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Starting 87 SN Floor/Stinger Repair

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SkiBum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2007 at 7:41am
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

I had my brother mix some foam for me, he mixed 2 half gallons and by the time he handed it to me it was boiling over, he mis understood me, what a frickin mess this stuff made. this does not come off of your skin
   eric


Told you. You must stir for exactly 22 seconds, no more, no less. Kinda like .000" variance on driveshaft alignment. I finished foaming three weeks ago and still have it on my hands.
Bill
http://www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks
www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks 1987 SN Rebuild Project
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2007 at 8:01am
Originally posted by farmer farmer wrote:


As for the tint, all I could find in the references I have is that the tint is just meant as a base that has to be coated over with color.If you think you may have sanded amine blush into the surface,try wet-sanding,then rinse and dry with paper towels.
Farmer


I used 10 gallons of epoxy resin on the stringers and floor without any problem at all. When I put that tint in the mix it looked glossy white when spread across the bilge. Then, turned yellow. Just don't understand.

No matter, I have turned my attention to other parts of the project. Starting the gelcote work now. Also doing a little not quite historically correct front seat work.

Once the primer and 202 get here I'll wrap up the bilge.
Bill
http://www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks
www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks 1987 SN Rebuild Project
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2007 at 7:14am
Bill:

Although I am not sure, I think that is just the nature of epoxy...it yellows. Direct sunlight could be excellerating this process. I think you are ok as far as the amine blush is concerned. Amine blush is something to think about, but not to worry about. If the bondo is stuck now, it will stay stuck. If you want a perfect smooth bilge, your best bet would be to apply white gelcoat. However, you will then have a lot more sanding a polishing to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yak3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2007 at 8:58am
Nice job SkiBum, been away for a while, just got home for the first time in a month, so my boat is still sitting with the floor cut out and half of the new stringers done. Are you going to put one of those aluminum engine cradles in?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2007 at 9:16am
Originally posted by David F David F wrote:

Bill:

... If you want a perfect smooth bilge, your best bet would be to apply white gelcoat. However, you will then have a lot more sanding a polishing to do.


David,

My origional plan put gelcote in the bilge. That is what started the diseaster with the vinyl ester resin. So I ended up back at the Bilgecote option. Life is full of comprimises. I wasted far too many man hours already messing with the bilge.
Bill
http://www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks
www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks 1987 SN Rebuild Project
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2007 at 9:19am
Originally posted by Yak3 Yak3 wrote:

...my boat is still sitting with the floor cut out and half of the new stringers done. Are you going to put one of those aluminum engine cradles in?


I do have an aluminum engine cradle. One of my tasks today is to test fit it back into the boat, mark the areas that need to be trimmed away for a snug but not tight fit, then do a little sanding in prep for priming and painting the bilge. I planned on using a vinyl washing primer on the aluminum then painting the cradle. Not sure if I'll go to that extreme still.

Good luck on your boat. I hate it when I am someplace other than the garage... wish I was working on the boat.

Bill
http://www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks
www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks 1987 SN Rebuild Project
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leo0648 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2007 at 12:07pm
Is there anyway to tell if the amine blush is ocurring? Will it make it so that resin does not stick?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2007 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by leo0648 leo0648 wrote:

Is there anyway to tell if the amine blush is ocurring? Will it make it so that resin does not stick?


I don't know if there is a change in appearance that would indicate the blush. I know that if you are concerned, just get a handful of green scratch pads, several rolls of the disposable blue shop towels, and a bucket. Before applying more epoxy to the previous epoxy, scrub with clean water and the scratch pads. Then wipe dry with the paper towels. Good to go.
Bill
http://www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks
www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks 1987 SN Rebuild Project
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kylem428 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2007 at 10:09pm
Bill, let me tell you again, I know you've heard it, but you are doing an awesome job. I've just gone through this whole post in the last hour and I have been dreading it, but I know this job is likely in the cards for me as I had a soft spot last year under the drivers seat, and we replaced that area along with the carpet. Aside from better judgement, the foam and stringers were/are still saturated and crumbly and we (my dad and I) just covered them up (hoping they might disappear??). Woops. Next winter I graduate from college so I am going to take a few months and use your post as a reference.

I think I speak for many when I say thank you for how meticulous you have been with posting your progress, as well as the work you are doing. You are motivating all of us to strive for the best rather than settling for a half-a**ed job.

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-20-2007 at 5:32am
Bill, its 5 days later and Im still trying to get the foam off of my finger nails, he caught me off guard and i didnt have a chance to put on my GIRLIE gloves (boat doc)...I even tried using a face razor to scrape it off. it is a permanent part of my body
Eric
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-20-2007 at 5:53am
I know you guys are using the 2 part liquid foams that are mixed and then poured into the cavity. Has anyone considered the spray foam kits that come in 2 refrigerant type pressurized containers? They are closed cell and the same weight density but are allot easier and neater to use. They come in sizes ranging from 12 cu. ft. to 605 cu. ft. They also come with several diposable nozzels of two types. One is for spraying and the other is for injecting into clossed cavities.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-20-2007 at 9:03am
kylem428,
Thanks for the praise. I see it as attention to detail. My wife says I am anal. Doesnt matter what you call it, when the boat is finished it will be worth it.

8122,
I never heard of that stuff. I know the spray cans of foam arent the right stuff to use.
Bill
http://www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks
www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks 1987 SN Rebuild Project
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-20-2007 at 11:36am
Bill, There alot of manufacturers of the foam kits. I did a search and found the one I have used quite offen. I typically use it to inject inside a closed cavity for insulating. It is a closed cell poly foam and several densities are available. When injected in a closed cavity it skins over on the outside so you get extra protection from moisture penatration. Take a look at the site below.
http://www.fomo.com/handi-foam-two-component.aspxite

You can use it on your next project boat!!!


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77 Tique

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leo0648 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-20-2007 at 2:43pm
Hey guys, for anyone interested. I found a guy on ebay who is selling engine kits for reverse rotation engines.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200080332234&rd=1,1

What do you guys think about this? I am going to rebuild the engine when I redo the stringers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-20-2007 at 3:46pm
Leo, Kind of a strange place to post this question. But IMHO there's not enough info there to know what you're getting. Lots of variables there, are the rings moly or just plain cast iron, pistons cast, hypereutictic, I'm sure thy're not forged. Bearings sound standard, should be H series Trimetal. IS the timing set double roller with extra key slots for degreing the cam? Compression ratio chart for pistons comparing head cc's. No Cam? What makes the set reverse roataion, just an oil seal?

Not enough info...call, if he can't answer your questions run.. I'd bet it's a pretty standard performance rebuild kit. I'm currently rebuilding mine and I think I'll start a new thread listing the parts I'm using, I'm sure there will be some feedback on my selections. Curious to see what some of the gurus here think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-20-2007 at 5:28pm






Couple of things going on here. First, only a few people would be able to appreciate how difficult it was to produce these photos. It certainly took a ton of man hours. In fact, I would estimate as many as forty hours spent in the bilge.

Also, the other day I did a test fit on the engine cradle. Turns out I built up so much gla$$ on the floor and filler on the bilge that it actually increased the stringer height by 1/4" to 3/8". I had to cut away the portion of the floor over top of the engine cradle. Then I ginded down the build up and fixed the injury with epoxy.

In the background on the third picture you can see where I applied gelcote. I have lots of practice sanding. Guess I'll get more now.

Good news, the engine cradle fits nicely now. Also, the bilge is smooth and shiny. Bad news, Once I put the engine cradle I have to put that piece of floor back without having resin run into the bilge.

Anyhow, I am working the gelcote from the inside of the boat. Then, I'll do the bottom along where the running gear is installed. That way, I'll be able to put the inside of the boat back together, the running gear, and the engine. Then, I'll be able to work on the gelcote outside the boat.
Bill
http://www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks
www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks 1987 SN Rebuild Project
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leo0648 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-20-2007 at 5:37pm
Wow, that is beautiful.

Excellant job Bill. Watching this project come together like this is amazing. I am sure you are starting to feel pretty excited about your new boat.

81nautique-I thought it was kind of relevant being that this thread is on redoing the interior. Thanks for you input, please do make a post on your rebuild. I would like to see what parts you had in mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2007 at 4:53am
Bill, You know that some boats don't look that good on the outside!! I do know what you went through to get it to look that way. How's the spraying going?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2007 at 5:33am
that looks like my jacuzzi tub, must be a new option, I commend you on the work that you did to the boat and your right only a few (you have to experience it to know) can appreciate the work you put into her.
I would say you have many hours in it to this point
Eric
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2007 at 11:50am
You know what, it does look like a jacuzzi!

The gelcote spraying is going well. The sanding is not. It is very labor intensive. I hope to be quite proficient by the time I work my way to the outside of the boat.

Bill
http://www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks
www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks 1987 SN Rebuild Project
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2007 at 11:58am
Bill, the bilge looks terrific. You making the trip to GL? Id love to see it in person.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 88 Nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2007 at 12:24pm
Bill,
You know better than anyone how to mount the bildge pump. I have to replace mine. Are you going to glue it in or can you screw it into the hump in front of the bildge drain?
My old one was glued but the plastic mount broke so I have to remove the old mount to replace it.
I don't want to do anything until I hear back from you guys.
Thanks
Kurt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2007 at 1:13pm
Bill Looks nice, but you might want to re-think putting the motor in to quickly. If your going to do the outside of the hull, then why not just flip it over and do it, then flip it back finish the rest of the inside and do the graphics, unless your gel-koting them on, that might be a little more challenging upside down.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2007 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by 88 Nautique 88 Nautique wrote:

Bill,
the bildge pump...Are you going to glue it in or can you screw it into the hump in front of the bildge drain?


I am not going to put any screws into the boat unless there is no other choice. I replaced the bilge pump a few seasons back. Scrubbed the mounting location with soap, water, and a green scratch pad. Wiped the area with acetone then used a dab of 5200 marine sealant to stick the base to the hull. That's how I'll do it again.

Bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2007 at 7:05pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

You making the trip to GL? Id love to see it in person.


I hope so.
Bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2007 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

If your going to do the outside of the hull, then why not just flip it over and do it, then flip it back finish the rest of the inside and do the graphics,   


Damn good idea! It would make grinding, sanding, spraying, and sanding much easier.
Bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2007 at 7:22pm
skibum do you have a way to flip the boat over? 79 is right it would be a good idea to flip it over, but only if you have a safe way to do it. BY safe I mean a sure way of doing and not putting yourself or the boat at risk. The project really looks like it coming along nicely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkhallpass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2007 at 8:13pm
Ski Bum's a Drill Sergeant. I'm thinking he will have no problem finding 20 strong young men who will have no problem picking that boat up, flipping it over, and ever so delicatlely placing it on blocks. BKH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2007 at 8:33pm
well in that case I would say go for flipping it over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leo0648 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2007 at 8:53pm
Thats an awesome idea.

What color are you painting the outside?
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