How do I get these off?
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29308
Printed Date: May-20-2024 at 3:27am
Topic: How do I get these off?
Posted By: Frankenotter
Subject: How do I get these off?
Date Posted: March-24-2013 at 1:28pm
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Well, its manifold time and I have a HUGE concern. My port side manifold is sooooo corroded that there is nothing left of the bolt heads. I'm planning on grinding the heads off, pulling the manifold off, and then seeing if there is enough left of the bolt to get a vice grip on to slowly back it out. If the shaft of the bolt breaks I think I'm screwed. I've been hitting them with penetrating oil for about a week now and someone suggested heating the area around the bolt with a torch, but that doesn't seem like it would be good for the head. I'm all ears to suggestions on all or part of this job.  Chris   ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Replies:
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: March-24-2013 at 1:34pm
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What do I do if the worst case scenario happens and the bolt dreaks off in the head? ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-24-2013 at 1:57pm
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How's about chopping the head off with a small cutting blade on a dremmel then using vice grips to get it out? Failing that, welding a hex bit to the bolt? Or using a small Irwin easy-out? ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: March-24-2013 at 2:08pm
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A cut off wheel will work. Cut the head off or cut an "X" in the head down to the shank. and use a chisel. Soak them in penatrating oil the best is 1/2 Trans fluid and 1/2 acetone, easy to make yourself. And keep soaking them. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: March-24-2013 at 2:08pm
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Resist all urges to use an easy out. If you have a mig welder weld a nut on to what you have first and see if you can get them out.The heat from welding will help break the rust.If that don't work grind the head off remove the manifold and then weld a nut on. Replace with stainless and use anti seize. Some may come out with a vice grip but be careful not to mess them up so much that you cannot weld a nut on. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-24-2013 at 2:16pm
I agree, but I wouldn't be afraid of cutting them off with the cut off in a Dremel. You will them get a better shot at getting the penetrating where it should go. The problem with a "easy out", is the soc. hd. cap screws are grade 9 and very hard. They are tough to drill even with carbide bits and an easy out won't grab. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Gary S wrote:Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-24-2013 at 2:21pm
| I just cut off 4 of those, cut off wheel on a die grinder and some paitence is all it takes. If you don't want the manifolds it a little easier, it's hard not to saw into them a little. I also broke the spark plugs off on purpose to keep the motor sealed while I worked, pipe plugs would work for that too. I didn't remove the bolts from the heads, but I got a ground off head bolt out of the block and anothe out of the exhaust manifold. I used acetone and ATF on both and let them sit for at least a day. They hardly put up a fight when I got around to taking them out. If you have a welder you can tack a nut on them to make it even easier. |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: March-24-2013 at 2:32pm
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Hit the bolts fairly hard with a ball peen hammer. The scale rust will jump off and help loosen the bolts. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: March-24-2013 at 3:29pm
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Good info gents. I'm going by the boat one more time today on my way to work and ill hit it with the ATF mix. I've been warned my several people already not to attempt an easy out due to bolt hardness. Ill see if I can get my welding dude to tack a nut on. Next weekend will be d-day for this project. Chris ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: March-24-2013 at 6:46pm
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take the heads of the bolts off pry the manifolds off, weld nuts on where you can hit the studs with a hammer, i have to say i have been using a new product i always used pb blaster but now i heat the studs , and when cool i have been using crc freeze off , whatever it is it acts like freon and penetrating oil all at once ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 12:24am
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Well the bolts have been soaking in oil all week so I came back to them today for a test. It didn't go well. All I've done so far is the riser bolts (haven't even touched the manifold bolts which are in 10X worse shape). Broke 3/4 after using ATF/Acetone mix and sitting for 4 days. These don't matter because the lowers are garbage anyway but it makes me nervous for the big show.   ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 12:34am
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Those manifolds don't look too bad, your probably going to have to tak a nut on them since they're so short. On the heads you should have much more to work with, but since you're going to tak some of them you might as well do all of them. Another round of ATF/Acetone won't make it any harder. |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 2:34am
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The risers are in great shape but the lowers are cracked due to winterization from the PO. I will be trying the welding technique for sure. I've also been reading a ton of info on ford sites about the miracles of PB Blaster. Anyone want to chime in on the ATF/Acetone vs. PB Blaster oils???? ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 2:55am
| I'm sure someone will post the test, PB Blaster is about dead even with WD40. ATF/Acetone blows everything away by a good margin. It's quite flammable and I would guess that my safety people would frown on it with no MSDS, but I know quite a few machinists that keep a bottle around for the difficult stuff. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 8:18am
Evidently the Ford guys on those sites fall for "Madison avenue marketing" BS and they shop at HD!!  If you fail at getting them out, a machine shop with an EDM can burn them out. It may be cheaper than a new set of manifolds and risers. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 9:13am
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I think we have established that the manifolds are beyond saving for other reasons. He is concerned about the heads. Personally, id do my best on them but would know in the back of my mind that new gt40p heads would bolt on 45hp for $450... So if things go south that's not all bad news. ------------- |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 11:29am
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the way i weld nuts on is . grind the top of the old bolt head put the new nut on and weld the hole , if you have the option on say a 3/8 manifold bolt i try to use a 7/16 or even a 1/2 " nut over it you have more hole to weld. if you have difficulty getting the nut to stick try and die grind a slot into the top of the bolt so the weld will get into that . ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 12:22pm
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Well if it comes down to it, I've got a set of heads that I pulled off my boat during the GT40p head swap. They're in good shape and just sitting on my shelf taking up room so I'd let them go pretty cheap. Shipping isn't cheap though... ------------- |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 5:24pm
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i have a pristine set of 428 cj heads from my old jet drive, i bet you could find a bb ford short block to fit in there ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 7:00pm
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Now that is project scope creep! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Dank
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 7:24pm
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So maybe someone has already asked, but if the manifolds are cracked due to the PO no winterizing the boat...how do you know they drained the block? Maybe I can learn something :) ------------- "I don't know what the world may need, but a http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=886&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - V8 engine's a good start for me" |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 9:20pm
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I went & viewed the boat. I verified (by taking block drain plugs out) that block was drained. The PO was not mechanically inclined & did not know that there were other things to drain too. The engine also turned-over via breaker bar. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Dank
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 9:28pm
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got ya...just caught my attention and I hadn't seen anyone else ask :) ------------- "I don't know what the world may need, but a http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=886&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - V8 engine's a good start for me" |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 9:32pm
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The engine has an abnormal amount of external corrosion. It must have been put away wet repeatedly. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 11:33pm
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Well the day has arrived. I hacked into the manifolds today with mixed results. The good news ----- 15 out of 16 bolts came out!!!! The bad news ----- 15 out of 16 bolts came out..... All of the bolts forward of the Aft-most cylinders came off really nice after being soaked in ATF/Acetone for a week. The two most aft cylinder bolts (both port and starboard sides), however, were too far gone to get an allen head in. I started by taking a cutting head on the dremmel and little by little removing the head of the bolts until I could make out the gap between them and the manifold.   The manifold popped right off exposing my two stems.   I took a chance and put a shot of oil and a vice grip on the first one and it literally spun right out.  The same was not true of the other. As I put a vice grip on it, the threads fell apart and I was too afraid to try again. You can see it in the picture above just above my finger. I guess my last attempt at getting this one off is going to be the welding method. I hit it with ATF/Acetone about 10 more times before I left today in hopes that it will be ready next weekend when I come back to it. On the starboard side I was not as gentle because the bolts were in much better shape. Here I used a pneumatic cutting wheel and went to town.  When I got the manifold off, I put a vice grip on the stem and they came right out nice and easy. So.....literally one bolt lays between me and boating season (in theory). Until it comes out my nerves will be shot for the next week or so. ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: March-29-2013 at 11:37pm
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Oh.....and before anyone yells at me....... Those are sacrificial spark plugs in the hole to block little bits from entering the cylinder. Chris ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-30-2013 at 12:58am
| You"re doing good you've only got one left and you haven't resorted to the real serious stuff yet. Weld a nut on and I bet the last one will pop out easy. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-30-2013 at 1:02am
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If you can't get a welder, a micro-torch that would heat that shank easy. I would use some flashing to shield the other surfaces from the flame. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: March-30-2013 at 2:25am
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Chris and Chris, was this boat on Delhi? I remember one similar on a lift up there. ------------- |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: March-30-2013 at 5:21am
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Is it just me or is almost everyone on this site named Chris? Yes Chris, this was a lake Delhi boat. Bought it from an older couple that were moving and kids were all gone from the area. I know they did have it on a lift as well until the dam broke. Like Chris said, really nice folks, they just did nothing for upkeep on the boat. It's been and interesting road getting this little hot rod back in shape. Chris. ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: March-30-2013 at 11:33am
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that bolt will come out just make sure you do the left right left rotation to start ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: March-30-2013 at 3:38pm
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maybe you don't care about your carpet but I would have something covering your carpet like old carpet scraps or towels or something. ------------- This is the life |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: March-31-2013 at 1:03am
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You're right Andy. I thought about the carpet a little too late and realized my mistake after it was covered in corrosion. I'm dissapointed with myself for being stupid about it, however, I've had great success cleaning marine carpet n the past that was much older and worse off than mine. It is more work though. ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: March-31-2013 at 3:40pm
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You could always try cutting a slot in the bolt then and using a flathead screwdriver to turn them out. I've had that work several times for me. If you have one of those nifty impact screwdriver attachments those work wonders. I had 2 stuck(after using penetrating oil, I prefer Mopar) on the most recent manifold replacement and I gave them each 3 good whacks with a sledge and a cold punch and they then spun right out. Usually its just a matter of shattering the rust bonds in the threads. ------------- '94SN Restoration underway... |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-03-2013 at 1:21am
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SCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Today I met with my welding guy and we tacked a nut onto the stud. I let it cure a little and gave it another shot of oil for good measure. One turn of the wrench and it broke free!!!!! That just saved me a ton of time, money, and work. Now I'm just waiting for my new manifolds to arrive and this little boat will be up and running within a week. I took pictures of the process but my camera is acting up and it's unable to download to my PC right now. I'll post them as soon as I can for anyone in this predicament in the future. Chris ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-03-2013 at 1:58am
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Where are you going for your shakedown cruise? ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-03-2013 at 2:05am
 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-03-2013 at 12:28pm
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I'm sorry I didn't mention this earlier but if you got the threads clean enough to spin a nut on, you just put on 2 and then loosen the further one down the bolt. Hold the second nut acts tight with a second wrench and it acts as a jam. No welding needed. Anyway, glad to hear you got it worked out. ------------- |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-03-2013 at 12:39pm
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HW I though of that as well but the threads corroded off. The first time I put a vice grip on the stud the outer wall turned to dust. Same results with a pipe wrench. Chris ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-03-2013 at 1:10pm
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Here are the pictures. The sacrificial nut pre-weld.  I didn't realize until I got the photo on my computer that the bolt was out of focus. However, you can still see the threads that were inside the head are still intact. Only the hex head and section inside the manifold were bad. I checked the threads inside the head and they still look clean. I sprayed them down with oil as a precaution.  This was the source of all my trouble for the last few weeks. I'm going to frame it and display on my coffee table.  ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |