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1993 SN Throttle Friction ?

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Gary S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2015 at 10:57pm
I kinda remember the name,what ever happened to him?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2015 at 11:29am
Originally posted by FredWSauer FredWSauer wrote:

If you have one hand on the wheel and one hand holding the throttle, how do you drink your beer?   



Steer with your knee, like the people on the interstate who are eating lunch while driving.
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FredWSauer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2015 at 11:54am
Thanks to all for the chit-chat.
My little 90 merc outboard controller will let me run hands off and not loose throttle position. That is how all boats have been that I have owned or driven. My question to this pool of experts was if the 93 SN had a friction screw or adjustment. My 93 SN will slow rather quickly when you let go of the throttle. If I am running at 36 mph and reach up to grab me beer before I can get a sip, the boat will be at 20 mph.   I saw the comment about the throttle spring and will look at that.
- FWS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2015 at 12:27pm
The correlation between the shifting and throttle characteristics of an outboard and a velvet drive inboard are two completely different animals and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same thread.
Apples and oranges.
When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2015 at 2:02pm
I'd be interested to hear from someone with tournament experience how the boats are supposed to be set up. I will say for cruising around and drinking a beverage, the loose set up is not as good as one that sticks, both throttle and steering wheel, but for actively driving it is better and more fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2015 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by backfoot100 backfoot100 wrote:

The correlation between the shifting and throttle characteristics of an outboard and a velvet drive inboard are two completely different animals and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same thread.
Apples and oranges.


Sorry to disagree Eddie,you use one lever it puts whatever transmission in gear and as you move that lever it opens the throttle,the control not caring what it's connected to.
Here is the opening paragraph in the MV3 instructions-
The Morse MV-3 Control is designed to provide convenient, one hand,
single lever operation of shift and throttle for most popular outboards,
sport jets, inboards equipped with hydraulic reverse gears and Berkeley
or similar jet pumps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2015 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Originally posted by backfoot100 backfoot100 wrote:

The correlation between the shifting and throttle characteristics of an outboard and a velvet drive inboard are two completely different animals and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same thread.
Apples and oranges.


Sorry to disagree Eddie,you use one lever it puts whatever transmission in gear and as you move that lever it opens the throttle,the control not caring what it's connected to.
Here is the opening paragraph in the MV3 instructions-
The Morse MV-3 Control is designed to provide convenient, one hand,
single lever operation of shift and throttle for most popular outboards,
sport jets, inboards equipped with hydraulic reverse gears and Berkeley
or similar jet pumps.


+1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2015 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Originally posted by backfoot100 backfoot100 wrote:

The correlation between the shifting and throttle characteristics of an outboard and a velvet drive inboard are two completely different animals and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same thread.
Apples and oranges.


Sorry to disagree Eddie,you use one lever it puts whatever transmission in gear and as you move that lever it opens the throttle,the control not caring what it's connected to.
Here is the opening paragraph in the MV3 instructions-
The Morse MV-3 Control is designed to provide convenient, one hand,
single lever operation of shift and throttle for most popular outboards,
sport jets, inboards equipped with hydraulic reverse gears and Berkeley
or similar jet pumps.


+1


I wasn't talking about the engineered physical operation of outboard throttle controls. I've driven single, twin and triple rig outboards. Every one you've had to stab it into gear to keep it from grinding gears. They're hard to shift and have considerably more friction running all the way through the RPM range then any velvet drive inboard I've ever driven.
That's what I was getting at..
Spend a day behind the wheel driving a figure eight barefoot tournament with a world class outboard barefoot boat and you'll find out really quick that the controls pretty much suck compared to our boats. There is no comparison. Apples and Oranges.

I'm sure that the new drive-by-wire rigs have to be considerably smoother but I haven't had the pleasure as of yet.

When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2015 at 11:41pm
But the comments are of the throttle staying in position after it has been shifted. You could, after either one has been shifted into gear physically disconnect the shift cable and the results would be the same. My comment was merely why would a 300 hp outboard's throttle stay where set and have a friction control and a 300 hp inboards return if it were for safety? No returns on these bad boys
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2015 at 7:55am
Eddie I would agree that historically you always had to kind of jam an outboard into gear with unpleasant sounds, my aunt had a Force that was absolutely rediculous, and the Evinrude on my brothers Sutphen took considerable persuasion.

However, times have changed. Having spent some time recently running a 2015 Yamaha with Yamaha throttle assembly, I would say it was the smoothest shifting boat, of any type, that I have ever driven, bar none.....unbelievable, smooth as silk. The downside was it was so quiet, virtually silent, that I once almost tried to start it while it was already running. ..

LPSL save lives...and apparently almost starters as well....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2015 at 8:00am
PS: I was also surprised to find the Yamaha setup had no pin so no ability to rev in neutral, apparently they are so reliable there is no need.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2015 at 12:45pm
Again, I have to respectfully disagree with you Gary about the safety aspect.

Our boats were designed for a sole purpose. Pulling a skier. They were engineered from day one to be fitted with an inboard. Every one of us pretty much agree that our boats suck in rough water, they suck for space, they suck for getting around the cockpit, they suck for comfort. But they do one thing better than any other boat.....pulling a skier. Ski boats have evolved to provide more space, or comfort or rough water riding than another but in virtually every case, that robs from Peter to pay Paul and ultimately the skier suffers. There isn't a person on this site who can disagree that a closed bow tournament boat still, without question, provides the finest wake, tracking and performance for a skier. Not a wakeboarder or tuber or sky skier or show skier or even a barefooter. All of those skiing regimens evolved from the original intended purpose. Pulling a skier.
The only engineering incorporated into an outboard is to propel a hull through the water. Any hull and any type of water for virtually any purpose. These engines and their controls were never designed purely for the purpose of pulling a skier.

My boat unquestionably is the ultimate tool for pulling a skier. I can shift it with one finger either forward or reverse. I can pull a skier out of the hole with my arm resting on a very comfortable rest and nothing more than my thumb on the throttle. During the run I can throttle up by more thumb pressure or releasing thumb pressure lets you slow down instantly. How can you not consider that a huge safety aspect? I'm providing the best, safest pull for my skier.
I don't care about why or how it doesn't do what an outboard does or God forbid, that I can't drink a beer while driving. Should we realty get into that little safety debate?????.

If drinking a beer while driving is so damn paramount, buy an outboard. If you want a pure skiing machine, there is nothing on this planet that compares to our boats. I've pretty much on every response here. Apples and oranges. No comparison.

When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2015 at 5:29pm
There are plenty of outboards that use the same Morse control that our inboards do. I was in a mid 90's Flightcraft Barefooter (ob) this summer that was so equipped. Still shifted lousy, but that's not the controls fault. No idea if it held speed without maintaining pressure on the throttle. Like an inboard, I am sure that depends on the connections and other features at the carb/engine end. Like an inboard, I suspect nothing else in the path features a return spring.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FredWSauer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2015 at 5:53pm
WOW! If this thread is still alive next spring I will video tape the controls and see what we think. The beer comment was an analogy. If I have a hand on the wheel during a turn pulling a skier, tube, etc. and have to let go of the throttle for a second 'cause I turned into a wake, hmm wasnt' watching everything, and got a bump and had to grab the side of the boat for a second, burmmmmmm the boat slows down more then just a trickle or a bit. Hey, I agree with the boat SN is a tool for pulling skiers. Best boat, best wake, best.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2015 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Who's the boat dr?

Originally posted by gdenkman gdenkman wrote:

Boat Dr. is Billy Sutton

Greg,
You haven't been spending much time with us have you?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2015 at 8:40pm
Eddie: My mistake, I thought we were just talking about throttle mechanisms on this thread not ski boat attributes; in which i might add hull design plays as much or more of an important role in the ideal wake than the manner of propulsion....

Speaking for all us bastard stepchildren on the site who have and prefer a deep V, anytime you want to ride in a boat that doesn't "suck" for any or all the reasons that yours apparently does, just let me know...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-28-2015 at 10:51am
Sorry Jeff, I answered from my phone and the brain was definitely moving faster then my fingers so I didn't convey my point as I wanted to.

What I was trying to say is that our boats were designed to pull a skier. First and foremost. I can't ever remember driving a DD inboard that didn't have the throttle return if you let go. I'm saying they were designed to be operated that way. For the sake of argument lets just forget about how ski boats have evolved into what they are today to accommodate all the different skiing regimens.

On the flip side I don't ever recall driving an OB boat that had the throttle return if you let go. "Set it and forget like it" like it has been pointed out. I'm saying that OB engines were designed to be used to power a boat through the water and it could care less what the intended use is.

Keeping that in mind, I can give a skier the best pull they deserve and expect with minimal effort and extremely comfortably literally with one finger from the time they say "Hit it" until the end of their run. More or less thumb pressure is all that's needed to make speed adjustments because the throttle returns if I release pressure. I can't do that with a "set it and forget it" throttle without considerable more effort on my part which makes driving more of a challenge. That in turn takes away from my responsibilities as a driver to my skier. Not impossible by any means but certainly more challenging.
Further more, if you're driving a skier purely by "set it and forget it", you aren't giving them a good pull and that can ultimately lead to injury. So I ask again, how is that not a safety factor?

I've done a lot of stupid stuff in my life. I've been hurt and have hurt others because of piss poor driving. I like to think that I've learned from it. When I hear of someone who wants to change an operational aspect that makes driving a skier more challenging (in my personal experience) is just asking to hurt somebody so I have pretty strong feelings about it.
I certainly do apologize to all of you loyal CCFans on my rant.


When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-28-2015 at 11:35am
So bottom line your saying that with N3 a Nautique dealer, in selling me my 95 who's throttle does not return is liable for any accident or injury? You would think a Nautique dealer would check an important safety feature such as that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-28-2015 at 12:19pm
Eddie I was just pointing out your broad use of the phrase "OUR boats were designed to pull a skier". Mine wasn't....

SW wake certainly not ideal, but ok for recreational skiing, and outstanding roomy comfortable ride for general boating under any conditions, what " IT"was designed for, and why we got it..... plus I've got another that although also deep V, has a quite decent wake for even a fairly aggressive skier, and as it's only 16'7" with a big 360 v-drive is just a whole lotta fun.....

Both set and forget like every single boat ever driven. Still dumbfounded by this spring return debate, maybe we need to go right to the source and get some input from Art Cozier?

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