Coupler Removal and Install
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25700
Printed Date: April-24-2024 at 11:30pm
Topic: Coupler Removal and Install
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Subject: Coupler Removal and Install
Date Posted: April-23-2012 at 3:18am
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Just thought it was time someone threw together a how to on coupler and prop shaft removal. So diving right in lets discuss the stock setup. CC uses a single taper Stainless Steel prop shaft that uses an interference fit to the coupler. In layman’s terms the taper end is for the prop, the other end that fits into the coupler is a regular keyed heat-fit shaft end. The coupler then bolts to its brother on the transmission via 4 bolts. Unbolting the coupler is easy… getting to coupler off the shaft requires some effort to be discussed below. There are only 2 ways to get the prop shaft out of the boat. A. you remove the coupler and slide it out the back(you’ll need to remove the rudder as well) OR B. you have to remove the engine and pull it out the front(you’ll have to pull the prop). Most people choose option A. for reasons you’ll discover later in addition to the obvious fact that most individuals do not have an overhead lift readily available. Now regardless of why you are removing your shaft/coupler I highly recommend you take care/check the areas below: • Strut Bearings - $70 and adds about 10 additional minutes to the process, CC says they should be done ever 300-400 hours and if they get bad enough they can cause vibration issues. • Shaft straightness – Another thing that can cause vibration issues among other problems. You can either use a dial indicator to mic the shaft or use a granite table and some feeler gauges. Lots of threads on both methods. • Log hose – Its rubber so if you have an older boat and it doesn’t look like a spring chicken do yourself a favor and spend $7 replacing it. Again takes almost no time and will prevent a whole world of headaches if you get a leak from a crack/tear. • Coupler alignment – I say do this before you remove it to see if you have a tranny rebuild in your future and afterwards to make sure you didn’t knock it out of alignment during the removal or install. • Stuffing Box – You don’t need to remove your shaft to do this, but might as well take care of all your maintenance while you’re getting dirty. $9 for some gortex rope and 20 minutes to pull out the old and wrap the new. Ok now on to the fun stuff. I’m gonna break this into a few sections: Replacement Options, removal techniques, Install walk through. I’ll also throw in some tips and tricks I picked up while doing it myself. My strong advise is if you have the money to burn do the A.R.E. system and save yourself the headache. If you'd prefer to spend that money on a new 422 prop instead then buy a new coupler(split or oem) and have some fun working on the boat instead of throwing money at it. I would only reuse the original coupler as a last resort if I was dirt broke and had nothing better to waste hours of monotony on. It is by far the most irritating and time consuming of the 3 paths you can take, though it is the cheapest. |
Replies:
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-23-2012 at 3:21am
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Replacement Options: 1. A.R.E. Shaft system – Double tapered system that makes installing and removing a breeze. If you have a spare $400 it’s a good investment especially if you ever plan on removing the shaft again, whether it be for a tranny rebuild, log hose issues, or strut bearing replacement. 2. New oem style coupler - $80 and saves you about 2-3hrs by allowing you to cut off the old one. If you have a salt water boat or a boat pre 90 you’ll probably just want to save yourself a night of crying and just cut the damn thing off. 3. Split Coupling – a 2-piece bolt on coupler that eliminates having to heat the coupler up for reinstall. Adds almost all of the benefits of the A.R.E system for a fraction of the price (around $65 vs. $400). Only thing you need to worry about here is making sure you get the right length for your application and/or that you have enough room for the additional length. The ones I came across added between .5-1 inch of length due to the mounting body. If your shaft is fine and you just want the ease of removal/install next time around then I say give the split coupler a strong consideration. 4. Stock coupler – Free as you’ll just reuse your current one. By far the longest total repair time as removing is a PITA, and reinstalling is a hot topic… lol you’ll get the joke further down. |
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-23-2012 at 3:22am
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Removal: There are only 2 ways I’m aware of that don’t risk damage to your transmission. If you would like to use a slide hammer then you’ll also want to give Eric L. a call a few months later for a transmission overhaul. Before either method you need to undo and remove the 4 bolts on the coupler, the 2 safety bolts in the coupler, the 2 allen bolts on the safety collar above the stuffing box, and remove the rudder. You could technically remove the rudder later on, but it gives you more room to slide the shaft down. I’d also recommend loosening the hose clamps on the log hose just so everything can slide and move freely. If you are opting for the A.R.E. system then simply grab an angler grinder/torch/portable band saw and cut through the shaft. Or if you have a sentimental attachment to the shaft slice the coupler down both sides and pull the 2 pieces apart. Method 1 – ‘Socket Puller’ system: You’ll need (4) 3/8” bolts 4-5” long, and (8) washers and nuts. I suggest getting a spare set, as the process will stretch the threads and round off the nuts, so you may want to replace everything halfway through or when you mess up installing and have to pull it off again. Well worth the extra $4 in my opinion. Also make sure you get full threaded bolts and not halfway threaded. Now slide the coupler and shaft down far enough to get a 11/16” deep socket between the 2 halves, then push them back together to hold the socket. Take a bolt and spin a nut all the way to the hex end, insert a washer, push it through the 2 coupler halves, then put on another washer and nut. Install all 4 and tighten the 2 nut pairs till they are tight. You’ll want zero threads popping through the tranny side nut as you have little clearance to the case bolts and we’ll be cranking that direction. Like the name implies you’ll go around and evenly tighten all the bolts creating a make shift puller/presser with a pair of box wrenches. After a few rotations you’ll need to loosen the bolts up 1 at a time to pull the threads back from the case side nut, as too much thread will catch the case side bolts and keep you from spinning the coupler around. This process takes forever so be prepared to waste a lot of time. I had a 6 pack and the stereo on. Physically, other than being bent over, it’s a very easy process. Just very very slow as you’re pushing out the shaft 1/16” at a time. Ended up taking me just over an hour of solid turning to pop out the shaft after I screwed up getting the coupler back on and i only had it on half way. Method 2 – Angle Grinder: If you’re safety screws are rusted in or you just think your time is worth more than a new $80 coupler then this method is for you. It literally took me 10 minutes to cut mine off. You’ll need a 4.5” angle grinder at minimum, but a 5” would be better. 4.5” is just barely wide enough to cut all the way through. Do NOT use grinding wheels, get a cut-off wheel. The best and safest way to do it is to make a primary slice directly down the key way. It is thinner and if you over cut you just cut into the key and don’t risking damaging the shaft. So now that you’ve made your primary cut the full length of the coupler ALL the way through, including the flange, rotate the shaft 180 degrees to the opposite side. Now make a slice the full lenght same as above ALMOST all the way through the coupler. Leave about 1/8”, in the ballpark is fine its not exact. Now rotate it back over to the primary cut and use screwdrivers and prybars to open it like a clam shell. Open it enough to completely close the cut you made on the back side. Now go back and cut in the exact same spot to open it back up again. Repeat this process about 3 times and it will open up like a clam shell allowing you to simply pull it off. You could simply cut it all the way through on the backside, but you risk cutting into the shaft. This way you never have to worry about cutting too deep and it only takes a few more minutes to make the additional slices. |
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-23-2012 at 3:23am
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Installation: If you opted for the A.R.E. system or the split coupler then installation should be obvious and this section isn’t necessary. If you plan to reuse you’re old coupler or the oem ‘new’ coupler you purchased then keep reading. Before we get to the actual install you MUST do some prep work. I’ll say it again do the prep work or you’ll be cussing when the coupler gets stuck half way on and you have to go back to the removal stage. You’ve been warned! Prep: The coupler/shaft combination is heat fit and as such has VERY TIGHT tolerances. Meaning the slightest bur, piece of sand, mushroom, or rough spot will make your life hell when you go to slide the very hot coupler on the shaft. So the first thing you need to do is prep the coupler. If you bought a new coupler all you need to do is ensure the key(NEW do not reuse old key) slides smoothly in the keyway(the angles should face up on the key like a pyramid) and maybe run some emory cloth over the inside areas where the safety screw holes are to make sure there aren’t tiny burs. The inside on the new couplers is machined from the factory so you should be fine. If the key has any resistance use emory cloth or a metal file to lightly sand the flat surfaces of the key. You want a smooth fit not a loose one so sand and retest frequently. If you are reusing your old coupler then I would suggest at the very least lightly sanding the inside of the coupler with a 150 or higher emory cloth just to polish it up. You really should use a dial caliper to check the variance to under .001”, but in most cases you wouldn’t need to. Now the shaft is a different story. Again check the key fit first and make sure it slides easily. As pointed out by a fellow member the shafts seem to like to mushroom right around the middle of the key way. Don’t know why, but mine did and I didn’t have a hammer anywhere near it. You’re first clue will be if you can’t slide the safety collar off with 2 fingers. If the collar gets hung up even a little bit you got a mushroom area. No biggy, you’ll just need to break out the emory cloth. I started with 50 grit and used a reverse shoe buff style (like the letter U) for about 10 strokes with light pressure. Rotated the shaft a quarter turn and repeated till I did a full rotation(4 cycles if you’re counting). I did this with 50, then used dial calipers to check the variance, again you want to be under .001” the whole length of the keyway. If you still have a high area center the piece of emory cloth and do a few more strokes all the way around. In my case 50 did it for me, but I followed it up with 150 just to polish it up. Even if your collar slides smoothly I’d probably still break out the dial calipers and/or hit it with a quick 150. Again it is a very tight heat fit so you want the inside of the coupler and the shaft to be as smooth and level as possible. Tip: to hold the key still in the keyway on the shaft, use a dab or 2 of superglue to glue it flush with the end of the shaft. One less worry when it comes coupler slide time. Super glue is strong enough to keep it from moving with the coupler as you slide it on, but dries brittle meaning a tap with a hammer will break it loose should you need to remove the key from the shaft in the future. Oven Time: Ok so now its time to heat up the coupler. Preheat your oven to 500-550, the hotter the better. I threw my coupler in while it was preheating, as I wanted as much core heat up as possible. Once its up to temp set the timer to between 1.5-2hrs. I like 2, again to make absolutely sure the core and not just the surface of the coupler is heated up. I read of people being able to slide it on at 425 degrees, but the hotter you get it the more it expands and the more time you have to work it before it cools off. Icing or dry icing the shaft wouldn’t be a bad idea, but its not needed if you get the coupler over 500 degrees. While its heating up its time to do a final cleaning of the shaft with some paper towels and put everything back on. This means log hose, stuffing box WITH lock nut, and the safety collar. I also got a spray bottle of water and sprayed down the bilge area and around the fuel filter area as well, just to make sure I didn’t have any fire issues. I threw a towel around the invertaflow and exhaust pipe as well, just incase I bumped the hot coupler against them. 500 degress will burn a hole in the pipe in under 10 seconds and that rubber exhaust hose is ridiculously expensive. So how does one handle a 500 degree coupler? With extreme care and protection! I wore mechanix gloves, followed by leather welding gloves. On my “holding” slash pushing hand I also put on a flame proof oven mit you can get at walmart. Even with this you have about 6-8 seconds of contact before it will get too hot for you to hold. To actually transport the coupler and put it into position to go on the shaft I used a coat hanger that I flattened the triangle part and made a ring with. Then used the hook part to hook through the keyway adjacent hole(whada ya know if you hold it in this hole its in correct orientation to go on the shaft). I also used a frying pan to rest the coupler in while I was walking to the boat with the hook still through it as I’m not fond of dangling a very hot coupler while walking and climbing in a boat. That being said you have about 30-45 seconds to get it out of the oven and onto the shaft and lined up. After that it starts cooling and shrinking. Stay calm and take a deep breath while you’re doing this. It doesn’t sound like a ton of time, but if you keep your cool its plenty. The coupler is hot enough to give you serious burn damage so don’t get flustered or try to rush. If you mess it up no big deal you’ll just have to pop it back off with the socket method and try again. Took me 3 times, mainly because I didn’t prep the shaft properly the first 2 times. Once you slide it on you want the end of the shaft to be flush with the inside circle on the coupler. To further check proper positioning you can rotate it and look in the keyway holes to make sure you are centered on the divets. If you are a scosch off take a ballpeen and lightly tap till its there. By the way its better to overshoot and have it too far on the shaft then under shoot. If you undershoot you only have a small window of time to tap it on a bit further. If you overshoot you can either tap the opposite side OR wait for it to cool and use the socket removal method to ease it back to the end of the shaft. Once its cooled proceed to put in the set screws and finish bolting it back up. This is when you’ll want to check for proper coupler alignment. IF its all good make sure to tighten the log hose clamps and check the stuffing box for proper snugness. |
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-23-2012 at 3:28am
| Note: I'll more than likely need to edit some of this and add a few pics here and there, but wanted to get something up that combined everything someone would need to know in a single thread. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-23-2012 at 9:45am
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When you edit, you will need to change some of your ideas. The shaft should not be under size by .001" to the coupling bore. Since it's a heat shrink, you need to be at .000" to - .001". If you do not heat shrink fit, the shaft/coupling will fret. If you buy a new coupling, it too needs to be checked and fitted to the old shaft. A good supplier of shafts and couplings will bore each coupling to match the shaft. Shafting typically has a + or - of .001". One more thing a good supplier (or anyone doing shaft/coupling work) will do is press the coupling onto the shaft, chuck the shaft up in a lathe and take a light clean up cut on the face of the coupling. This ensures the coupling runs true to the shaft. You never know if the coupling was warped during the removal. If this isn't done and the coupling is warped, it will fret. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: MAN - GA
Date Posted: April-24-2012 at 6:03pm
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I thought the heat up method worked until http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25433&title=5-part-save-me-big-time-yesterday" rel="nofollow - this happened to me on the water with the family. ARE is the way to go in my opinion if your reinstalling the shaft without pulling motor. Pete is right on about the fretting my coupler is toast and it rode the key for a while as it is gone as well haven't even been able to find pieces of the key in the bilge. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-24-2012 at 6:38pm
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Mark, The heat shrink method does and has worked for many years but really doesn't cause the shaft breakage you encountered. As mentioned misalignment is the major cause. You had done an alignment but also as mentioned maybe the damage had already been done. A couple other things not mentioned that will do the same thing are a bent shaft or a coupling face that doesn't run true to the bore. The key is you want that shaft to run true out the tail end of the engine. If it doesn't, the shaft flex's with every revolution. The same is true with a bent shaft as it will wobble with every revolution. The black smut caused by fretting was quite evident in the pictures you posted so something was going on and subsequently caused the shaft to break. Fretting: "A special wear process that occurs at the contact area between two materials under load and subject to minute relative motion by vibration or some other force." BTW, in the world of mechanical engineering, fixing a shaft with a rigid coupling on the output of a gearbox and then extending it out increasing the overhung load is not common practice nor is it ever recommended. However, it's been done since the advent of the inboard engine. Everyone check your alignment!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: MAN - GA
Date Posted: April-24-2012 at 7:02pm
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Pete, I agree 100% and everything about my situation is somewhat speculation, the things I can confirm was the shaft was straight as per fall 2010 checks by machine shop and I was highly confident on the shaft/strut alignment and coupler/coupler alignment, I guess after the experience what really turns me off about setting the coupler back on via heat shrink is that fact that it is not as easy as it sounds. The undersizing bore to shaft you reference is critical as I believe this is where my issues arose. All extremely valid points and I am not trying to discount the process, but it is vrey important to check all these things you reference or someone else may fall victim to my situation. And again I would recommend the shaft collar to everyone |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-24-2012 at 7:43pm
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Mark, We will never know - the evidence broke!  A big yes on the ARE shaft.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: grobinson
Date Posted: April-26-2012 at 7:37pm
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Foot_Fungus this is a great post. I replaced my stuffing box with a dripless shaft seal two weekends ago. I did the long, hard, cheap option(s) and was almost in tears several times. I spent 9 plus hours removing and reinstalling the coupler. I too half re-installed the coupler twice. If I ever have to remove the shaft again I'm spending the $400. Who knows, after all that work I probably did it wrong and the shaft will break. Good news is I have a shaft collar. My shaft doesn't seem to vibrate. How do I check the alignment? I just licked my finger and held it in the air. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-26-2012 at 7:44pm
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Grant, Welcome to CCfan. Tell use more about the boat. Model? Year? http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21279&title=shaft-strut-alignment-video" rel="nofollow - Check out the alignment video. Do check for a bent shaft as well as coupling face runout. What did you use for the coupling removal? Hopefully you did the spacer and long threaded rod trick and not a puller. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: grobinson
Date Posted: April-26-2012 at 7:55pm
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I have a 1982 2001. I through this forum and asked around for tips before I went to work on the boat. I used long bolts, a socket and two box wrenchs to push the shaft out. That worked well but took forever. I iced the shaft and baked the coupler at 400 degrees for an hour and a half. I wish I would have known to bake at 550. I got the shaft in most of the way and then placed a piece of wood on the end of the shaft and banged on it with a rubber mallet like an idiot. That worked. The dripless shaft seal is awesome but I'm kind of waiting for my "handy" work to blow up in my face. I spend most of my time 70 feet behind the boat and try not to open the engine cover. |
Posted By: 93 Ski Nautique
Date Posted: May-16-2012 at 2:29am
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Guys - You really know these boats! Here's what I've got, my 93SNOB was making a vibration while turning around for the course. I though i was smart and put in a new strut bearing but am now wondering if I made it worse .Q Here is what I did 1 pulled coupler with harmonic balancer pulled 2 cut out bearing but required much beating to remove 3 didn't know to freeze so I had to beat in the new bearing, seems okay 4 didn't known to heat the coupler so beat it back on the shaft 5 coupler is not perfect since surfaces show minor gaps 6 alignment looks pretty good but I don't like the coupler faces not being perfectly flush 7 am I going to break a shaft due to imperfect coupler to trans mating? Thanks for your help, I'm wondering if I shouldn't buy a new coupler and replace the original Thoughts? |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-16-2012 at 8:40am
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2 key words telling me you fcd up...beat and pretty good ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-16-2012 at 8:41am
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btw, dry ice if ever used on a nitrile strut bearing is not recomended, freezer is acceptable ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-16-2012 at 8:49am
John, I sorry to say you need to start over. Yes in the long run the shaft may break but that usually takes time. It the short run you can damage the trans. The flange faces of the coupling halves must be flush and prop side run true to the prop shaft. You can R&R the existing but the face of the coupling needs to be machined. This is done with the coupling pressed onto the shaft. The shaft is chucked up in the lathe so the new machined surface will then be true to the shaft. The alternate is installing an ARE shaft system. When you had the shaft out, did you check it for straightness especilly at the prop taper? You said the alignment looks "pretty good". Did you even try to get any feeler gauge measurments? Is the shaft tight in the cutlass after you "beat" the cutlass bearing in? For a cutlass install, I always recomment a long piece of threaded rod and fender washers/nuts on the ends. Then cranking the nuts simply pulls it in place. How did the strut alingment look when you put the shaft back in? Did you have to push the prop shaft in any direction to get it centered in the shaft log? Well, welcome to CCfan. I'm sorry that your first post brought real bad news. It's too bad you didn't find the site before you started the project. ALL the information needed is here. I have to ask, did you have any guidance with the project? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
93 Ski Nautique wrote:Posted By: 93 Ski Nautique
Date Posted: May-16-2012 at 10:30am
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Wow - Thanks for the quick responses guys, sorry for my bad english. Typing on the Ipad does that to me. I'll take a shot at answering the questions and I REALLY appreciate your help. -------------------------------------------------- When you had the shaft out, did you check it for straightness especilly at the prop taper? - Nope, but I will when I pull it again to check replace the coupler. ---- You said the alignment looks "pretty good". Did you even try to get any feeler gauge measurments? Nope, but I will. I'm a mechanical engineer so I have a pretty good understanding of the alignment and related stresses. I looked at the stuffing box for motion when turning the assembly. The unloaded alignment looks good (I will measure) but I am sure that once the non-parallel coupler faces get loaded up the results would not be the same under load and thereby stress the trans bearings and probably the shaft too. ------ Is the shaft tight in the cutlass after you "beat" the cutlass bearing in? For a cutlass install, I always recomment a long piece of threaded rod and fender washers/nuts on the ends. Then cranking the nuts simply pulls it in place. Yes, and I'm pretty confident that the bearing is okay. I used a piece of wood to tap that in and it is very tight and seems appropriate, the threaded rod seems like the way to go. -------------------- How did the strut alingment look when you put the shaft back in? Did you have to push the prop shaft in any direction to get it centered in the shaft log? The strut alignment seemed fine. No problem getting the shaft through the log and turning the shaft feels consistent with drag and no hunting around. I think (hope) that part is okay. ------ Well, welcome to CCfan. I'm sorry that your first post brought real bad news. It's too bad you didn't find the site before you started the project. ALL the information needed is here. I have to ask, did you have any guidance with the project? Not the technical guidance that was needed to do the job right. The info on the site is amazing. Here's my current plan: 1. Pull the shaft 2. Replace the coupler with an OEM coupler from SKIDIM. 3. Heat the new coupler for install. 4. One final question, what do you guys do with the key when you slide on the 550 degree coupler? Thanks!!! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-16-2012 at 11:23am
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John, Since you are a mechanical engineer this will be easy for you to understand. The coupling to shaft being a heat shrink fit (-.001" to -.0005") the coupling is tyically bored to match the shaft due to shaft tolerances. Don't count on the new coupling matching the shaft. I stil feel going with the ARE system is the way to go. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: May-16-2012 at 11:32am
Its not original but i concur.Given what's been mashed, plus the likelyhood of the shaft-couple fit going awry, go double-taper, align to a gnats ass, then be skiing in a few hours work. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: 93 Ski Nautique
Date Posted: May-16-2012 at 11:42am
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Sounds like the ARE system is getting a huge accolade from you guys. I'm fine with that, I don't want to have future problems if I can avoid it. Just so I fully understand, the ARE system is a coupler that is used with the original shaft? I'm not finding much info on the net for that. Does SkiDim sell the system you are referring to? Thank you guys so much again! |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: May-16-2012 at 11:57am
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http://www.skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1011" rel="nofollow - SkiDIM sells the A.R.E. No, you dont reuse any part of your old shaft or coupler. This is a full replacement. Its a "double taper", meaning its tapered on both ends. Instead of a press/interference fit on the coupler, its a keyed/tapered fit that doesnt require pressing the coupler off or heating for reinstallation. ------------- |
Posted By: 93 Ski Nautique
Date Posted: May-16-2012 at 12:36pm
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Okay, I'll contact SkiDim. Sounds like they need the length of the old shaft. I hate to spend $400 on it but it sounds like the best way to get it right, especially if the new OEM coupler would be a challenge. Thanks so much for you help! |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: May-16-2012 at 12:49pm
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Dont forget the http://www.skidim.com/partnerwelcome.asp" rel="nofollow - 10% discount. ------------- |
Posted By: 80SN Barnfind
Date Posted: May-16-2012 at 3:35pm
93 Ski, your ASME membership has been revoked. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-16-2012 at 3:51pm
 Yes, The above has been bothering me as well. John, Fill us in some on your background. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: May-17-2012 at 12:03am
You really aren't wasting $400 on it. By the time you buy a coupler, have it reamed for ID & faced, you will have $200 into an old shaft. Good luck, it's all worth it when you're skiing! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-17-2012 at 8:59am
Plus, the condition of the old shaft isn't known since it was never checked for straightness. You had the vibration problem so it sure could be a problem? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: May-17-2012 at 11:52pm
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Fringe benefit, a scrap shaft makes a great pry bar! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 93 Ski Nautique
Date Posted: May-18-2012 at 2:39am
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You guys are amazing. You really know these boats! I haven't been a member of ASME for a while, but I got a kick out of the comment! I've been in SAE for a while, that's more my thing now. I wish I had researched my efforts on here more before I began this project, but at least I did before I ran the boat and damaged the transmission bearings, etc... I probably didn't need to even do the cutlass bearing, the only time it made a noise/vibration was making tight left turns to get back in the course when guys had the throttle hammered and the Perfect Pass was on. With 914 hours I thought it couldn't hurt and I didn't think I could really judge the condition of the bearing until I pulled the shaft. The boat has always been incredibly smooth and a real joy. After talking with SkiDim I decided to "try" to see if a new OEM coupler will work with it. I will heat it up, see if it slides on, and then check all the tolerances all the way around as shown in the video. If my anything doesn't mate perfectly, or indicate alignment within tolerance, I will bail completely on the OE shaft and order an ARE one. Thanks again guys, you probably saved me from a destroyed trans bearing or more. When I mentioned I'm an ME it ws in reference to my gut feeling regarding the mating surfaces. They were very close, but I didn't like it. That's when I queried in here and was very happy to find so much info! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-18-2012 at 9:09am
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John, A tight turn with power ether to port or starboard will cause vibration in any hull due to all the turbulence down there. As long as you have the shaft out, you might as well set it in some V blocks and get the dial indicator out. When you get the coupling, I'd be curious as to what the bore measures - the same with the old shaft. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: May-18-2012 at 11:15am
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Look up our discussions on prop installations as well. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: May-18-2012 at 11:21am
Correction- this vibration/growl is only "normal" with certain props. Let me guess- you have a stock 3-blade Federal or OJ on that boat? Ive seen that hull howl like a banshee in hard left hand turn arounds. A new Acme would eliminate it (and improve overall performance a great deal as well). ------------- |
Posted By: 93 Ski Nautique
Date Posted: May-18-2012 at 6:40pm
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Yes, it's a 3 blade OJ. It really only makes a noise when guys leave too much throttle on in the turns with the Perfect Pass set. I normally like to drop at each end anyways and then you don't notice anything. I will check the shaft and everything along the way. New coupler just showed up, and it fits perfectly with the trans shaft piece. That's a good thing and that was my first red flag. I may not be able to replace everything until next week, but I've got my fingers crossed.. Thanks again for all your help!! You guys really know these boats! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-18-2012 at 7:00pm
Did you get the micrometer out and measure? What's "perfect"? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 93 Ski Nautique
Date Posted: May-18-2012 at 7:23pm
I didn't measure it yet, and I'm not sure how you could. I don't think a piece of paper would slide between the 2 faces anywhere. 
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-18-2012 at 9:26pm
John, I'm talking the heat shrink fit between the shaft and coupling. You said you received the coupling and it "fits"??????
Have you read this thread? http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25700&title=coupler-removal-and-install" rel="nofollow - coupling removal and install If not heat shrunk, you WILL have a problem!!! A piece of paper is around .002" so in theory you could use it for the shaft alignment since you want no more than .003" Hopefully you have a set of feeler gauges. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21279&title=shaft-strut-alignment-video" rel="nofollow - Have you seen this video? If not, I think you had better. You had better get back on track with your engineering skills! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 93 Ski Nautique
Date Posted: May-18-2012 at 10:21pm
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Yea, I only had a minute and the only thing I did was see how the coupler and transmission interfaced. Unlike my original coupler after I mistakenly thought I could tap that onto the shaft, this coupler and the transmission faces are flush with each other all the way around. I will break out the feeler gauges and everything before I assemble everything, but it "looked" good when I eyeballed it. I didn't realize a piece of paper is .001.. I will watch those videos again before I think about assembling anything. Thanks again guys! |
Posted By: 93 Ski Nautique
Date Posted: May-18-2012 at 10:23pm
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Make that .002 on the paper
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Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-19-2012 at 11:43am
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i was with a company called inline machining all week optically aligning shafts, pretty slick tools these guys use, but, anyways, they get on Nuc subs and have to align them to 20 millionths of an inch, so the enemy doesnt detect any vibrations...the guy says it takes him a couple weeks and he explained how they measure that small of a number and its pretty complicated...so I guess .002 aint to bad to do. anyways, the uppers kept quiet because when we put the boat in the water we lost .250 of sag on one side and .150 on the other...the engines were originally up .300 on blocks (dry land) but to obtain a perfect alignment the boat should be in the water for at least 24 hours, any boat ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-19-2012 at 11:46am
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for all intense purposes though, ski boats are short and rigid and can be done on the trailer, but, if at all possible the finals should be done in the water ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: May-19-2012 at 10:42pm
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Wonder if something like this would help by spraying the shaft right before attempting to slide on the hot coupler. Can states cools down to -60*. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/CRC-Freeze-Spray-4YPK4?cm_sp=IO-_-IDP-_-RR_VTV70300505&cm_vc=IDPRRZ1" rel="nofollow - http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/CRC-Freeze-Spray-4YPK4?cm_sp=IO-_-IDP-_-RR_VTV70300505&cm_vc=IDPRRZ1 |
Posted By: 93 Ski Nautique
Date Posted: June-01-2012 at 3:25am
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Well, everything you guys said was right on. I cut out the new cutlass bearing, and ordered a another new one (because I was concerned that I damaged the first one installing it). I froze that (2 piece) and it went in most of the way and pulled in the rest of the way with the threaded rod while it was still cold. I tried to check the shaft for trueness while it was out, appeared to be within .001 one or so, honestly, probably within the error on the micrometer I was using. The new coupler was reading .998 and the shaft .999. I heated the coupler to 500 for 2 hours, hustled it out to the boat, and it slid right on the shaft. The alignment is within .003 to the best I can measure. I bolted everything up tonight and I'm hoping for the best. The more I think about all the efforts to align and stut, trans, etc., and then I wonder how much the engine must move around under load? Thanks again for all your help! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-01-2012 at 8:57am
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John, It's great when things go as planned. Most of the time they don't! Regarding the engine moving, yes, there is flex in the hull. Getting the alignment as close as possible limits misalignment to be equal in all directions. With a misalignment in one direction, that direction is where all the stress is on the shaft and trans. You're cool as long as you got it down to the .003" mark. The alignment can be frustrating at times! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: turningpoint84
Date Posted: November-22-2012 at 7:48pm
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I'm 28 and after i finished doing this, i thought my back was going to break. Cudos to you old people that have done this haha. Anywho, shaft off, rudder off, strut off, prop off. Who wants to buy them? haha. ------------- Proud 1968 mustang owner and now http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6454&sort=&pagenum1" rel="nofollow - 1970 Mustang |
Posted By: ThatNautiqueGuy
Date Posted: December-10-2012 at 10:13pm
| Wow... this is a life saver. I have been out in my boat for the past couple of hours scratching my head once I got to the all intensive "removing the coupler" part. Like the man above I started using a harmonic balancer puller but there is much room and it just didn't feel right. Learning from my past experiences in mechanics I realized that means stop or pay the consequences in blood or $$. After reading all that I have decided to go wait until tax time and go with the A.R.E. system... or perhaps the split coupler. I don't want to deal with walking through my house with a 500 degree piece of hot brass then dodge 4 kids... run outside with it being 30 degrees... kick my dog out of the way... shoulder through the shop just to burn my new carpet or all the way through the hull of the boat. This is highly educational.. thank you for saving me from crying into the night foot fungus! |
Posted By: T_Bone
Date Posted: May-08-2018 at 11:52pm
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Old thread, but some great information in here. I have started the process of going through my drive system to figure out what is wrong. On my 2000 Super Air PCM 350. It started with replacing the stuffing, because it was dripping too much. After replacing I couldn't get the packing nut to not be hot even with water constantly streaming in. Upon further investigation it looks like something is bent/miss-aligned. I am thinking the strut is off a bit. the driveshaft seems okay as far as straightness goes. Will know for sure when I get it off and check it thoroughly. My main question right now is: 1. How are you guys handling the coupler when it is 500+ degrees? Do you bolt it to the drive first? or get it slipped on the shaft first? I imagine if you took the time to bolt it to the drive side first it wouldn't be hot enough to slip onto the shaft. Some direction and insight would be great. Hopefully some of you still frequent this forum that have done this before, maybe a few times. My other option is to go with the double taper ARE system, which if my shaft is straight, or fixable isn't a great economical option. But might be worth the hassle of not dealing with a burning hot coupler under the vdrive? |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-09-2018 at 12:07am
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My 95 vdrive has a split coupler,I take it yours does not? I don't know how you would even work on getting a 500 degree coupler on in that restricted area,but it needs to go on the shaft first. If I ever have to take off my other DD's couplers it's going back on with a tapered one. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: T_Bone
Date Posted: May-09-2018 at 12:33am
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I believe it has a split coupler. Two bolts going through it perpendicular to the shaft? Even with that it took quite an amount of force to drive it out of the coupler. I had to make a shaft pusher. Maybe once I clean up the coupler it will go back in better? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-09-2018 at 6:55am
TJ, On a spit coupling, once it's on the bench, you can typically "open" it up some by driving something like a screwdriver into the split(s).
Yes, keep in mind alignment always starts at the strut. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: T_Bone
Date Posted: May-09-2018 at 10:03pm
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Looks like I will probably have to do that. Even with it off of the boat, I can't reasonable get the coupling on the shaft more than 1/3 of the way. When I get the driveshaft back I will open up the coupling a little, and make sure it goes on the shaft without any unreasonable force, off the boat; because if not, there is no way I will be getting it on while on the boat. Thanks for the help and direction. I'm sure I'll run into something else before this is all back together properly. Picture of coupling for reference. 
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Posted By: T_Bone
Date Posted: May-11-2018 at 7:27pm
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Got all of the parts sorted. Drive shaft had a .070 bow in it, luckily I work right down the street from the prop shop, and they were able to straighten it. Also got new strut bearings from them, and got them installed last night. One thing I am having a hard time finding out for sure is what to do at the vdrive when aligning. I am working on getting the rough adjustment done right now with the shaft coupling centered on the vdrive coupling, while being centered through the log. By making sure the side-to-side, and up-down play is equal on both sides. As is ken gibbons how to notes an aligning a inboard shaft. In all the how to's I've seen there is no mention of loosening any bolts at the vdrive. I assume you would have to, to allow it to move with the engine adjustments. Maybe not for a very small amount, but mine seems off quite a bit. As of right now the engine/vdrive need to go about an 1/8 to port. I've loosened the nuts on the bottom side of the vdrive mounts, which are slotted port/starboard, so hopefully when I go to shove the motor around it will follow. I need a bigger 2x4 or something as I couldn't get it to move much. A link to a better how-to for a vdrive would be great, if anyone has seen a one. |
Posted By: drekeith
Date Posted: April-09-2019 at 6:00pm
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I realize this is an old post so am not sure it will be seen. However, the slide hammer part scares me. I successfully removed my shaft from the coupler with the bolts method. However, I first tried to slide hammer method for a while with my bent up strut (before I did some research on these forums and found this ingenious bolt method). So, I have not reinstalled my coupler and all yet because I have been through nightmare trying to replace a bent strut. I hope I have that solved but that is TBD as well. Anyway, this is a 94 SN with a PCM 1.23: to 1 tranny. My question is…Is there a chance I may have damaged tranny with the beating and banging from slide hammering it and if so, how would I really know…….until it goes out? Reading on other post it appears the V drives are more subject to damage by a slide hammer but I don’t know enough to understand that. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks! ------------- KD |
Posted By: Travis Eacret
Date Posted: April-28-2020 at 12:02am
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After pressing the shaft out of the coupler I sanded both as described in the original post and now the coupler slides on cold, no heat required. Did I sand to much or will this be ok? I didn’t take to much of the shaft but The inside of the coupler had a fair amount of corrosion I removed. ------------- 1995 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: April-28-2020 at 3:57am
The coupler is designed as an “interference fit”. That means that you should NOT be able to slide the coupler onto the shaft by hand. I’m assuming your shaft is not a double taper shaft. Your shaft or coupler may need to be replaced. Buck Algonquin makes a split coupler that may work as a replacement. You would need to match up the mounting hole pattern, flange diameter and coupler length. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-28-2020 at 8:17am
Travis, Knowing what type of coupling you have is important. A split or taper type are fine to slid on but a straight interference fit isn't. What year boat is it in? Was the corrosion black? If black, then that's typical of fretting caused by misalignment. Welcome to CCfan. Can you post any pictures? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Travis Eacret
Date Posted: April-28-2020 at 4:34pm
   I own a 1995 Sport Nautique and the coupling looks like it was in good shape just rusty on the inside. As you can see I have sanded it as clean as I could with emory cloth. When I took the coupler apart from the transmission the alignment seemed perfect, the boat never ran with any sort of vibration. The coupler didn't move up, down, left or right once I pulled the bolts out. I did have to give it a couple of gentle taps with a rubber mallet to break it loose. Although after pressing in the new strut bearing is seems to be off to the port side by a little. ------------- 1995 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-28-2020 at 4:39pm
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Travis, That is a solid coupling and the fit to the shaft is a heat shrink/interference fit. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Travis Eacret
Date Posted: April-28-2020 at 6:12pm
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I measured the drive shaft where the coupler fits and it's between 0.998 and 0.999 (consistent with the rest of the shaft), but the ID of the coupler is from 1.003" to 1.004" which is a tolerance of .004" to .006" allowing the coupler to be installed on the shaft with no heat. This might be a stupid question but this would be unsafe to install even with the two set screws with machined dimples in the shaft? If yes would a new coupler be sufficient or do I have to buy a whole shaft assembly so they machined to fit together. Sounds like buying a split coupler may also be an option if my current one is unsafe. Thanks. ------------- 1995 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-28-2020 at 6:50pm
| Yep, no good... tolerance should measure negative with an interference fit. Pete will remind us by how much. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-28-2020 at 6:57pm
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Travis, What will happen with that loose fit is the coupling and shaft will fret. The fretting will get worse and worse, to the point where it will even pound out the points of the set screws. Those set screws by the way are in there as a safety. I have seen the fit get so bad that when the boat was put in reverse, the prop shaft and prop went back and hit the rudder. A spit coupling is certainly a good option. The other option many have gone to is a double taper shaft. Bothe ends have the taper so both the prop and coupling are solidly held on with the tapers. That option is more money but, the option also makes it easy to remove the coupling easily. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-28-2020 at 8:21pm
The number I've been told ( by an old machinist} is .0005 inches per inch of shaft size for an interference fit when the shaft has a keyway and key for the coupling. (like this shaft for an inboard) I figure there are a variety of numbers used by different people for all kinds of different applications Even a split coupling should be a very light press fit on the shaft, or in other words you don't slide it on with a couple thousandths clearance and expect to be able to tighten the bolts and have it hold very good. This is from a guy that does his hack jobs in the backyard, maybe a real Machinist like Duane will add some info about this |