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Property Lines/Neighbors

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Printed Date: March-19-2024 at 12:15am


Topic: Property Lines/Neighbors
Posted By: dochockey
Subject: Property Lines/Neighbors
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 9:43am
Well where do I start? I don't know how many of you out there have had problems with the neighbors and property lines but mine every year thinks their property line moves each year
The original stakes are long gone so I called some surveyors and they want up around a $1000 to mark the four corners
Does any one know any short cuts to find property lines?

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1989 Teal Ski Nautique
1967 Mustang
Harris Float
Sunfish



Replies:
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 10:00am
you should be able to get a map yourself from city hall on your property lines, they always start with a known point and measure yourself

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"the things you own will start to own you"


Posted By: levinmark
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 10:10am
I agree with Eric, check with city hall and get a plot map. Even though your stakes are gone, look at your map and roughly locate the boundries, there should be a metal stake or two buried at one of the corners and measure from there

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levin


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 10:10am
Kirk,
Getting a surveyor in is your only choice. It sounds like one hasn't been done in quite some time so it's not a bad idea. Besides convincing your neighbor, you should have a current one just incase of a sale or sometimes banks like to see them.The $1000 doesn't sound out of line. Costs depend on how far back/over they need to go to pick up a decent benchmark. This is especially true for land that's never been subdivided. Ask them to put some steel stakes in besides the yellow plastic things they use now.

So, how much of your land does your neighbor think he owns??

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64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 10:14am
Originally posted by levinmark levinmark wrote:

I agree with Eric, check with city hall and get a plot map. Even though your stakes are gone, look at your map and roughly locate the boundries, there should be a metal stake or two buried at one of the corners and measure from there

From the sound of things, I do not feel Kirk's neighbor is going to believe him if he marks it off himself! What if the next benchmark is 10 propeties or more over?

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/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 10:32am
See what's on file at the registry of deeds. If it's been surveyed in the past, the survey was likely recorded. If there is one stake nearby and the lots are relatively small and simple in shape, you may be able to do some measuring and get yourself in the ballpark. If the neighbor is disputing the line, a survey is the only choice. Problem is, the new markers in the ground are apt to disappear. When looking for a surveyor, the guy who's done work in that area is apt to give you the best price.

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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 10:58am
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

   When looking for a surveyor, the guy who's done work in that area is apt to give you the best price.

I agree. When I built my shop last summer, I called the same surveyor who my neighbor used a couple years before. The lot corners were marked well but where the shop was on top of the hill there really wasn't a line of site to the corner stakes. Needing to get the shop as close as the zoning would permit to the line, the surveyor came in for $250 and added 3 stakes next to the shop excavation. The plus to this is if a dispute did come up, I used my neighbors surveyor!!   

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64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 11:19am
the easiest solution to abutter problems i have found is go as close to the line boundry and on one side put in bee hives, on the other side put a car trailer with the ugliest piece of junk car you can find on it break out the glass paint it with graffiti and the problem seem to resolve themselves. works even better when they are trying to sell the property , they will agree to anything to make those things go away.

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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go


Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 11:31am
A professional survey is the only way to go. Line of site means nothing today with GPS surveying equipment. I agree that if you can find a surveyor who has recently worked in the area, his price will reflect his familiarity with the benchmarks. My neighbor (who is the best neighbor a person could have) had is lot done for $600, which, on paper, took away 12' of my shoreline, which he did not try to reclaim. So I had them do mine for $125 which allowed my to pick up 10' from my peckerhead neighbor on the other side (that house as since burned down, now a vacant lot).
My cottage on the other hand was platted in 1924. The benchmark, some of which are now under water, have all but disappeared. We've been told by a surveyor who worked a lawsuit in the area that the whole subdivision would have to be done and all property owners would have to basically barter for property lines, agree to property lines, and sign quick claim deeds to re-establish new property lines.
Have you tried to find the original pins? It's illegal to move a professional surveyors pins and monuments. You'd be surprised what you can find with an old survey and a metal detector. I have found most of the pins I have looked for when trying to find property lines. I just bought a barn and will be searching for those pins soon.
BTW, where in Michigan are you located.

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Play hard, life's not a trial run.
'85 BFN
'90 BFN



White Lake, Michigan



Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 12:20pm
If you do decide to have the property surveyed try to find a previously done survey and call that company for an update, will make it cheaper.
Typically a sale would require a survey or if unsure the County, City or Village should have one on file from any building permits taken which you should be able to get copies of.

Also have you checked the County web site, may be information available there, the county I reside in has aerial maps with images that date back to the 20's. Check the Zoning section if one exists.


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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt


Posted By: 67425ks
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 1:04pm
spend the bucks and get a survey, then get an underground fence and an angry dog. good fences make good neighbors.


Posted By: Mark Mel
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 3:11pm
I had that issue, the neighbor was cutting my trees. Told her to stop, wait until I get a survey. She didn't. I had to call the tree company to get them to stop. She cleared 20' into my property at some spots. She also pulled the metal pins. Local cop said I could have her arrested for that, not for the trees, that's a civil matter.

Called in a surveyor, he surveyed my land. $1,000. When he ran the stake line up the side she cut down, I went out there and took pictures to show how many trees she cut. Her husband came out, asked what I was thinking. I said, I think I'm not happy, you can clearly see what she did here. I said, I'd like to talk to my lawyer but I'm not going to at this point. I said see those stakes the surveyor put up? They were the wooden stakes with the pink ribbon. I said don't touch them, touch them and I'm calling the lawyer. I said if I hear a chainsaw over hear by this stake line without you asking me, I'm calling the lawyer. I also said I had to pay $1,000 over this BS. He offered to pay for half. I think he got off easy.

Ultimately I have to live next door to these people for who knows how long. So I didn't take it further. But I did keep stressing, I bought these six acres so I wouldn't have to see my neighbors, and now I can sort of see them.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=972&sort=&pagenum=4&yrstart=1976&yrend=1980" rel="nofollow - 1978 Nautique

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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by Mark Mel Mark Mel wrote:

She cleared 20' into my property at some spots.

Mark,
I feel Peter's solution with the bees and old junk cars would fit real nice in that 20'.

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64 X55 Dunphy

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<


Posted By: Mark Mel
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 4:13pm
I thought of all kinds of things like that. Still mad about it and it happened 2 years ago.

When I'm mowing the lawn I think of things like chucking round-up ice cubes into their lawn, ordering some bags of dandelion seeds and blowing them over there etc.

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FBook - www.facebook.com/charliedontsurfct


Posted By: Dave D.
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 4:33pm
Dang Mark, here in my state, tresspassing can put you six feet under. Only a fool would mess with another man's property line, much less cut their trees. As much as I hate fences, there would be a 7.5 foot high deer fence around my whole property if I had neighbors that bold. Sounds like it's time to put up some posted/no tresspasing signs. "Property protected by Smith & Wesson," lol!! That should do the trick. As mentioned earlier, good fences make for good neighbors.

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Dave D.
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5525&sort=&pagenum=4 - '89 Sport Nautique
http://www.golaketravis.com/webcam/ - Lake Travis, Texas!


Posted By: Mark Mel
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 4:42pm
Oh I have a fence. 8' high along the front third of the prop, problem was I didn't run it right on the prop line. I had a nice straight row of big pines that were back a bit from the line I attached the fence to. She was cutting to that in the front. Much farther in toward the back where there wasn't a fence.

The woman's a nut, we live on a shared drive as much as I wanted to escalate the situation, my wife convinced me otherwise.

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Posted By: Dave D.
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 5:07pm
Sounds like it may be time to "out crazy" the crazy neighbor.
I understand wanting to keep the peace though. About 10 years ago I was having trouble with a neighbor who was feeding about 20 feral cats. Her cats started spraying my vehicles and completely ruined one of my vintage convertibles by spraying down the cowl into the vent system. I mentioned it to a crazy friend of mine and told him I could handle the problem, diplomatically, of course. The following Friday afternoon, I was confronting the neighbor about the cat problem when my knucklehead friend drives up and hollers over to us "hey Dave, kill those cats yet?" She nearly fainted. I told her he was only joking. She promised that the cats would not be a problem in the future. She rounded them up, kept them inside, and I never saw them again.



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Dave D.
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5525&sort=&pagenum=4 - '89 Sport Nautique
http://www.golaketravis.com/webcam/ - Lake Travis, Texas!


Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 5:28pm
I have 8 acres and a neighbor that likes to feed feral cats. They like to come on my property to hunt the squirrels and chipmunks and do the happy thing under my shed in the middle of the night.
Took care of the cat’s one at a time with the .22.
Neighbor asked me if I had seen any of the cats they were disappearing I said "Must be the coyotes"
No more cat problem!!


Posted By: Mojo
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by Dave D. Dave D. wrote:

Sounds like it may be time to "out crazy" the crazy neighbor.
I understand wanting to keep the peace though. About 10 years ago I was having trouble with a neighbor who was feeding about 20 feral cats. Her cats started spraying my vehicles and completely ruined one of my vintage convertibles by spraying down the cowl into the vent system. I mentioned it to a crazy friend of mine and told him I could handle the problem, diplomatically, of course. The following Friday afternoon, I was confronting the neighbor about the cat problem when my knucklehead friend drives up and hollers over to us "hey Dave, kill those cats yet?" She nearly fainted. I told her he was only joking. She promised that the cats would not be a problem in the future. She rounded them up, kept them inside, and I never saw them again.



I would have made them into vintage tennis rackets !!!


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05' SV211 TE
73' Martinique
had:96' SNOB
had:76' Nautique
had 77 Tique

       



Posted By: dochockey
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 5:51pm
LMBFAO

Yeah its too bad, He is one of those neighbors that never has any tools, wants to barrow yours and then never return them afterwords. It's sad.

Thanks for all your comments I'm down to $650 now.

I'm in Kalamazoo county, MI.

I will look for the in ground stakes.

I definitely need legal property markings for this neighbor.

My dad is a master bee keeper

As soon as the lines are marked some sort of fence or pricker hedge is going up

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1989 Teal Ski Nautique
1967 Mustang
Harris Float
Sunfish


Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

Took care of the cat’s one at a time with the .22.
Neighbor asked me if I had seen any of the cats they were disappearing


"Lead Poisoning"

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier

62 Classic..
73 Ski Nautique


Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 6:34pm
Funny that this topic pops up right as I am having similar issues. Investor bought the two houses to the left of mine and is trying to either flip or rent them. She had a survey done and was b*tc#en to the guy behind her, who happens to be a friend of mine, that my driveway is partially on her land. My house and the house next door were built in the 40's and have shared a driveway ever since. Now she wants to come in and stir ish up because the property line does not quite run down the middle of the driveways. The surveyor dug up the iron property marker at the bottom of the driveway and left a 1 foot round hole there were he found it. After a week of tripping around it I just filled it back in for her. I am just waiting to see how it pans out. Mrs Cummings would roll over on her grave if she knew that her kids sold the house her husband built to an investor to rent out. Nothing I can really do about it but try to get some people I know to move in. At least my 80lb lab tries to attack her through the fence and barks his head off every time she comes over.

I like the expression that has been quoted here about good fences. Very true!

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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier


Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 6:48pm
My good friend in North Idaho has a saying. "Know your neighbor's name"

Out there people joke about just moving the stakes a few feet a year til you get what you want. I have 25 acres in the mountains and a neighbor on each side that wants to squeeze me a little more in on each side. Not maliciously really, but there has not been a legit survey done in the area in 50+ years. I do not really bitch cause I am not there often and we all agree in general where the lines are.
FWIW, it would cost me about $15k to do a survey on my lot, and several would get markers in the process. Just not worth it in that particular situation.

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Mike N

1968 Mustang







Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 7:19pm
A wise man would do the city hall gig, mark it and let the a-hole neighbor dispute and hire the surveyor, there should be steel pins there as suggested...what do you have to lose? he may agree right off the get go when he sees you marking and measuring...if not you tell him to get his land surveyed....rent or borrow a metal detector to find the pins????

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"the things you own will start to own you"


Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 10:22pm
I like marks idea the roundup .... a good way to be rid of waste oil too..

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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-17-2011 at 11:56pm
It alway seems like the ones who cant even take care of what they have are always crowding over. We live on 12 acres and some neighbors seem to think it's theirs.Every time someone else moves in you have to educate them.My grandparents bought it in the 40's and we had it resurveyed 20 yrs ago. A few years ago the 2 acres next to us were split and sold.Naturally it was surveyed and the lines are in their favor,wonder how that works? We get along fine with our neighbors so it's no problem for now.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: dochockey
Date Posted: May-18-2011 at 4:06am
I was going to pull the trigger on a surveyor? but the wife said to spend the money elsewhere so I'm going to put the money into my boat instead
I'm going to get more creative and put it on their shoulders to pay for a survey   

My philosophy has always been      Love they neighbor but don't get caught   

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1989 Teal Ski Nautique
1967 Mustang
Harris Float
Sunfish


Posted By: Keuka
Date Posted: May-18-2011 at 10:42pm
I don't know how much different Michigan would be from NY. Here any survey map should be filed with the real property office at the county office and they are public record. Your deed should have written description of property and would also reference any surveys. If the corner stakes on the other side are still there, you could pull a chain to the side in question. That should get you pretty close. Keep in mind that survey measurements are on a horizontal plane. If you have a big elevation change from side to side, you need to take that into consideration. The plastic caps used now to mark corners are usually capping a metal pin of some sort. I used 2-3 foot length of rebar when I surveyed.

David

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86 Martinique


Posted By: dochockey
Date Posted: August-22-2012 at 3:07am
well just when I thought things were going good my neighbor on the other side decided to put in some retaining walls, they went on vacation. Their contractor has been driving his bobcat and dumping his piles of sand on our property ! I'm lost for words. Where did respect go? its seems nobody cares any more?

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1989 Teal Ski Nautique
1967 Mustang
Harris Float
Sunfish


Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: August-23-2012 at 8:28pm
You'd better re-think that survey now....   In realestate law, there is such a thing as a hostile take over... if your neighbor improves on your land and you don't do anything about it, he will own it after a certain period of time.    It's called "Adverse Posession". also, if the contractor uses your property as an easment, if you don't request that the easment be on your neighbor's property, the easment can become permanent also.     Yikes... I guess the saying stands that good fences make good neighbors.


Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: August-23-2012 at 8:31pm
you might also check in with your title company ( if you had title insurance) to see what the legal description of your property is and when it was surveyed last.   you might be able to reengage the original surveyor much cheaper than getting a new survey.   Your local realtor might have some ideas for you also.


Posted By: nautique frk
Date Posted: August-27-2012 at 12:59pm
I am a firm beliver in fences !! Keep the idiots out and let them KNOW where your property is !


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-27-2012 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by nautique frk nautique frk wrote:

I am a firm beliver in fences !! Keep the idiots out and let them KNOW where your property is !

This is true except when your neighbor puts a fence up on your property!!!

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54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: nautique frk
Date Posted: August-27-2012 at 7:44pm
That is why you do it first


Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: August-27-2012 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by Dreaming Dreaming wrote:

You'd better re-think that survey now....   In realestate law, there is such a thing as a hostile take over... if your neighbor improves on your land and you don't do anything about it, he will own it after a certain period of time.    It's called "Adverse Posession". also, if the contractor uses your property as an easment, if you don't request that the easment be on your neighbor's property, the easment can become permanent also.     Yikes... I guess the saying stands that good fences make good neighbors.

In Michigan, it takes 15 years of maintaining a property to claim Adverse Possession. And even after that, it is very difficult to uphold.

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Play hard, life's not a trial run.
'85 BFN
'90 BFN



White Lake, Michigan



Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: August-27-2012 at 9:34pm
I think adverse possession law in Washington is only 10 years, and is marked by a 1 time "improvement", or consistant use that has been unrestricted. Trees or fences here are considered improvements, so it's pretty important to make sure that you know where your property is when your neighbors start planting fruit trees, or putting in play structures.


Posted By: Munday
Date Posted: August-27-2012 at 10:47pm
I am for the survey. Bad neighbors are still bad neighbors even behind a good fence. I once paid 5 or 6 kids to pick goat heads and gave them each a bucket. I racked them on some old window screens and dried them. The next spring I put them in a broadcast spreader and applied to neighbors river rock front yard that they drove thru my drive and yard to install.

I think I got about 90% germination!

Cya Bob

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If the only tool you have is a hammer,everything starts to look like a nail.


Posted By: john b
Date Posted: August-27-2012 at 11:51pm
I don't know how long the statute of limitations is, but a contractor once cut down a tree that was about half on a lot I owned at the time. I sued and collected. It was a good experience and I didn't mind the settlement money either.

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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late!



Posted By: P71_CrownVic
Date Posted: August-31-2012 at 1:45am
Originally posted by Dreaming Dreaming wrote:

You'd better re-think that survey now....   In realestate law, there is such a thing as a hostile take over... if your neighbor improves on your land and you don't do anything about it, he will own it after a certain period of time.    It's called "Adverse Posession". also, if the contractor uses your property as an easment, if you don't request that the easment be on your neighbor's property, the easment can become permanent also.     Yikes... I guess the saying stands that good fences make good neighbors.


This is good advice.

My grandma just went through a property line issue with her loud-mouth neighbor at her property in Northern Wisconsin. Waterfront property is highly expensive and worth protecting. You NEVER want to give up an INCH of it. Here is what my grandma was faced with:



As you can see (kinda) the two fence posts represent the property line. If you follow that line into the water, you can see that a large portion of their pier is on my grandma's frontage (including the entire thing at the end). Then, they would park their pontoon boat next to the pier...so the entire pontoon was on her frontage.

Needless to say this didn't fly with her. She first asked them to move it, to which they swore at her and basically told her to buzz off. So, she had that line surveyed. To verify the location of one lot marker they had to find two other lot markers. This cost over $800.00. BUT, once it was done, we had legal proof that they were violating the lot line...and had sufficient right to do this:



It was a lot of money...but Granny is very happy she had the survey done...because now there is a legal record that they are in violation of her lot line...

And sorry for the huge pics...

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Posted By: adamt
Date Posted: September-06-2012 at 3:01am
Start http://www.kalcounty.com/equalization/assess/assessors.pdf" rel="nofollow - here , start clicking links, and you'll be amazed with what can be found about your property. i don't know how old your property is, but with google earth and gps, a lot of exact info can be found just by searching.

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-Adam

1973 Skier


Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: September-06-2012 at 11:07am
Adverse posession probably varies from state to state, but in Maine, if you allow someone to use your property, it can't be taken by adverse possesion. They have to use it against your will.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 9:21pm
NABS..............I have one from hell.lol I had cams placed all around the property... The guy is a strange dude, Married with a kid,, his wife and kid are nice.. He , well lets just say if he steps one foot on my property--- He is going to jail on felony charges... WORD<< TRUTH...

He is a real jerk off, bully type, My brother was about ready to break both his legs and arms...

LOVE MY CAMS........ well worth the money...... PRICELESS... I nailed that C_____________K>>>>SUCKER!


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 9:33pm
If they have metal tube like spikes, driven into the ground?

THEN get a metal detector... I have had the same promlem with my NAB.

He Pulled all the wood markers up after I had it done,,That is only the start of my problems with this FOOL!


Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 10:15pm
this is getting weird

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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go


Posted By: DeepCreekNauti
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 10:25pm
Yes, it will only be the begining. My advice is dont let it consume you. There is 'that guy' on every lake.

Speaking of Cams. Ours has a guy who puts up trail cams to "catch" the neighbors using an old county road runs along his property down to the lake front. Families have used this road since the lake was made. He is just one of those guys where the best part of him is flushed every morning.

For sh*ts and giggles ever few weeks, my brother and I go over and remove the flash cards from the cameras. We take them home and load them up with the internets most god awful and worst REMOVEography. Then we replace them.

He now has cameras watching his cameras now. We get those too.

I cannot even imaging the conversation he has with the police showing them his "evidence" that someone keeps messed with his cameras.







Posted By: john b
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 11:49pm
That is REALLY funny!!!! You made my day and made me laugh quite hard

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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late!



Posted By: Keuka
Date Posted: April-17-2013 at 1:03am
If you have a printed survey map, it will have everything marked and will have a legend of what is in the ground (pipe, pin, nail, etc). Survey map should be filed. In NY you can obtain copies from the real property office at the county clerks office. If you are doing investigative research, you can also get you neighbor's map. It's all public information. When I used to survey, if there was not already a corner marker, we set new ones. What is visible is the little plastic cap with the surveyors name. What you can't see is the 3' length of 1/2" rebar that is driven into the ground. Lake property we always marked at the high water point.

David

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86 Martinique



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