Another 1980 Stringer
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26170
Printed Date: May-05-2024 at 7:40am
Topic: Another 1980 Stringer
Posted By: ski-guy
Subject: Another 1980 Stringer
Date Posted: May-27-2012 at 9:45pm
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I am finally getting to the point where I need to start taking the stringers out, or patching them up. So far I don't see too much rot, just the top of the starboard side where one of the floorboards was rotted and the rot went into both the primary and secondary stringers. I will drill some holes in the next day or two to see if there is rot or not. I have read most the stringer posts and it doesn't seem that anyone has just patched up what's there - so I assume the consensus is since the floor is out one might as well do the whole thing anyway? ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Replies:
Posted By: politicallycorrect
Date Posted: May-28-2012 at 10:03pm
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You get the foam out and you're halfway there! Post some pics and I'm sure those in the know will be glad to help out. Scott ------------- Skin grows back...fiberglass doesn't!! |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: May-29-2012 at 2:03am
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Picked up a hole saw for the drill today but too late tonight and on the road for the next couple days. The front of the primary stringers quite visible (not a lot of fibreglass) - hard to see but the starboard side has some rot near the front end where the last floor board sat.  here the secondary stringer looks like it just came from the mill....  but farther forward it is 'weathered' but still appears competant,  I'll see what the holes reveal later this week. ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: May-30-2012 at 11:40pm
Okay, drilled a few holes tonight and the wood is solid at least. However, the primary stringers sure took a lon time to drill trhough with a brand new saw.  The `core`is solid - but it is damp and the saw dust was damp and `soggy` so I guess it is time to get to work and simply replace them. Also, the existing fibreglass even though it seems to be attached to the primary stringer, when I drill it came off immeditely. Is that a polyester thing - my limited experience with epoxy says it will penetrate and bond and never seperate like that. I talked to USComposites today and Steve there is recommending biax tape (6 and 12 inch) for the stringers and biax cloth - two layers - for the floor over 4 lb foam. From other posts this seems a bit less than others have done - he indicated 2 lb foam would compress under a foot and certainly whatever I removed was solid even after the fibreglass came out. Any comments would be welcome. Interestingly US Composites seems way less money than anything I can find here, even after a couple hundred dollars shipping. ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: May-30-2012 at 11:42pm
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Also - the diamond blade on the grinder seems to be the way to go to remove the stringers based on other posts - any suggestions appreciated as this part is getting scary to me. ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-31-2012 at 1:34am
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I have tried others and yes US Composites seems to have the best price and ships fast. As to the epoxy sticking better your right but you should also CPES them 1st and it will stick even better. http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/cpes.html" rel="nofollow - Here is a link that some great info. I have been buying direct from them but I understand some places may have it cheaper at times. One other thing about the job you'll do is that you'll take the time to do a better job than the factory could ever do. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: May-31-2012 at 12:25pm
Those suggested glass schedules are VERY light... I would do some reading up on the stringer rebuilds shared on this site and come up with a proper glass schedule, and then base your material list off of that. US Composites has great materials at great prices, but their tech support is very hit or miss, it seems. This is one case where I would give them a big  .------------- |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: May-31-2012 at 12:55pm
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Thanks - I have read most of the other posts (including yours TRBenj) and do have lists from others - US Composites suggeted maybe some make it more difficult than needed? I like the Biax though so will plan to add additional layers of cloth for the stringers and also for the floor - probably along with some mat. I figure I will simply build it up until I have the thickness I'm starting with. Cloth at least is easy to get locally. I am also starting with the 10 gal kit of epoxy (13 gals mixed) and that should last a while. Or should I start with more? This will be a slow project - targetting to have the stringers and all wood bits done this summer and finish it up next spring. Any comments on cutting them out (or is it even as bad as I think)? ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: May-31-2012 at 1:22pm
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Before you get to the point where youre creating a materials list, you need to decide the method youre going to use to rebuild the boat. Maybe youve done this already, but feel free to clue us in. 1. Wood vs. composite 2. Foam vs. no foam 3. Floor material (glass over foam vs. plywood, etc) 4. Extra structural members (ribs, bulkheads, etc) or not? (Largely dependent on your answers to 1-3). Those will drive your material list to a great degree. For a "factory" stringer/floor job (wood stringers, foam, glass over foam floor) then I would say that 10-12 gallons of epoxy (not including the hardener) is in the ballpark. Other methods may require more. I agree that shooting for a glass thickness similar to the factory is a good idea. If using all cloth, that will likely take 10+ layers (probably closer to 15). Certainly nowhere near the 2 that USC recommends. If mixing in some mat or biax, then 5-7 layers may be more appropriate. The fact that they think 2 layers of cloth is sufficient is just downright scary... maybe for a lightweight outboard that doesnt have a V8 resting on the stringers, but not for a stiff-hulled inboard, thats for sure. ------------- |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: May-31-2012 at 9:58pm
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Rebuilding to same as factory. 1. Wood, 2. foam, 3. fibreglass over foam, 4. no extra ribs etc. The USC was saying 2 layers biax cloth. Based on others I am thinking 3 layers biax, one layer mat and onlayer of cloth to finish it off - seems that should give about 0.25" over the floor. I will also use one layer of tape on the primary stringers and two of the biax and then one-two biax over to cover and build up. The secondary I'll just use cloth. I will stick with 10 gallons of epoxy for now, the shelf life of a year has me thinking less rather than more (although I have used epoxy I had for several years and it seemed to work, but maybe I just din't know better). Even though I hope to get the epoxy all done this year I see several of these jobs have dragged on and mine may well end up like that. I have the day off tomorrow so will try to get the boat blocked up and start removing the one primary stringer - my wife can't decide whether I am to work outside or inside the garage - I have warned her about the dust. I have told her once a stringer is out the boat can't move till its back in  ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-01-2012 at 1:30am
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Have you read any of the stringer threads that discuss glass layup schedules? I dislike your proposed schedule for several reasons- thick layers (biax, mat) are harder to work with as they don't bend well. Following a thick layer, it is very easy to introduce air bubbles where you stagger the joints. Cloth is probably the worst choice for a finish layer. The common biax used from USC has cloth woven at 45 reg angles, so you wouldn't have many layers with their greatest strength in the most important directions. Your proposed layup will be about 1/8" or so; not approaching 1/4". That's thefirst Ive heard of epoxy having a 1 yr shelf life... I too, am skeptical! Ive used older stuff without issue. No way would I grind inside the garage, what a mess!!! You can remove the stringers and then brace the hull afterwards. That would allow you to keep the boat mobile. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-01-2012 at 2:35am
Gel coat is the same too,it says 90 days but I have had 1 can going on 3 years. I have always used this stuff,it seems to work  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
TRBenj wrote:Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-01-2012 at 9:19am
I've got epoxy that's still good and is at least 5 years old! Gary, I've used the technique of removing the oxygen from cans for years however, I don't buy the expensive little cans. I always have a bottle of MIG shielding gas (75/25 for carbon steel and the "Tri-mix" for stainless) and use it to evacuate the oxygen. Getting the oxygen out of the partially filled coating cans does work. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: June-01-2012 at 12:42pm
Tim - I have read so many I get confused I keep notes but then have trouble finding where I got it from - even when I link it! My original plan was 2" 4" and 8" tape for the primaries (2 layers each) which was before I talked to USC. I think that is what you and several others have used. The Biax layers above with the mat and cloth on top was my thinking for the floor - the 3 biax layers (@ 0.044") should be 1/8" alone I thought - or does it thin out when wetted out? Anyway - my orignal idea (copied from Big Pappa LVL build)again before talking to USC was 3 layers of mat, one biax and one cloth - I thought Biax would be easier to work with and to work than mat so switched them in my comment above. As for the epoxy shelf life - it is noted in USC FAQ although they say it can be used longer and recommend agitating the hardner if its been sitting a long time. And boat is going outside today. Can't wait to start cutting and grinding. Thanks for all the comments. Glad I asked as I want to make this easier, not harder (from prior experience I don't like fibreglass but it seems to like me). Hopefully I'll make some progress this weekend. ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-01-2012 at 12:56pm
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I like the doubled up 2/4/8 cloth on the stringers much better than multiple layers of thicker material. I would add biax up the side of the stringer, as well as capping the tops of the primaries with it. On the floor, youre correct that the 3 layers of biax would be 1/8". Mat is thinner than biax and a single layer of cloth will add next to no appreciable thickness, so you'll be just a shade beyond 1/8" with that layup. I think that biax on the floor is overkill. The reason for a thick build up here is more for impact resistance than pure strength. I would opt for alternating layers of cloth and mat instead- you'll get plenty of strength from that combo, and mat builds thickness pretty quick. Its really no harder to work with than biax- it actually forms bends a *little* easier, as its not quite as thick. Mat is also significantly cheaper than the biax. 3-5 layers of alternating mat/cloth on the floor should be fine- starting and ending with mat. ------------- |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: June-01-2012 at 10:59pm
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Thanks for all the help. Should have ordered today but was too busy trying to get the one primary stringer out - Unsuccessfully. Thought I would just have to cut along the bottom both sides through the fibreglass and there wouldn't be much else holding it in. I REMOVED all the fibreglass and its still bonded so well doesn't even wiggle. So why is it bonded so well at the hull when the sides peel off? I'd really like to get them out whole to get a good pattern - any ideas?  I looked at using the sawzall but even with a long blade doesn't look good for just cutting along the hull. wood looks pretty good - can even see the mill stamp on it. ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-01-2012 at 11:12pm
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Chuck, I think this is the first time I've heard anyone doing a stringer job having a problem getting the old ones out. It's got to be a combination of them being in pretty good shape and the factory doing a unheard of good job!  I'd draw a straight line lengthwise down the stringer for future reference. Then, cut them into about 3 sections. With the line drawn on the old, you can then clamp them off to a straight edge and use them for templates.------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: June-01-2012 at 11:30pm
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Pete - I was really hoping to get it as complete as possible - the need to scribe a bunch to get the bottem right worries me (even though you and others suggest it is not that hard I have my doubts). I am going to make sure the glass is gone done as close to the floor as I can first (its only about 1/4 plus or minus now) and see if it doesn't loosen up. Even thinking of sanding it right down. Wood looked so good I thought a little CPES and re-wrap it with epoxy but I'm this far now .... will get it out one way or other - the line and multiple pieces will be the back-up plan I guess. Thanks. ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-02-2012 at 12:16am
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If you're sure you're through the glass on the sides, then I'd be inclined to break out the sledge. ------------- |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: June-02-2012 at 1:03am
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Through the glass - I actually took it off the stringer (see picture above). I wacked at if a few times - it is solid! ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: June-03-2012 at 2:06pm
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Okay Got it out intact. Two additional hours cutting with the diamond blade and grinding (sanding) with flapper wheel thing and a couple gentle wacks with a (small) sledge and out it came. Perfect condition for a pattern. Was not stuck at all along the bottem just the glass on the sides holding. No wonder this boat weighed so much it seems to be bedded in an inch of glass. The secondary stringer is in tight too. An hour of grinding and just starting to get some movement - probably another hour there. Hope to get it out and all the misc plywood by the time we take off for a couple weeks at the lake at the end of the month. The stamp on the wood indicated select structural grade Douglas Fir, S Dry (<19%) as supplied 30 some years ago. The WCLB is the West Coast Lumber Bureau (as the grading agency it seems) so I guess they (CC) were shipping it across the country.  And now I understand the icing sugar donut comments from previous threads. Good thing I didn't try this in the garage.  Got the order in for US Composites -$350 shipping here is still better than local pricing. Still need to find a good source for CPES (local about $80/qt). I'll be back with some questions when I think I have got the hull ready to epoxy to. ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: June-13-2012 at 1:39am
Progress is dismal due to rain  Have only spent about 3 hours since my last post. Have my CPES ready to go, 8 boxes on their way from US composites, and SS D. Fir on order from Vancouver Island! (amazing how hard to find the right wood when I thought I lived next door to Douglas Fir country!) Have cut out the rudder box reinforcment - it was solid wood (vs plwood) and not really rotten or any water even. Lots of sanding/grinding to come   The exhaust backing and the backing for the swim platform were both plywood and while not totally rotten - did not hold together when removed. I will replace with CPES'd wood but if I do another I'll be looking very carefully at the COOSA composite. Probaly be mid July before I make much more progress due to family commitments.... ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: July-23-2012 at 2:46am
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Have gotten only maybe 5 hours work in the last month - although hopefully getting close with the sanding/grinding for the port side. I cut out the rear lift wood the other day and the plywood was not really rotten at all - the heads of the bolts were pretty deteriated though. I somehow thought the bolts would be only through the second smaller piece of plywood but they were simpy counter sunk through both. The interesting thing is that he back piece of plywood seems to have had saw cuts every inch or so maybe 1/4 deep (except for the top ~5"). Anyone know why? I was thinking that maybe the thought was to have the fibreglass go in those groves to provide some mechanical grip (if so didn't work).  Also, finding that behind almost every piece of wood removed there is a layer of what I am calling 'rotten fibreglass' - looks like cloth with the resin extracted. Behind the plywood for the lift ring angle holder it was pretty consistantly 1/4" thick! Also under the stingers for a large potion of the length and some under the rudder wood. Is this from water damage or just not wetted in the first place?  Anyway - thinking I am getting pretty close to where the port side stringers can go in.  I think I have collected about 5 gallons of fibreglass dust so far - not to mention what has blown away or I've washed out. Hope to get another half dozen hours into this in the next couple weeks or it will be mid August befor I can do it.... ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-23-2012 at 9:16am
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Chuck, That "rotten" glass is from it not being wetted out completely. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: July-23-2012 at 10:41am
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That's a lot of glass that wasn't wettted - not a good process I guess. Any ideas on the slots that appear in the back of the board and whether I should duplicate? ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-23-2012 at 10:48am
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I don't know about the saw kerfs on the backside. You may be correct that they were trying to create some grip. The only other thing I can think of is if there is any curvature, they wanted the wood to conform to that curve. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-23-2012 at 10:51am
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I'm surprised that rudder port was dry. I agree with Tim(I know yall already worked this out), the thinner materials are much easier to work with. A lightly routed edge on corners also helps. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: September-23-2012 at 6:14pm
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Back at it - summer was not good for getting work done but I did get all the grinding done - and 3 of the 4 stringers epoxied in-place earlier this month - now back in garage for winter. I 'kind-of' kept track of my time and figure I spent about 20 hours just in grinding (sanding disk on grinder) the old fibreglass off. Question: I am wanting an additional drain in the rear of the transom - seems pretty straight forward to put one in - it would go through the backing for the lifting attachment so the thickness of the transom shouldn't be an issue - any issues from other's experience? This is about where I am at.  And would be done for the year as it is too cold to epoxy most days already - but I am having a furnace installed in the garage next month so should get it done for next summer (is that really a boat cost??) ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-23-2012 at 6:28pm
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Chuck, I don't really know what you would gain by adding the extra hull drain. The low spot is where CC installed the garboard drain towards the front of the engine. With the epoxy with the cold weather, just go with a quicker hardener. Hey, so far it's looking great!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: September-23-2012 at 7:06pm
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When I set the boat up outside I was careful to level it (I thought) so the water would drain - it didn't - boat needed to be nose high a bit to get the center garboard to be the low spot - in my case I started thinking that is why the foam under the battery box was so wet - with the floor all in and the engine it is difficult to see where the water might sit and the PO probably thought they had it level and it wasn't draining. My Malibu has both (actually it has three) but I am not clear if CC is still just using one? I guess it just seems like an easier way given the boat is always on an angle on the launch or driveway. And it costs $10 plus some time. and ssshhh - don't tell my wife about the quicker hardner  - although the furnace is more for the foaming to follow than the epoxy as they are saying +30C (80+F) is optimum and we'll be below freezing by the time I am ready to foam and that would mean waiting till next summer. AND - I had the gas and chimney installed when we buit the house 20 years ago - so its about time!And thanks - I am pretty happy so far although did discover the secondary stringer shift a bit when I add weight to hold it down (~1/4") but I'll make sure the exhaust fits when I line up the "Inner" secondary pieces. ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: September-23-2012 at 11:21pm
Only if you never turn it on for other projects Your job looks great,I like the look of new stringers.------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: January-04-2013 at 8:44pm
Well a 3 and a half month hiatus and I was able to find some tiime over the Christmas break to epoxy in the last secondary stringer. Furnace works great - could hold 80F when it was -20C (~-4F?) outside. Did have a bit of a mess-up on the port side secondary stringer - partially because I assumed a measurement (how is a finished 1X8 only 7" and not 7 and 1/2) and it must have shifted - so it is too close to the primary. I will just adjust the 'inner secondary" (the piece that juts out to make sure I have the 5" trough that was there for the mufflers originally. Interestingly the elevation seems still okay relative to where the floor was previously.  Starting to cut some biax for the primary. Have been trying both the 2"4" 8" tape and the 17oz biax - seem to have better success with the biax - had to sand a bunch of my 8" glass after the 2"and 4" seemed perfect i ended up with a bunch of air in the 8"  which i ground out making a mess again. Oh well, this is supposed to be fun (right). Looking at other posts and realizing still how far to go. Maybe I didn't need to order the upholstery quite yet  ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-05-2013 at 1:48am
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Hey Chuck! I am getting in on this a little late, but your work looks pretty good. I am glad you decided to replace the wood even if it appeared okay. Rot is caused by a fungus. Fungus has spores. These spores cannot be seen with the naked eye. If you had "pieced" a repair together, it is possible that the "good looking" wood may have contained some spores that would have led to more rot. As for your transom drain, I have put one in my Southwind, too. It isn't original (sorry Pete), but if you trailer your boat, I am sure that you store it a little nose high. If you have a transom drain, the water will run out. Also, when sitting on the trailer and coupled to your tow vehicle, there is no guarantee that the factory installed drain is in fact the low point. Of course, following the same logic, there is no guarantee the transom drain is either. Another benefit (and don't cringe too much everyone) is that when you are on plane and you have water in the boat from people getting in and out during playtime, you can pop the transom drain and watch the water go right out the back. This way you are not trying to remove a plug around a running engine. My dad used to do this with our old Crestliner when I was a kid. That slurping sound still sticks in my head as the moving water drew the water out of the boat. Just don't loose the plug or forget to put it back. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-05-2013 at 1:49am
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Did you build your Glen-L "Squirt"? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: January-05-2013 at 3:35am
yes - built the squirt a while ago when my kids were much smaller - doesn't get much use now but no-one will let me get rid of it.....  ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-05-2013 at 3:54am
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I don't blame them. Glen-L has some pretty cool boats. They now have Ken Hankinson's designs, too, since Ken passed. When I was married, the 10 year and I were going to do a stitch and glue boat. Sometimes I am sorry that didn't happen. That Squirt looks like a blast! Is it very fast? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: January-05-2013 at 7:38pm
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At one point we figured it got up to about 30mph - seems much faster when you are in it. ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: January-05-2013 at 7:55pm
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That Squirt looks like it might cause a serious lifelong addiction to boating ------------- This is the life |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: January-06-2013 at 6:49pm
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Took a break from the epoxy yesterday to take off some engine parts to clean and repaint for when the engine is ready to go back in. Stripped the 5/16 hex on one of the exhaust manifold bolts. Guessing I'll drill off the head to get the manifold off and then have to try and drill out the shaft to use an ezee out on? I am sure I'm not the first this has happened to. Didn't need this but probably not too unexpected (especially when I let my in-experienced son work on that part). Least it is only one bolt. ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-06-2013 at 7:11pm
Chuck, A socket head cap screw is a grade 8 or better. They are hardened so I doubt you will have any luck drilling. Grind or cut the head off with the Dremel. Then, grab the shank with vise grips since you will have the same problem drilling for an ez-out. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-06-2013 at 8:03pm
Exhaust manifold bolts are Grade 8? Head bolts, sure, but exhaust? Chuck, You might want to consider going to exhaust studs. Chrysler used them and they seem to have less trouble. Tony ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: January-06-2013 at 8:18pm
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I had to drill one out today when removing the manifolds, took best part of an hour!! ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-06-2013 at 8:31pm
Head bolt or exhaust bolt? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-06-2013 at 8:34pm
Tony, Before you make a assumption about socket head cap screws, you may want to do some research. From the tech description: "The standard among high-strength fasteners, these screws are made from an alloy steel that's comparable to Grade 8 steel and conforms to ASTM A574. They have a black-oxide finish that provides lubricity and mild rust resistance. Screw sizes through 1" have a Class 3A thread fit. Screw sizes larger than 1" have a Class 2A thread fit. Screw sizes through 1/2" have a minimum Rockwell hardness of C39 and minimum tensile strength of 180,000 psi. Screw sizes larger than 1/2" have a minimum Rockwell hardness of C37 and minimum tensile strength of 170,000 psi. Screw length is measured from under the head." BTW, I mentioned a socket head cap screw is grade 8 or better. A grade 8 has a min. tensile of 150,000 PSI and a C33 Rockwell!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-06-2013 at 9:04pm
Just like an engineer! Which book is this quoted from? I still didn't know that an exhaust bolt was Grade 8 or equivalent. And I stand by using studs instead. Having used both, studs sre easier to work with.------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-06-2013 at 9:06pm
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And, yes, I am familiar with tensile strength numbers and Rockwell hardness test numbers and Fit classes. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-06-2013 at 9:32pm
http://www.fastenal.com/content/documents/FastenalTechnicalReferenceGuide.pdf" rel="nofollow - Technical Data; Cap Screws See Pete? I can be trained. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: January-07-2013 at 1:10am
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I missed this conversation until now but had been looking for drill bits since mine didn't touch the bolt (thought I just had cheap bits)- was going to try some left hand bits thinking it might work the bolt out during drilling?. I don't have a dremel but I can get hold of one I am sure (another project tool) but what kind of blade can you get for that to cut the hard steel? It always seemed like such a little tool (if only my 4" grinder would fit). ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-07-2013 at 1:25am
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Left handed drill bits can help so can a dremel,I use mine alot. If you guy's are finding allen headed bolts in an 80's boat I'd bet they have already been changed. My Dads 87 PCM'd boat had regular bolts. He had a hard time getting them off the first time mostly because of the center console.He then used stainless allen heads with anti seize and had no problem removing them again. 1100+ hours in salt water,he was on his 3rd set. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: January-07-2013 at 10:02am
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Is there any way to get a torch onto the bolt's head? Use a fine tip & keep the heat on the bolt so you don't warp the head. If nothing else, it will soften the bolt to make it easier to drill. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: January-07-2013 at 1:18pm
Manifold bolt, one of the hex ones - it took 2 HSS drill bits, some oil and plenty of swearing!!
------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-07-2013 at 5:33pm
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If I understand you correctly, the "hex bolt" you referring to has an inside hex, correct? I was thinking hex bolt as in hexagonal shaped head. If it's a inside hex, then yes, those are typically heat treated bolts and will require a pretty stout drill bit and a lot of time. Tony ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-07-2013 at 5:35pm
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I wasn't getting the nomenclature. Sorry, Pete. "Nomenclature, nomenclature!" as my old aircraft hardware instructor used to say. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-07-2013 at 9:22pm
Tony, What size bolt uses a 5/16" hex head?? I doubt his manifolds are held on with 10-32 or 10-24 machine screws!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-07-2013 at 9:27pm
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Pete, okay, point taken. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-07-2013 at 9:28pm
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Pete, okay, point taken. Stop beating me up, already. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-07-2013 at 9:37pm
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Pete, Would Lubriplate or some other thread anti seizing lubricant keep this from happening again & at the same time allow enough torque to keep the bolt from backing out? What about using thread lubricant and a bolt locking device similar to what is used on high performance auto engines for headers? thanks, Tony  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-07-2013 at 10:16pm
Chuck, Dremel has a small abrasive cut off wheel that's about 1&1/2" in diameter. It will fit into tight areas. Check it to see if it would work. Besides the cut off, you could try some mounted stones in the Dremel. It won't be quick but they will grind the head off. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: January-08-2013 at 2:19am
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Pete and everyone - thanks for all the input. Probably won't get back at it for a week or more but will let you know how it goes..... ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: dwouncmd
Date Posted: January-08-2013 at 12:38pm
I really like that squirt. I am very tempted to try something like that in the next year or two. My boys will soon be the right age to help with a project like that. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6535&sort=&pagenum=2" rel="nofollow - 89 SN <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6567&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow">7 |
Posted By: dwouncmd
Date Posted: January-08-2013 at 12:40pm
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Though stringers are in my future too... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6535&sort=&pagenum=2" rel="nofollow - 89 SN <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6567&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow">7 |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-08-2013 at 1:00pm
Glenwood makes some pretty neat designs.If this would be a first time build I recommend a Stitch 'N' Glue boat. They are fairly simple and go together pretty quick. So younger minds stay interested and see an end in sight. http://www.glen-l.com/" rel="nofollow - Glen-L Main Page https://www.boatdesigns.com/Stitch-and-Glue-Construction/departments/16/" rel="nofollow - Stitch "n" Glue Boats A friend of mine at the Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri knew Glen and said that most of the designs go together as advertised. Glenwood publishes some pretty good books on boatbuilding in wood, fiberglass, and metal. Very informative. And their hardware catalog has parts that I hadn't seen outside of museum pieces in a number of years. Way cool. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: Tonali_III
Date Posted: January-08-2013 at 1:06pm
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Hers's a link to the Squirt. http://www.glen-l.com/designs/outboard/squirt.html%20" rel="nofollow - Glenwood Squirt ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=553&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1974 Southwind 20 <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 5:16pm
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Well, after a week of procrastinating got back to the stripped manifold bolt - against Pete's advice I tried drilling it first - two worn out bits and a cramp in my arm was about all I got for that effort. Broke out my (brand new - another project tool) dremel and kind of laughed at the mini cutting wheel that came with it! Wow - that was easy - that cut the head off in like 10 minutes - if I hadn't broken the two wheels that came with the dremel and had to run out for more it would have been sooo easy. After the head was off the bolt the manifold came off no issue and putting vice grips on (cut a bit of a flat spot to help them grip) bolt was out. I was very sceptical about how well that dremel would cut the hard steel - well I am certainly a believer now. What a great tool. Well - maybe concentrate on some epoxy/glassing for the next while. It is -28C (-24F) out right now but supposed to warm up a bunch by the weekend. ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: February-20-2013 at 5:57pm
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Hi all - been working away glassing in the stringers and now pretty much done except to cap them all. More on that later - quick question as I see nautique skins has carpet on special - is an 8' piece going to do the floor (max width 5') plus both sides? I am not able to measure right now but I thought it would work. I have the pieces to measure but thought some with experience with 1980 size boats (seem the same size mid 70 to 81?)- I know it would be tight but ordering twice as much seems overkill? ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-20-2013 at 6:06pm
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CC 3-pieced the carpet (floor + 2 sides)... they didnt wrap from the floor to walls. 6' width would be fine, but I'd order 2.5x the boat length. 1x for each (floor + walls) and then some left over to do all of your panels up front against the airbox, in front of the gas tank, batt box cover, etc. Running short and having to reorder more would be a PITA (and cost you more). If you want to stick with an original style carpet (blue astroturf) you can get it at http://www.marinecarpeting.com/boat-carpet/indoor-outdoor-carpet/grass-style-carpet.html" rel="nofollow - Marine Carpeting . Does your '80 have carpet on the bottom of the motorbox? Something else to add to the list if it does. ------------- |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: February-20-2013 at 6:14pm
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I was trying to figure out if one 8' wide piece can be cut for the floor pluss the two sides. An the 1980 does have the carpet at the bottem of the motor box too. ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-20-2013 at 6:26pm
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Hopefully you saved your old carpet to use as a template? If so, then lay it out on the floor and see if you can arrange them in such a way that would allow you to get all 3 pieces out of a '8 width. I suspect you'd run short. The carpet is sewn to the motorbox vinyl... so thats a challenge if youre replacing with a different color/style than you had before. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-20-2013 at 9:06pm
Yes, stick with the original!!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: February-20-2013 at 9:46pm
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Tim - I did keep the original carpet. The vinyl is all getting replaced too (in fact i have the seats all sitting in the basement ready to go - just the motor box to have the vinyl (from Christines) installed - once I have the carpet. So I will roll it out in the garage to measure tonight (and be sweeping up pieces of carpet for weeks I am sure). Pete - I am keeping it 'pretty much original' - converting to GPS speedos though(Dean has both my airguide and electro-marine speedos right now). ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: February-20-2013 at 9:47pm
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... and does anyone know why the photos have all seemed to disappear from page 2 of this post (or is it just me?) ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-20-2013 at 10:59pm
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If you had them on photobucket,did you delete them? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: February-21-2013 at 3:04am
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Just measured the old pieces and need 24" for the sides so ned twice the floor lenght (or 2.5 times) - jeez went from a pretty good deal to wow thats a bunch of $$. need to check out a few more options. ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: February-21-2013 at 3:06am
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Oh - and no, photos were posted straight to the forum not on photobucket ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: February-21-2013 at 3:11am
current status (doesn't look much different but sure takes some time..... ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: March-22-2014 at 4:29pm
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Over a year since posting - but the project is still going on and the end is 'near'. ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: March-22-2014 at 4:34pm
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Over the last year I thought I would compensate for my lack of fibre-glassing skill by trying vacuum bagging. First effort placed some reinforcement on an area of the keel where the gel has been rubbed completely off.  which should mean I won't have to worry about it for the gel coat repair... ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: March-22-2014 at 4:39pm
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Also did it for the rudder backing and the rear lifting ring backing - but that was as complicated as it got - tried on the stringers and it was too difficult (for me) to get it all sealed. Plus the venturi vacuum system probably doesn't have near enough air flow. (The system doesn't want to upload pictures for me right now, complaining already uploaded one of that name, maybe because I tried earlier and it crashed?) ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: March-22-2014 at 4:51pm
I made a new battery box to replace what I had cut out - that also turned out to be a lot more work than I bargained for. Made a plug with the two part foam, but only loosely lined the old box with plastic so the plug was pretty rough and took a bunch of bondo to try and get it to look half okay. In the end a couple layers of cloth was too flimsy so went over it again with 2-3 layers of biax and it turned out pretty good.          ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: March-22-2014 at 5:27pm
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Trying to post some pics of foaming but has crashed twice now so will try later....... ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: March-30-2014 at 11:13am
Foaming..... Used the 4 lb density foam from US Composites. Had a couple pieces of plastic left over from the seat base which I used to help control the foam expansion. For the most part it worked very well. If I had taken a little more time and cut pieces to use as forms in the smaller and curvier (if that's a word) I would have had almost no waste. As it was I think I only had a couple ft3 wastage. renamed photos for the 4th time as system still thinks I have already uploaded!     ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: March-30-2014 at 11:25am
Then my new 4" conduit to replace the 3" pushed me over too far and I ended up breaking my plywood bulkhead piece. I had played around with making one with gelcoat layer (painted on a piece of plastic) and two layers of 17 oz biax on either side of a piece of cloth - when it was done I thought it was a it too flimsy so stayed with the plywood - until it broke anyway. Since this bulkhead is backed by foam I decided it was suddenly good enough.    Cutting the air box area with a saw was easy enough but if I was to do it again I might make a nice form to fill with foam to get it a bit smoother. I elected to go with no wood at all as I do not plan to puts screws through the glass - I will glass pieces externally to screw the kick-plat piece to.  ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |