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water pump issue - on hose

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terminaldegree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: water pump issue - on hose
    Posted: June-22-2019 at 12:51am
Hi and thanks for reading this,

I’m finally getting through enough of my maintenance and commissioning “punch list” to get the boat in my signature launched for the year.

Previous owner plumbed in a hose hookup between the water strainer and the transmission cooler; I use it to flush out the engine or suck in antifreeze at the beginning and end of each season. After doing the annual water pump impeller kit job (old impeller was intact, by the way), it doesn’t want to suck the hose water through to the pump and is just sending it back through the strainer and out the through hull intake. Water wasn’t coming out the exhaust outlet and the risers were getting warm, so I shut everything down after maybe 30 seconds.

Is this some sort of priming issue that will go away when I drop the boat in the lake? There’s no leaks from the water pump, water runs freely through the transmission cooler and through the hose that supplies the water pump, and I checked all my hose clamps. Any advice?
1996 Sport Nautique GT40/Acme 422
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2019 at 1:31am
It is very easy to install the raw water pump upside-down (backward). That would be my first guess. The plagiarized picture below can help:



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terminaldegree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2019 at 1:40am
Hey JQ,

Thanks for your reply and the drawings. I didn't know the pump was directional, and looking at your GT40 drawing, I think I'm in backwards. Will flip it around and try again in the morning...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terminaldegree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2019 at 12:26pm
I flipped it around the other direction this morning and it worked like a charm. You were absolutely right. Thanks again!

On a related note, does anyone have a preferred water pump rebuild service? Or, is new (yikes, $$$) the way to go? This wear surfaces of this one are used up enough that I should probably swap it out at the end of the season. I don't have time to rebuild the pump myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2019 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by terminaldegree terminaldegree wrote:

I flipped it around the other direction this morning and it worked like a charm. You were absolutely right. Thanks again!

Owen,
Was the test on the hose or out on the water? I ask because if on the hose without pressure relief like the "Timmy tee" provides, the pressure from the hose can mask poor pump performance.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terminaldegree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2019 at 4:49pm
The test was on the hose, but the boat launch is only 1.5 miles from the house. Temperature on the gauge stayed right at 160 on the ride back to the boathouse. Will keep a close eye on the gauge and the exhaust riser temperature for the first few rides of the season.

Thanks for that info, Peter.
I'm glad to see both of you still posting here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2019 at 2:32am
I know it is late June already and we are hot out here in the West but my boat was not water ready until tonight.
Went through the trailer brakes, had to rebuild the Master Cylinder this year, found 3 wheels had water in them, two needed new bearings, dang, now it all works perfect and smooth. Oil changed and hooked up my boat to the Timmy T this morning.   SInce it has not run in a year I took my Temperature gun, a Fluke Tool with me to watch temps as the engine warmed up on the driveway.
It fired on the first touch of the key. All good. I had my hose running full blast and it is a 3/4 hose with a strong feed, normally at idle I cut the hose down to about 1/2 flow and it works well but I had it at full flow for first start.
The engine sounded great, zero noise from my raw water pump impeller.
I start reading temps all over the engine expecting nothing to show up odd.
At idle my exhaust risors were hot to the touch, temp read about 165???   I know with good flow they might see 80 degrees but not 165?
I put my hand on the raw water pump body and it was warm, 120 degrees. Should have cold flow keeping it cold, I expected maybe 70 degrees at the RWP?
Shut everything down. Start looking for issues. All look fine.
I installed a new impeller thinking my impeller must have failed.
The old impeller looked brand new, zero damage and it was insalled last May, 2018.

Fired it back up with the New Impeller with no confidence I had fixed anything.
I had not. Temps were exactly the same and I shut it off again.
Then I remembered this Post, I came back and re read it and DAMN, my Raw water pump was in backwards.   Now for the bad part, it was in backwards all season last year for sure and based on the marks I was trusting on the RWP maybe since 2014 when I bought it. I put the most recent impeller in back in May 2018. I don't remember my temp gauge ever running hotter than 170 maybe, I watch it all the time.
I went out and switched the raw water pump around and fired it up.
BINGO, lots more water out the exhaust, Cold touch to the raw water pump at 1,500 RPM.
Cool touch to the exhaust risors 80-90 degrees, much better than 165 at idle.   Johnny Quest your posted Picture stuck in my head and when I found the temp issues it got me straightened out.
My pump has marks on it showing me how to orient it and which side faces out.
These markes are all wrong by the picture and by the results.
I have no idea how many years it ran this way but I am glad I took my Temperature gun out there today or I may have never found this issue.
A big Thank You to those that responded to Terminaldegree you may have saved my engine.

My big question, there was a big difference in water flow when the pump was corrected.
My exhaust now shoots water out 5 foot from the rear of my boat on the driveway.
Do you guys have any idea why my engine or exhaust system survived running this boat for at least one year with it in backwards? I think it should have melted down.
It never made the noise associated with a dry RWP, I have heard that noise a couple times in my 35 years of tournament boat ownership.
It has been run hard and as I mentioned I always watch the temps and it has been reading good on my guage.
There you have it, I am guilty!

Thinking back on this boat since I owned it, on cold mornings at idle on the water in gear I would have steam rising off the exhaust, when the day warmed up it always went away.
I always blamed this on the single 4" exhaust on this Nautique.   Makes me think it has always had this flow problem. I did fight some overheat issues when I purchased it but they stopped when I replaced my first impeller in this boat after the first water test.EDIT: IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED THAT THE NEW IMPELLER WAS INSTALLED WITH THE PUMP INVERTED, READ TO THE END IF YOU WISH ALL DETAILS BUT AN INVERTED PUMP WILL NOT MOVE ENOUGH WATER TO WORK AT ALL!!! end of edit:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2019 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

I know it is late June already and we are hot out here in the West but my boat was not water ready until tonight.
Went through the trailer brakes, had to rebuild the Master Cylinder this year, found 3 wheels had water in them, two needed new bearings, dang, now it all works perfect and smooth. Oil changed and hooked up my boat to the Timmy T this morning.   SInce it has not run in a year I took my Temperature gun, a Fluke Tool with me to watch temps as the engine warmed up on the driveway.
It fired on the first touch of the key. All good. I had my hose running full blast and it is a 3/4 hose with a strong feed, normally at idle I cut the hose down to about 1/2 flow and it works well but I had it at full flow for first start.
The engine sounded great, zero noise from my raw water pump impeller.
I start reading temps all over the engine expecting nothing to show up odd.
At idle my exhaust risors were hot to the touch, temp read about 165???   I know with good flow they might see 80 degrees but not 165?
I put my hand on the raw water pump body and it was warm, 120 degrees. Should have cold flow keeping it cold, I expected maybe 70 degrees at the RWP?
Shut everything down. Start looking for issues. All look fine.
I installed a new impeller thinking my impeller must have failed.
The old impeller looked brand new, zero damage and it was insalled last May, 2018.

Fired it back up with the New Impeller with no confidence I had fixed anything.
I had not. Temps were exactly the same and I shut it off again.
Then I remembered this Post, I came back and re read it and DAMN, my Raw water pump was in backwards.   Now for the bad part, it was in backwards all season last year for sure and based on the marks I was trusting on the RWP maybe since 2014 when I bought it. I put the most recent impeller in back in May 2018. I don't remember my temp gauge ever running hotter than 170 maybe, I watch it all the time.
I went out and switched the raw water pump around and fired it up.
BINGO, lots more water out the exhaust, Cold touch to the raw water pump at 1,500 RPM.
Cool touch to the exhaust risors 80-90 degrees, much better than 165 at idle.   Johnny Quest your posted Picture stuck in my head and when I found the temp issues it got me straightened out.
My pump has marks on it showing me how to orient it and which side faces out.
These markes are all wrong by the picture and by the results.
I have no idea how many years it ran this way but I am glad I took my Temperature gun out there today or I may have never found this issue.
A big Thank You to those that responded to Terminaldegree you may have saved my engine.

My big question, there was a big difference in water flow when the pump was corrected.
My exhaust now shoots water out 5 foot from the rear of my boat on the driveway.
Do you guys have any idea why my engine or exhaust system survived running this boat for at least one year with it in backwards? I think it should have melted down.
It never made the noise associated with a dry RWP, I have heard that noise a couple times in my 35 years of tournament boat ownership.
It has been run hard and as I mentioned I always watch the temps and it has been reading good on my guage.
There you have it, I am guilty!

Thinking back on this boat since I owned it, on cold mornings at idle on the water in gear I would have steam rising off the exhaust, when the day warmed up it always went away.
I always blamed this on the single 4" exhaust on this Nautique.   Makes me think it has always had this flow problem. I did fight some overheat issues when I purchased it but they stopped when I replaced my first impeller in this boat after the first water test.


Mark

There's a lot that doesn't make sense in what you said here.

For years here on CCF it's been said that if you had the pump installed wrong so that the suction and discharge are swapped with each other, it won't pump any water and people have eaten up impellers and overheated engines because of that..

After reading this earlier I figured it's easy enough to check this so I trotted out to the dock with some tools and an extra length of hose and picked my favorite boat to experiment on and swapped the hoses around so the discharge had the suction hose hooked to it and the discharge went into a 5 gallon bucket.

Started it up and the pump was pumping nothing. The pump wouldn't prime itself and draw any water.

Returned things to normal and the pump put out plenty of water. Instant flow out of the discharge hose

Did it all over again just to verify the results and they were the same

I'll point out that no exhaust hoses or impellers were harmed or killed doing this test   

So I don't know what you had or think you had for markings, but it only works one way and for you that's the GT40 picture earlier in the thread that JQ pirated from Hollywood. and maybe Hollywood got it from somebody else. The screw head on the pump faces in towards the engine on your normal rotation GT40

I know JQ didn't make it 'cause there's not enough RED in it

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2019 at 1:27pm
I find it hard to believe your engine survived even an hour with the RWP backwards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2019 at 3:59pm
It has me scratching my head also, reason for the long rant above.
Before and after the impeller was replaced yesterday the drain screw was facing out away from my engine.   It did run this way last year unless someone opened my engine cover in my garage over the winter and changed it.   
The engine ran great last year and it fired up perfect with zero odd noises this year.
When the pump was reversed there was a big difference in flow instantly.
The May 2018 impeller I removed was perfect looking, no need to change it but I had a spare so I installed it.
I would think the boat should have melted down, exhaust should have burned up but it did not. Knock on wood all seems perfect. I took my dremel tool and cut a 1/2 inch wide slot that goes accross the side of the pump, the brass insert and the pump body. It is just a deep scratch I added so I could always quickly assemble it with little thought.   That scratch is right above the Drain screw and was put on this pump mounted on the engine. I normally run my impellers two years and change them.
Ken, are you sure you don't have a hole in your bucket?
On my boat with both impellers the pump ran about 120 degrees prior to my reversing it.
The exhaust risors were above 160 while the exhaust outlets were approaching 300 which tells me some water had to be moving.
I ran it a good 5 minutes the first time before shutting down but only 1 or 2 minutes with the new impeller.   
Neither impeller made that awful dry sound they let out when run dry so they had some lubrication.   My boat ran about 20 hours last year, not a lot but certainly more than 15 minutes.   The RWP has a total of 175 hours on the meter today so it is in near new condition.
Thinking about this more, I installed the Timmy T 3 years ago, after that install I remember the T working well, I had a Chesapeak Bay Retriever that has now passed, he was still energetic back then and I remember him playing in the Exhaust water spray after the Timmy T install so at that point the pump had to be in correctly.   It must have been installed wrong in May of 2018, that would have been my normal 2 year impeller change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2019 at 2:00am
My new replacement Impeller arrived today, I took pictures of this unit next to the removed May 2018 Impeller.   The 2018 version still looks like it could last a couple more years and shows zero sign of overheat or failure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-26-2019 at 10:32pm
I think you need to turn your pump back to the way you think you had it and suck from a bucket,( no Timmy T with garden hose pressure allowed) and run the discharge to another bucket and see how much water ends up in the discharge bucket.

The pump just plain won't work if you're trying to suck water into the discharge side and push it out the suction side with the impeller still spinning in the same direction
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2019 at 12:38am
Ken, I ran it in the lake last year for 20-25 hours use. The engine is still alive.
I called a ski buddy this morning. He told me I mentioned the temps were running a little high when we skied last September. I must not have been worried because I did not remember it at all. We were drinking while skiing, that might have had something to do with the memory issue.

Because of your post I was tempted to flip it and give it another boat test just to confirm but that probably won't happen unless I get bored.

I only caught this because I took the IR gun into the boat on first start just to trouble check and Wham, I found trouble.   I still think it should have melted down but so far it is solid.
If it blows a head gasket early on this year at least I know why, it will be no surprise and that is an easy fix so no worries.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2019 at 1:16am
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

Because of your post I was tempted to flip it and give it another boat test just to confirm but that probably won't happen unless I get bored.


You will overheat and peg the temp gauge a mile from the ramp.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2019 at 2:35am
Roll Call:

How many of us have installed a raw water pump upside-down /backward and didn't realize for a minute or 2 when first running on the hose? I'll come clean and raise my hand.

JQ

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2019 at 3:26am
Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:

Roll Call:

How many of us have installed a raw water pump upside-down /backward and didn't realize for a minute or 2 when first running on the hose? I'll come clean and raise my hand.

JQ

(Yes, KENO, that picture was blatantly hijacked from another thread)


I’ll admit to at one time learning about every possible
Combination and permutation of all parts of the water pump on a
V-drive. I have to admit the scars from that had something to do with going back to direct drive!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2019 at 4:26am
Hollywood, it ran all year last year inverted. It was still that way when I fired it up this year.
I had no intention of changing the impeller till I found the exhaust manifolds were at 165 adn I knew they should be much cooler. If I did not have my temp gun out and did not put my palm on the manifolds it would not be discovered yet.

Look at the impeller that was removed with 25 hours on it. It was lubricated or it would be torn to pieces.   There was a big difference in cooling as soon as it was flipped for sure and I am happy about that but it survived last year somehow in spite of the install.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2019 at 8:29am
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

Ken, I ran it in the lake last year for 20-25 hours use. The engine is still alive.
I called a ski buddy this morning. He told me I mentioned the temps were running a little high when we skied last September. I must not have been worried because I did not remember it at all. We were drinking while skiing, that might have had something to do with the memory issue.

Because of your post I was tempted to flip it and give it another boat test just to confirm but that probably won't happen unless I get bored.

I only caught this because I took the IR gun into the boat on first start just to trouble check and Wham, I found trouble.   I still think it should have melted down but so far it is solid.
If it blows a head gasket early on this year at least I know why, it will be no surprise and that is an easy fix so no worries.


You need to get bored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2019 at 8:33am
Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:

Roll Call:

How many of us have installed a raw water pump upside-down /backward and didn't realize for a minute or 2 when first running on the hose? I'll come clean and raise my hand.

JQ

(Yes, KENO, that picture was blatantly hijacked from another thread)


And it's a good picture, I was just picking on the lack of RED

That and the TRB wiring diagram are the 2 most useful pictures/drawings here on CCF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stepper459 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2019 at 11:54am
I don't know how your engine didn't overheat in 5 minutes with the pump on backwards. I mean, a loose strainer bowl can cause cooling issues. I burned through exhaust hoses on my old boat when the cooling system was otherwise operating perfectly, with no flow issues on the engine side of things at all. There was some minor restriction in a muffler causing JUST enough back pressure at idle (but not above 1000 rpm) that caused most of the water to go to one side. Standard exhaust hoses are rated only to ~250F - intermittent, not continuous - and they'll melt through.

I'm baffled.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2019 at 3:07pm
Based on the looks of the May 2018 impeller as removed it was moving some water just not enough as it should. There was a big difference when it was corrected. I had no engine warning light and the temp never went high enough to concern me last year.
5 years ago when I initially had overheat issues I removed every connection on the inlet side. I used a film of silicone around each hose bib before sliding each hose on and then clamping. I wanted to make sure I had all vacuum leaks sealed. New O'ring for the water filter also.   The inlet side is tight but I am still shocked it did not at least burn up the exhaust hoses, it never even smelled hot last year so some water was moving through the block and exhaust.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2019 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

Based on the looks of the May 2018 impeller as removed it was moving some water just not enough as it should. There was a big difference when it was corrected. I had no engine warning light and the temp never went high enough to concern me last year.
5 years ago when I initially had overheat issues I removed every connection on the inlet side. I used a film of silicone around each hose bib before sliding each hose on and then clamping. I wanted to make sure I had all vacuum leaks sealed. New O'ring for the water filter also.   The inlet side is tight but I am still shocked it did not at least burn up the exhaust hoses, it never even smelled hot last year so some water was moving through the block and exhaust.


You're livin' in a dream world   

Flop it around and do the test mentioned earlier

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2019 at 5:16pm
Yeah you’re not moving any water if the pump is on backwards... something smells funny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2019 at 6:12pm
Something smells burny
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stepper459 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2019 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by tryathlete tryathlete wrote:

Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:

Roll Call:

How many of us have installed a raw water pump upside-down /backward and didn't realize for a minute or 2 when first running on the hose? I'll come clean and raise my hand.

JQ

(Yes, KENO, that picture was blatantly hijacked from another thread)


I’ll admit to at one time learning about every possible
Combination and permutation of all parts of the water pump on a
V-drive. I have to admit the scars from that had something to do with going back to direct drive!


For sure, changing the impeller on a v-drive is quite a bit less comfortable than, let's say, dental surgery. At least then I'm lying in a comfy chair.

I installed a y-pipe for a heater return line last year, and in the confusion of being upside down and backwards, and with the hose routing being so complex compared to a direct drive, I put the Y in AFTER the pump, and facing the wrong way (I thought I was putting it on the suction side of the pump). I fought with air bubbles in the heater line for probably a couple hours before giving up. I flushed out the heater core, thinking there was a blockage maybe? Still no difference.

DAYS later I went back to the boat to have another look and it hit me. I switched it around and like magic, it worked perfectly. Thankfully it didn't cause any problems beyond weak heat output.

Oh, and I once installed a new steering cable into an old outboard with the kind of cable that ran around via pulleys and wrapped on the back of the wheel... some of you have seen these no doubt. But I wrapped it the wrong way, so the steering was backwards. That was fun.

Back on topic, I think you must have flipped the pump when you winterized it or something, and don't remember. Maybe you had a few winterizing beverages? Not judging. Just speculating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2019 at 9:12pm
Well, I had to do it. I inverted the pump today and headed out to the lake, I took tools and had an extra impeller just in case.
Since I launched alone the boat sat at the dock while I parked the car.
I fired up the boat at the dock, had my IR gun handy, Idled out of the 5 MPH zone and I had a timer running.
At 1:30 the engine was near 160 and I was now on the open lake so I ran it up to 2,500 RPM and held it. Temp was at 160, all good. At 2:30 I ran the RPM up to 3,500 and the boat was running really smooth and sounding great. I had no concerns. Now cruising at 3,500 I was just thinking I would open a cold beer and enjoy my cruise.   Just past the 3:30 mark the engine suddenly sputtered and I reached down and killed it with the key.   In this minute it went from 160 to over 180 and the computer kicked in to protect it from overheat.
Dang, this is hard to swallow but I want to be honest and report as it happened.

I was in the middle of the lake, lots of room so I popped the cover and took the next 10 minutes to remove and invert the Raw Water Pump to the proper posistion.
I did not take time to IR it at this point as I knew it was done and I had to be all wet with my prior notes.   
The RWP was more than warm, I could hold it in my hand but it was not comfortable.   I dipped it in the lake and cooled it. Now cool I rotated it to see if I should install my spare impeller at this point. The pump felt 100% normal.   Made the normal suction noise as I rotated. Looking at the blades as I rotated it all looked good, none torn or damaged that I could see through the inlet port.
Hooked everything up, tensioned the belt and fired it up.   I let it run for about 30 seconds to introduce some cooling water than shut it down for a few minutes to let the heat mix with the cold water. Put away the tools, fired it up and it was at 160 in about 1 minute and stayed there no matter what I did after this.   
So there you have it.   I fully agree these boat will not run with the RWP inverted.
Several of you knew this to be fact already based on the notes above.

Looking back, the boat ran well all last year but my buddy that skied with me in September last year said the boat was running a little warm and we had talked about this in September.
I had forgotten that conversation so I am thinking a little warm might have been 170 in September when we skied. I live in CA so winter prep to me is put the cover on and roll it into my garage where it never see's any temp below 58 degrees.
When I rolled it out last week for first start using my IR gun I found temps climbing and no water out the exhaust.   Due to this I shut down and replaced the impeller right away.
At this point I must have inverted the RWP.   I better add new marks on the impeller showing not just assembly but also mounting location. On second start I had the same issue with no water out the exhaust but this time the heat was caused by the inverted pump..   This is when I visited this Posting and inverted the RWP and fixed the water flow issue.
I must have also found and fixed the previous water flow issue. That would mean it probably had a vacuum leak on the intake hose at the pump.   I was using the Timmy T which is installed after the water filter so everything on the lake side of the Timmy T would not be in play.   When I pulled the hoses and replaced them I must have fixed a leak I was not even aware of on the pump side.   Nothing else makes sense to me.
For a final wrap, enough water comes in to lightly lubricate the RWP while inverted but not nearly enough to begin cooling the engine. A dry impeller will tear up very quickly and make noise doing it. This inverted impeller never did either.

On the positive side, I had three different people ask me if this boat was brand new, that really makes you feel great when it is 24 years old! The trailer Master Cylinder overhaul last week worked out great, the boat trailers really well and the brakes seem to work perfectly.
The 422 ACME installed last year is smooth as glass, quiet and really strong acceleration.

My Tach if accurate maxed out at 4,800-4,900 with a full tank of gas and one person on board with smooth water.   MPH was right at 48-49, I did not have my GPS today but I set the speedos with GPS last year and they read very close to itentical to each other today.
At 36 MPH the Tach was at 33-3400 which seems like a nice prop for cruising.
When I had the Acme 224 prop on this boat I did have a little more top speed, 2-3 MPH and it tached up a little higher, 5,100 - 5,200. I can't say I feel any differance between the two props both were quiet and good props on this boat.

I will finish with, I was taking pictures of my dashboard and the IR gun and looking forward to posting positive results from this inverted pump test but instead I hold my hat in my hand and say all you guys were right, you can't run one of these on an inverted pump it will burn up.
I hope this at least entertained you.

Now should I go back and edit the earlier posts so some poor owner does not read part of this post and think it is OK to invert his RWP?
Have a great weekend.
Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2019 at 9:53pm
Editing the posts would be a good thing.

Thanks for doing the test.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2019 at 10:23pm
Mark

Since I was the one who questioned your post originally, let me be the first one to give you all the credit in the world for listening, having a questioning attitude and going out and retesting things.

I figure you're getting some forced pressure through the hull intake from the forward motion of the boat to give a little bit of water to the pump.

I think if it's a simple edit to say "keep reading to get the rest of the story" , that would be good for the next guy.

I think I'd just blame any confusion on eating some hallucinogenic mushrooms on your pizza or something like that

So you get a big as far as I'm concerned

And.......you got to test your hi temp switch and make sure the limp mode worked as it should
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2019 at 11:08pm
5 years ago I bumped into the Hi Temp Test on my first outing in this boat. At that time I think it was a bad sender but not exactly sure since I changed the Oil Pressure sender, Water Temp Sender, Thermostat, Water Strainer O Ring, Impeller and checked all connections while adding a little silicone film around each nipple before the next test.
I did know exactly what was happening when I felt the engine stutter it was shut down in about 2 seconds and in 10 minues more the pump was inverted again. A little practice makes this job quick. It was nice to be out on the Lake today.
It ran good today so all is good. Hopefully the over heat was such short term I find no other issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stepper459 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2019 at 11:45pm
Thanks for going to the trouble, that does make me feel better haha. Except for where you were able to change out the impeller in no time, painlessly. Nothing I can do about that unless I go back to a direct drive. Maybe when my kids commandeer the SAN I'll get a Paragon. I can dream.

Cheers
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