Starting 87 SN Floor/Stinger Repair

I was warned about the "amine blush" before I applied the vinyl ester resin. I sanded the entire surface of the epoxy resin before I applied the vinyl. I will set a fan in the bilge to try to circulate the air. I use a kerosine heater for my primary heat source in the garage. You mentioned that petrolium fueled heaters may be a problem. I have the humidity and the heater.

No worries. The vinyl ester resin is almost cured completely from the engine compartment to the stern. Once the front catches up I'll be sanding sanding then applying a finish so I can set the floor. Just need a few days to let the chemicals work.

Might just give you a call too. Thanks.

I finished sanding the front portion of the bilge that would be covered by the plywood portion of the floor. Applied gla$$ and resin attaching the floor to the stringer where the plywood covers the bilge. Will come back with additional gla$$ and epoxy once the floor cures to make sure that the connection between the plywood floor and the stringers is totally water tight. Used Microfibers with the epoxy to help with bonding. The weights are just keeping downward pressure on the bonds until things cure.

Starting the rest of the floor tomorrow. Will worry about cleaning the remaining vinyl ester gunk out of the bilge later.

Checked out the Louisville, KY boat show today. Great inspiration to get this thing finished.

Gla$$ed the observer side of the floor today. Started with the biaxial mat. Stuff is very thick. Followed that with a layer of epoxy mat which was also quite thick. The final layer of gla$$ was 10oz cloth for a smooth finish. It took two gallons of epoxy resin. Extended each consecutive layer of gla$$ farther up the side of the hull at 2", 4", and 6". Same with the gla$$ that connected to the stringers where it eventually extended the height of the stringer. Spent a long time rolling out the air bubbles. Could feel the heat from the resin curing. The combination of the three gla$$es is quite thick and absorbs plenty of resin.

Plan to do the other side of the floor tomorrow. Then, decide whether or not more layers will be needed. Probably base that decision on how much epoxy and gla$$ I have remaining.

To finish the floor I'll have to use epoxy and fairing compound to fill in low spots. It should turn out just fine. No worries.

The bilge is still a crime scene. Once the floor is finished I'll have to grind the remaining vinyl ester away. Then several applications of epoxy and 3M gla$$ bubbles followed by sanding.

Looking better anyhow.

Gla$$ed the driver side of the floor. Same layup as before: biaxial, mat, and cloth. The work from yesterday was cured and seems very sturdy. Probably don't need more gla$$ but have not decided yet.

Need to climb under the plywood on the floor and attach strips to seal off the bilge from the floor. Probably install a brace then as well.

Looking much more like a boat. The back half of the bilge looks like Baghdad. Plenty of work left.

Hey Bill,

I am very impressed with your work. Owning a 1983 2001, I am thinking about taking on the same job myself this summer.

I was wondering, what type of materials to use (such as fibergla$$ types and resins). Also if any special tools were needed. I have experience working with engines and fibergla$$ on boats, but never something of this extent. About how much money did you spend in material and how much time in labor?

leo0648 wrote: I was wondering, what type of materials to use (such as fibergla$$ types and resins). Also if any special tools were needed. I have experience working with engines and fibergla$$ on boats, but never something of this extent. About how much money did you spend in material and how much time in labor?

The only special tool I used was an engine crane to remove the engine. That is one option. It is not the best either because the crane does not extend far enough to the center of the boat and I had to deflate a tire to clear the boat. Another option is a tripod with a ratcheting chain lift. Some people have used the rafters in their garage and a come along. I don't recommend that method.

To remove the floor and most of the cutting I used an air powered hand saw. Got it at an auto parts store. When the blades are good they pull right through the cut. Blades are inexpensive. To remove the foam I used a 24" long wrecking bar (bent on one end - straight on the other) and a variety of metal scrapers (1", 2", and 4" wide). For grinding the excess gla$$ and bumps I used an electric grinder with a flapper belt. For most sanding I use an orbital sander. To adjust the heightof stringers and other shaping I used a hand plane, level, tape measure, and dial caliper. To cut the gla$$ I use scissors. To apply the resin I use disposable wood handle brushes. To get out the bubbles I use a 3/8" roller.

For all work in the floor, stringers, and anything else between water and the floor I used epoxy resin (635 thin resin). For the gla$$ I used a lot of the 8.9oz cloth tapes (2", 4", and 8" wide). Primarily I use 10oz E gla$$ cloth for the finish; biaxial mat is awesome for build up and adds strength; epoxy mat is good for adding thickness. For bedding the stringers use chopped strand filler (I used micro fibers but apparently they don't add strength). For thickening I use aerosol-cabosil. For a sanding filler I use 3M gla$$ bubbles or fairing compound. The foam I used was 4lb.

Buy almost everything from US Composites. Many thanks to Mark who has given me plenty of technical support on the phone.

US Composites

So far as cost I lost track long ago. (Won't be buying that Perfect Pa$$ this season). I can say that for installing the stringers you need one gallon of epoxy resin per stringer. 10yds of mat, 10 yds of cloth, 50ft rolls of 2" 4" 8" 8.9 oz cloth, 5qts of chopped strand filler and cabosil will laminate and bed all of the stringers. The floor used two five gallon buckets of foam, 10yds of biaxial, 3yds of epoxy mat, and 3yds of 10oz cloth and 2" 4" and 8" rolls of 8.9 oz cloth. All together used six gallons of resin to make the floor.

As for time. When I planned this project I thought I would be done in 10 long 12 to 14 hour days ( I took a vacation). I started this project before Christmas. I am still working on it now. Some of that is because I was really not managing my time properly. I was able to cut the floor and remove most of the foam in one day. I had the rest of the foam out and one stringer in one day. Took 3 days to make, laminate, install, bed, and shape each stringer. Took two days to pour and shape the foam. Two days to gla$$ the floor. When I say days, I mean I went to work before the sun came up and stopped when my wife turned off the breakers in the garage.

Eventually I will put together a journal with photos, tools, materials, and lessons learned about the project. I'll burn a bunch of disks and send them to CCFans if they pledge a donation to the site. For now if you need more specific info send me an email if you want:

Bill

Good luck.

Thanks,

I will definately make a donation for that disk.

What is the reasoning for the different width tapes (2" 4" 8")? Is it to build up a slope?

how about using this for stringers instead.

http://www.coosacomposites.com/bluewater.html

leo0648 wrote: how about using this for stringers instead. http://www.coosacomposites.com/bluewater.html

I visited the link you provided. The material looks like it would be a great replacement for any plywood applications in the boat and would certainly work for the secondary stringers which are made of 1" pine.

Waterdog, a veteran of the site, works with composites for aircraft applications. He has been trying to come up with some combination of composites that could be used to replace the wood stringer.

I considered several options before I started my project. In the end, I went with the wood. The origional stringers lasted tweny years. I am certain that with the precautions I took to water proof the stringers they will last more than twenty years. The wood is relatively inexpensive and strong enough to support the forces of the engine and drive train.

The guy on "Ship Shape TV" once built a boat where he installed foam core stringers. They were light weight and very much water proof. But he was installing them for an outboard.

I belive you could make an integrated stringer system like the modern ski boats. You are limited only by your imagination, skills, and patience.

Bottom line, I recommend just use the large fir for the main stringers. If you want to use the composite material for the sub stringers that would work fine.

Bill,
This is a great looking project. Thanks for all the help.

Just curious, what branch are you in? I will be signing a contract soon over here at Texas A&M and will be going National Gaurd.

leo0648 wrote: Just curious, what branch are you in?

I am in the army. A cavalry scout MOS 19D4PD3YY. After my most recent trip to Iraq I was rea$$igned as a drill sergeant at Ft. Knox, KY. Rather be in Iraq.

I'll sleep when I am dead. (Besides, we are on cycle break - no privates).

Skibum & leo0648

I checked out the composite web site http://www.coosacomposites.com/bluewater.html
looks promising. I'm going to get a half dozen
samples ,cut'm up and do some tests interlaminer shear,flexural,compression this stuff looks like the "ticket".
Skibum
Do you remember the weight of the 2 by 8 fir main stringers (1 ea. ) Thanks

If I were a betting man (which I am not) I would bet with Mark Mel. Of course I could also see you checking it since you have been very thorough with this whole process. I say eff it and wrap that carpet around the edges so it will sort of self adjust.

Either way, awesome job and this is one of the best threads to consult for stringer/floor work.

P.S. Thank you for serving.

Waterdog, I think I am going to go the same route as skibum with wood. I didnt get a quote from coosa on the material, but my guess is that it is a lot more expensive than wood. If I do the stringer job, I am going to make it bulletproof just like skibum. I know that the wood will stay waterproof, but will it maintain its strength over 20-25 years? I haven't taken strength of materials yet in college, but I can imagine that all the energy that the stringer absorbs will eventually break down the integrity of the wood, even if the wood stays dry. With composite, I think you will maintain your strength over a longer period of time. Although, to me, 20-25 years with wood is pretty good. That would mean that my boat was 50-60 years old and it only cost me a summer of fibergla$$ work.