: April-13-2014 at 10:15am
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Starts good at first then looses power/runs out of gas? Tank vent.It's real easy to check. When it happens open the gas cap and start it if that works a dirt dobber (wasp) built a home in the vent. Long time ago I had an old dodge panel truck as I threw money at it I put on a locking gas cap that wasn't vented. Ran fine for 10mi or so then ran out of gas. NO power but idled fine. I thew the kitchen sink at it. Then it happened again a friend took the gas cap off and the tank popped back into shape. That old slant 6 really pulled a vacuum! ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-13-2014 at 10:55am
| I'd bet money on the anti siphon valve being plugged, but also check the inlet screen at the carb and the fuel filter, if applicable. |
Posted By: Butter77
Date Posted: April-13-2014 at 11:51pm
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Went to take the pickup tube out today and only the 90 degree fitting at the tank came out. Isn't the pickup tube supposed to be attached? There was some more junk in the anit siphon, but not enough to block any flow. Engine fired right up in the driveway with a full tank of fuel. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7270&sort=&pagenum=1/" rel="nofollow - 1989 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: April-14-2014 at 1:04am
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31482&title=fuel-tank-dip-tube-broken" rel="nofollow - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31482&title=fuel-tank-dip-tube-broken The above link gets into how the dip tubes are set up, but for a fuel injected boat. Hopefully there's still some useful info there though. |