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Trailer help again

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    Posted: June-20-2019 at 12:35am
The new to me 176 is great. Burning out bearings on trailer sucked, trying to find grease seals for the odd sized hubs even worse. Should have grease seals in by Friday and then will have the hubs rebuilt this weekend.

Then in the mean time I was sizing up the swing away tongue install and started looking at the Atwood coupler and brake setup. Trailer has surge drum brakes that seems to work well, but then again I only have one real trip under my belt. Cap is stripped on the master cylinder so that prompted a search for a new cap. Atwood is defunk and no parts are available.

I've got to cut the tongue to install the swingaway kit, cut the brake line and all that good stuff. With my recent luck with this trailer sense purchasing I'm almost willing to bet the master cylinder will crap out during the bleeding process.

All attempts will be made to properly get the current setup working, but ordering new parts and installing them will greatly reduced my already limited time to enjoy the boat. None of of my past boats have had surge brakes,
wondering how "important" to the safety of the general public, my boat and myself is operable surge brakes on this 176 setup? Is it over kill? Tow rig is a 2009 Silverado 1500 with the 5.3l vortex. From what I can tell the boat is 2400lbs, going and guess the trailer is around or less than 1200lbs   Total less than 4000lbs(just guessing)

I live less than 4 miles from the ramp,.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2019 at 1:56am
First, my 78 Nautique never had brakes and I towed it all over the place, I recall two times when a panic stop was needed and that trailer almost pushed me into other cars.
Brakes are good to have.

Next: My 1995 Nautique was in my garage today, I jacked up the trailer and installed a 2" ball on a receiver into the surge break and locked it in place. Where the pin goes through the receiver I put a 15" rod, on the rod on each side of the hitch I add a couple of 10 pound weights from my weight bench.   The weight applies the brakes and allows me to test.
With the axle sitting on jack stands I first check to see if the shoes are adjusted correct.
Next I add the weights to the receiver which applies the brakes.
My pass side applied well but the drivers side tire still spun a little.
Now, I think, probably air in the line.
I bled the brakes, while bleeding I discover the master cylinder does not apply any pressure till the last 1/2" of movement. The hitch moves about 2" total in application but zero brake fluid moved until that last 1/2".   This is an Atwood Brake and welded on.

I searched today to find parts to replace the shock and the master cylinder or parts to rebuild the master cylinder.   Parts can be found but are very expensive. Master Cylinder $130!!! Gasket $27, Rubber boot, $15. So parts are pretty much unobtainable.

Now, I am hoping for advice choosing my new trailer Brake Actuator for drum brakes.

I see the ones from Titan advertised and Demco. They appear to be fine but I am hoping for help with the choice. My actuator will mount to a 3" square tube that comes off the front of my DHM trailer. The old Atwood is welded on, I can weld the new one but I prefer to bolt it on for future replacement. Sitting on the square 3" tube I am afraid the slot to bleed the system will be blocked off by the square channel mounting.

Any advice is appreciated I hope to order parts very soon.
Thanks

Grease seals are easy to find, measure your shaft size, Inside diameter of the Hub and the thickness or width of your old seals.
With these measurements you can look up a seal part number.   National Seals has a good chart I have used many times to match seals to sizes.

I hope we both find answers to get back on the water soon!

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *mtrbtr* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2019 at 2:03am
I would strip them off in your situation for sure.   I had a prostar 190 and pulled it with a half ton no issues. 176 has to be lighter than that one.   I say don’t waste anymore time and money and go skiing.
2006 SV 211 (sold) went to the dark side
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ETALLEN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2019 at 10:29am
checked on the Prostar weight, its about 2400lbs, not including the trailer. The Ski Nautique 176 is right at 2200 give or take. The Prestige Trailer is the variable in this equation.   

The Atwood on my trailer is a bolt on setup, when i had the hubs off the pads and drums look like they have never worked. I am almost positive that the bearings were original because the grease seal had a white paint marker line that went across it and onto the Hub( almost like a anti tamper mark and or visual inspection mark at the time of manufacturing).

I have no doubt the truck can pull and stop the trailer/boat combo. it pulled and stopped fine with no pushing when braking all the way back from the previous owner location (160miles).

I have friends who all have legit ski boats-1986 2001, 1998 Moomba Outback, and a Stars and Stripes MC. out of those 3 boats only the 2001 has brakes(new dbl axle trailer).

The fold-away tongue is a must, i need to install it to keep the girlfriend off my back about the boats current parking. The brake line is solid all the way to the actuator, and will require some very cautious cutting as it is, replacing the the setup with a non surge brake coupler would speed up the process and allow for more funds to be put into the boat and accessories.
just wanted some opinions about loosing the brake setup
-Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2019 at 11:05am
My 2 cents ...... Install the swing-away coupler for the surge brakes. Cut the brake line and bleed the brakes when done. If they work, go skiing. If they don't work, go skiing. I know it's more money, not much more time, but it's the right way to do it.

If you are in an accident, even one that is absolutely no fault of your own, you will have a trailer which came from the factory with brakes, with brakes still on it. If you don't install a surge brake coupler, you'll have a trailer designed and sold with brakes, which you removed. Can make for a different outcome depending on what the result of the accident is.

I know I may be thinking too much. I certainly trailer 4,000 lb. boat/trailer combos without brakes with no problem, and don't rush to get the brakes fixed, but that's different from stripping the brakes off the trailer.
'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ETALLEN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2019 at 11:21am
63skier- Logical thinking, that is exactly what I needed. i played both scenarios out in my head but for some reason i was doubting my own thought process on the matter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2019 at 11:22am
Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

My 2 cents ...... Install the swing-away coupler for the surge brakes. Cut the brake line and bleed the brakes when done. If they work, go skiing. If they don't work, go skiing. I know it's more money, not much more time, but it's the right way to do it.

If you are in an accident, even one that is absolutely no fault of your own, you will have a trailer which came from the factory with brakes, with brakes still on it. If you don't install a surge brake coupler, you'll have a trailer designed and sold with brakes, which you removed. Can make for a different outcome depending on what the result of the accident is.

^^^^What he said^^^^
In Bold is the key
This would be a gift for the other parties insurance company/attorney let alone possible denial of claim by your company.
Unfortunately in this day and age you have to think defensively and CYA at all times.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2019 at 11:53am
I don’t recall anyone having major issues sourcing bearings and seals for a prestige Nautique trailer.

You will need to modify the hard steel brake line to a flexible section with even possibly a disconnect at the hinge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ETALLEN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2019 at 1:14pm
Didn't have any problem sourcing bearings, just the grease seals. Checked everywhere locally for the correct seal (or what was on it when it went bad)AD7131Eo.    Had to have a local shop order a close match in. Should be here
Friday, worse case scenario Saturday morning.

Yeah I'm working on having a flex line made for the swing away as I type this. What I'm hoping to do is cut through the tongue without hitting the brake line so I can flare it properly then drill a hole on top of the of the trailer frame and up and out with the flex line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2019 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

I don’t recall anyone having major issues sourcing bearings and seals for a prestige Nautique trailer. .


How to identify trailer bearings and seals.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ETALLEN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2019 at 2:00am
Tonight was productive.
I was able to take the brake line off at the master cylinder and again at the T on the axle and pull the whole line back 22" to aid in cutting the tongue. Cut the tongue and drilled holes for the Fulton swing away system along with new holes for the new safety chains and brake line relocation. Brake line was cut flared properly.

For anyone interested in using the swing away hinge be aware that the bolts provided in the kit have a flange. Most trailers shouldn't have a problem but mine is made out of 1/4" making the nuts unusable because the flange on the nut hits the inside of the box making it not possible to tighten up. Sense I had talked to Fulton before hand I was aware of the issue and had sourced standard nuts before hand.

A friend who is a airplane mechanic came by with a assortment of o-rings and seals and proceeded to take the master cylinder apart. After a hour with a Dremel and a small.wire wheel he had the internals cleaned and the piston rebuilt, pumping fluid. Looks like all I might need is a boot for the ram and a cap.

If everything goes as planned I will bleed the lines tomorrow, attempt to adjust the brakes and hopefully wrap this project up
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