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Trick ski options

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Grand Poobah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-21-2017 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by storm34 storm34 wrote:



The whole "new vs old" conversation is really interesting but it's really up to the personal goals of the skier. I really struggled to progress in the course for the last 4-5 years. After getting some coaching from Chris Parrish and changing my technique things started to take-off. My theory was to straighten out the guy riding the ski first, then add a new ski if I decided to stick with it.   Last year I purchased my first new tournament ski and have made huge strides.

Point is - my goal was to be competitive in local tournaments so the investment is worth it for me. It's certainly helped me get to my max speed and shorten the rope.

If someone wants to free-ski or ride a lap around a cove/lake one a week then buy something used for a lot less $$$....more money for beer and gas.


Well put. My theory with slalom skis these days is that as soon as you start to get serious in the course you need to get on the best new or used ski you can afford. Slalom ski price structure is more about cost to build at small quantities vs. "skill level" these days. E.g. it costs a grand to make a new Goode. They sell for two grand. They take 2 weeks to make by hand. You will see them under ALL levels of course skiers. D3 has 7 employees. Each ski is made by hand in the US. They are expensive. They don't make cheap skis, they make GREAT skis for all levels. And so on. It's like buying a nice guitar or a nice trap gun or a nice car. There is no downside. If my kid got into guitar I'd give them a nice guitar ASAP. They wouldn't be banging around on some Sears Harmony guitar very long.

My wife struggled in the course on several "mid level" skis until she got a used 2015 Lithium Vapor (~350 bucks maybe but 1400 new) and saw immediate improvement. Runs the course like crazy now and loves every minute of it. I see this repeatedly.

We live in AMAZING time to be a course skier equipment-wise. Anything within the last 5-7 years is going to be much easier to ride and learn the course on for ALL skill levels. Ditch the CDX, the Phantom, the Truth, and the Monza, etc. as well as any other crap from that era. These were finnicky old fiber+carbon with aluminum top skis that maybe did require an expert to ride (?) but won't help anyone at any level these days. Make them into a dock chair and be done with it. You won't see ANY kids at tournaments with garage sale-level equipment or fiberglass skis even if they are skiing 15 of at 24.9mph. They will be on something graphite and probably have a hardshell binding (gasp).

There really is no valid argument that old outdated equipment is fine at any level approaching serious-about-the-sport these days. The new-ish stuff is just too good.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-21-2017 at 4:41pm
Someone probably said the same thing about the 20# EP comp plastic skis from like 1980.

It didn't take god given talent or expert status to slalom ski 10 years ago. Everything changes except how hard and long you work at it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-21-2017 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Any ski with rails will track straight.
Any ski with a hard edge will cut.
Ankle support will yield the most improvement in control.

I don't think anyone is saying buying a competition trick ski is a bad idea where as in slalom it will hinder you. 180s and 360s aren't even scratching the surface of real trick ski potential. A crappy ski with a good binding will get you pretty far.


Completely agree....I just can't get myself to replace those super sweet adjustable bindings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Netdewt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-27-2017 at 3:08pm
I haven't had the back strength, driver with necessary skills, or course access to really have a chance to get into slalom. I wish I did.

If I owned a fancy boat with ballasts and surf gates I'd probably try that. I'm not sure because it isn't an option.

Part of the reason I want to try trick is that my boat is not made for wakeboarding and slalom needs course and driver access. My boat works perfectly fine for my abilities in wakeboarding but I am using it for something it was not meant to do.

So, I'm not opposed at all to using the newest tech, but I think this debate is a version of the debate over owning a new boat vs. old boat, and I find that interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2017 at 8:16am
Originally posted by Netdewt Netdewt wrote:

I haven't had the back strength, driver with necessary skills, or course access to really have a chance to get into slalom. I wish I did.

my boat is not made for wakeboarding and slalom needs course and driver access. My boat works perfectly fine for my abilities in wakeboarding but I am using it for something it was not meant to do.


Huh What??????
What kind of excuse is that man?

You DON'T need a course to slalom ski,
You can teach ANYONE to drive the boat who wants to learn. I'm teaching my girlfriend how to drive ( who has ZERO experience pulling a skier) the 88' and the 72 Mustang and I slalom behind both and she's doing a great job.
The 2001 hull empty throws a nice wake for boarding and you don't need a huge wake to throw inverts. I've wakeboarded behind a loaded 2001 hull that had a better wake than some Air Nautiques. Heck Shaun Murray was throwing inverts behind Marty's Skylark.



"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Netdewt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2017 at 9:50am
Not supposed to be an excuse. Just explaining (to myself?) my reason for becoming interested in trick skiing.

It's not that I never slalom, it's more difficult to find the right conditions in my experience. My wife does not like driving the boat 30mph, and she is getting used to it, but it's taking time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2017 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Morfoot Morfoot wrote:

Originally posted by Netdewt Netdewt wrote:

   


I'm teaching my girlfriend how to drive ( who has ZERO experience pulling a skier) the 88' and the 72 Mustang and I slalom behind both and she's doing a great job.




Tim,

I am glad to hear that Kim is progressing very well with her boat driving.

Donald
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swatkinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2017 at 2:32pm
Maybe I need to post on a separate thread, but figured I'd at least start it here since it's sort of related.

Picked up the following at a garage sale this weekend:

Obrien World Team Comp 66"
Cut n Jump slalom from a combo
Pair of Connelly Pro Trick Skis
Paid $20 for all 4 skis. Selling the Obrien and Cut n Jump on Thursday for $35 (for both)

This deal is working out pretty good, but all of mine certainly don't work out this well.

Skied the tricks this weekend and it's been awhile. A really long while.

Never was very good at tricks. Could not do surface turns. Any tips? The couple of 180s I tried, ended up with me losing one of the tricks (got caught mid way thru the turn)

Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2017 at 3:12pm
Nice haul. Was the WTC one of these?



If so, I would have been disappointed that I didnt get to you first. I wouldnt mind having one, just for my nostalgia collection. (I know, I know, everything I own is in the nostalgia collection. Hardee har har) I had two back in the early 80s, one got stolen and the other I stupidly left on a public dock.    So, If ever any one sees an inexpensive one around, let me know. There is one on ebay right now for very reasonable, but it doesnt say anything about willing to ship.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2017 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Swatkinz Swatkinz wrote:

. Any tips? The couple of 180s I tried, ended up with me losing one of the tricks (got caught mid way thru the turn)



I'm no expert, and I sure others will be along to really drive that point home more ways than not, but here are a few thoughts.

1. Not necessary, but a 15 inch handle helps on the handle pass. I got by for a million years just fine with a 12 inch, but I would think the 15 would make life easier.

2. Dry land practice the handle pass. with it tied to a tree or whatever.

3. A little tug on the handle before you start your turn to give you a little slack in the rope.

4. Crouch down a bit, Knees bent. Handle tight into waist, If it gets away from you, its gone.

5. When rotating to backwards, knees bent, bent at the waist, torso almost horizontal, head up. Wrists on your butt (some might argue that)

You say a ski hangs up in the turn. I am not sure how to address that. I know the guy that first taught me wanted me to master a side slide before a full 180 turn. I couldnt really get it and moved on to the turn, but he probably was making a good point. The key to that problem may be consciously leaning away from the boat going into the turn which would tend to aim the leading edge up a bit. Will also tend to have you fall out the rear too, but the right balance will come after a couple tries. Well, that's the rookie's input, I am sure Joel or HW or someone else will come along and have some other thoughts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swatkinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2017 at 3:47pm
It was that O'Brien WTC
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swatkinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2017 at 3:47pm
Thanks for the tips Larry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rebel skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2017 at 6:02pm
I keep a 72 WTC just like that one around for teaching people to slalom on.

Hotty Toddy lets go skiing!
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