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    Posted: June-17-2019 at 11:41pm
I rewired my dash recently with new gauges and pulled new wire etc. I have a 10 gauge wire from solenoid to battery terminal on switch. another 10 gauge white wire from start post on solenoid to start on switch and the purple wire from ballast resistor to ignition post on switch. problem is the volt gauge (and apparenly the rest of the gauges) is only seeing a little over 11 volts. which is the same voltage I'm seeing at the resistor.    

shouldnt the ignition terminal on the switch be seeing what the battery terminal is getting (which is 12.5 v) when the switch is in ON position?

it's new but maybe bad switch?

thanks in advance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 11:19am
Originally posted by hotrod5337 hotrod5337 wrote:

I rewired my dash recently with new gauges and pulled new wire etc. I have a 10 gauge wire from solenoid to battery terminal on switch. another 10 gauge white wire from start post on solenoid to start on switch and the purple wire from ballast resistor to ignition post on switch. problem is the volt gauge (and apparenly the rest of the gauges) is only seeing a little over 11 volts. which is the same voltage I'm seeing at the resistor.    

shouldnt the ignition terminal on the switch be seeing what the battery terminal is getting (which is 12.5 v) when the switch is in ON position?

it's new but maybe bad switch?

thanks in advance


What kind/year of engine are you dealing with.?

When you turn the key to the ON position you're supplying voltage/current to your ignition system and your electric choke whether the engine is running or not.

Assuming you have points and they happen to be closed, grounding the coil you have some current draw right there (maybe a couple or few amps) and your electric choke when energized draws about 1 amp so your voltage will be reduced.

If you were to unhook the purple wire from the inlet to the ballast resistor and read the voltage on the wire it should be higher like you're expecting..

Probably not a bad switch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 11:34am
it’s unclear if the voltage readings mentioned are being taken right at the switch (in the on position) or not. That would take all the variables out like ken is saying. There should not be a significant voltage drop through the switch.

You also seem to omit several components in your description of the rewire (namely breakers/fuses)... should we just assume that was for simplicity sake in your description?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotrod5337 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 11:54am
thanks for the reply KENO.
it's a 1974 PCM 302. it does still have the points setup. I didnt think much about what the volt gauge was reading until I cranked it up and volt meter didnt show the alt charging.    the gauge sits on 11 volts with engine running or not. but like I said the battery shows 12.5 testing w multimeter. the charging wire from the alternator was reading right at 16 volts around 1500 rpms. I didnt check the output of wire coming from regulator yet. maybe it's the culprit

thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotrod5337 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 11:57am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

it’s unclear if the voltage readings mentioned are being taken right at the switch (in the on position) or not. That would take all the variables out like ken is saying. There should not be a significant voltage drop through the switch.

You also seem to omit several components in your description of the rewire (namely breakers/fuses)... should we just assume that was for simplicity sake in your description?


yes readings were taken at the switch. and yes it was simplified. wiring was done following the diagrams I found on skidim for pcm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotrod5337 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 12:08pm


here's the way I wired the back on the dash. I used buss bars to keep from having too many ring terminals stacked on top of each other. the positive buss bar sees 12.5 volts. the battery terminal on switch sees 12.5 volts.   the ign terminal on switch sees a little over 11 volts with switch on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotrod5337 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 12:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 12:12pm
I’d return the switch. Is it a decent quality one like a Cole Herse?
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yes all switches were Cole herse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 12:18pm
Nice clean job... but man is it confusing with no color differentiation between 12v batt and 12v ignition (typically purple).

It also looks like you used the ignition breaker/fuse to fuse the ignition circuit rather than the 12v supply to the dash? I haven’t seen this before. Was it intentional?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotrod5337 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 12:26pm
no it wasnt intentional. couldnt find and diagrams of the dash wiring and I didnt know what I was doing.     

the original wiring was a mess and no help. I'm glad I posted. I will fix

Thanks!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotrod5337 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 12:30pm
agreed on the wire colors. wanted to get it done.   couldnt find any purple locally and wanted to use marine wire.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 12:36pm
Presumably the boat is a 74 like the engine...

Take a look at the dash wiring diagrams in the reference section. They’re typically for 80’s boats but the only major electrical difference would be the use of a ammeter vs voltmeter. That change happened around ‘79.

Yours looks to be wired for a voltmeter.
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i switched it to a volt meter and did away with the orange wire

I will look at the dash wiring.   

thank you
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I see what I did now with fusing the wrong circuit. I guess I was thinking that the breaker at the solenoid would cover the main 12v to dash wire. is it just a redundant fuse?

same thing I wondered about with having two nuetral safety switches. does one do something the other doesnt? even though with two small kids I'm all about it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 12:59pm
The dash fuse/breaker is typically lower (20a) than the main engine breaker (30-50a). Somewhat redundant yes (in terms of protecting the 10awg wire running to the dash) but will also protects the smaller (14-16awg) dash wires downstream of that breaker.

Besides the one on the transmission, what “2nd NSS” are you referring to?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotrod5337 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 1:07pm
well I guess it's not really a neutral safety but the switch inside of the Morse control. or teleflex control whoever's makes it. I've yet to see controls like the one on my boat. nuetral lock out knob has another switch in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 1:50pm
Morse controls are much more typical but there seem to have been a flurry of teleflec units installed in the 72-74 timeframe. Which do you have?

I have not inspected a teleflex unit up close, but have never seen the Morse flavor NSS actually wired on a CC. Have only seen the transmission switch used.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotrod5337 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 2:28pm
actually the trans nss was bypassed on this boat and only used the controls switch. but the controls switch was acting up and I had bypassed it years ago last time the boat was used to get back.   the boat was bought new in 74. couple pieces of interior re-covered over the years but boat is all original except for the things I've done to it. I'm not too savvy with what all components etc that correct craft used on the certain models.   I'll take a picture of it tonite .   I currently do not have it wired up. actually in process of installing new rudder and prop shaft packing along with new gland.

took me 2 hours to get the dang shaft coupler off. I'm wondering now how the hell I'm going to get it back on. had no idea it was a press fit. I guess deburring if needed and heating it?

I guess nows a good time to replace trans output shaft seal too. one thing leads to another with this project
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-qm7aPFB-LR7N4kJzIIKi5jcqdKLteOI/view?usp=drivesdk


here's a pic of the switch under the gunnel. had it on my phone
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by hotrod5337 hotrod5337 wrote:

i switched it to a volt meter and did away with the orange wire

I will look at the dash wiring.   

thank you


How did you do away with the orange wire?

It sounds like you don't have a complete circuit from the Alternator to the battery anymore.

Here's an engine diagram for a 1974 PCM that shows the wiring with an ammeter and tells how to wire for a voltmeter. See the dotted lines and the notes associated with the Orange wire. For a voltmeter the Orange wire goes straight to the starter solenoid (same terminal the battery cable hooks to) Then the mile and a half of Orange wire going up to the ammeter then the short Red wire to the keyswitch isn't needed and the battery will still charge.

It's a little tough to understand but the diagram shows how to wire it.



Also like TRB said, don't worry about that switch in the throttle control, they also got used with IO's and the switch was used in that application. With the Velvet Drives the switch on the transmission does the job.

Edit..........after seeing your last post about the switch being wired up (from the factory?) just use whichever switch you want to use.

And another also.............were the readings on the I terminal taken with nothing at all hooked to it ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotrod5337 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 3:34pm
thats it then.   I used that diagram and it threw me off the way it noted to cut the wire. i was looking at it as if the ammeter wasnt used that the orange wire looked to run strait past the solenoid so I thought maybe it was using another wire off of the alternator to charge from. (I didnt look or trace any other wires back from the alt or regulator as it's a bird's nest of wire under there. I need to clean it up) I'm spoiled with the internally regulated one wire setup GM uses. haha

I will connect the orange wire to solenoid and should get me back right

thanks for the help!



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KENO to answer your question, everything was hooked up when I was taking the readings. which is still kind of strange to me. without the orange wire connected to solenoid I would still think that with the key ON I should still see 12.5v (same voltage on switch batt post) on switch ign post ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 3:50pm
Correct that has nothing to do with the alt.

Alt needs to hook to battery one way or the other. Has to go through ammeter first if that’s at the dash. Otherwise I would connect the orange wire to the protected side of the engine breaker. The solenoid is the unprotected side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by hotrod5337 hotrod5337 wrote:

KENO to answer your question, everything was hooked up when I was taking the readings. which is still kind of strange to me. without the orange wire connected to solenoid I would still think that with the key ON I should still see 12.5v (same voltage on switch batt post) on switch ign post ?


Like TRB said, that question had nothing to do with the alternator but was about how you checked to get the voltage on the I terminal on the switch way back in the beginning of this thread

If you unhook everything from the I terminal and turn the key to ON the voltage on the B terminal on the switch and the I terminal should be the same if the switch is good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Correct that has nothing to do with the alt.

Alt needs to hook to battery one way or the other. Has to go through ammeter first if that’s at the dash. Otherwise I would connect the orange wire to the protected side of the engine breaker. The solenoid is the unprotected side.


The diagram shows a rather invisible engine breaker.

My 76 ( with an ammeter) had the same rather invisible breaker as built by PCM

Maybe he's got one , maybe he doesn't
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Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by hotrod5337 hotrod5337 wrote:

KENO to answer your question, everything was hooked up when I was taking the readings. which is still kind of strange to me. without the orange wire connected to solenoid I would still think that with the key ON I should still see 12.5v (same voltage on switch batt post) on switch ign post ?


Like TRB said, that question had nothing to do with the alternator but was about how you checked to get the voltage on the I terminal on the switch way back in the beginning of this thread

If you unhook everything from the I terminal and turn the key to ON the voltage on the B terminal on the switch and the I terminal should be the same if the switch is good.


10 4. understood. I will check this evening
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 5:03pm
If we are rewiring here, I would be making the invisible breaker much more visible... he did question the redundancy of the dash ign breaker so maybe he already has one.

Commander didn’t use those breakers either... and I know 2 people who melted their wiring harnesses pretty good .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotrod5337 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Correct that has nothing to do with the alt.

Alt needs to hook to battery one way or the other. Has to go through ammeter first if that’s at the dash. Otherwise I would connect the orange wire to the protected side of the engine breaker. The solenoid is the unprotected side.


The diagram shows a rather invisible engine breaker.

My 76 ( with an ammeter) had the same rather invisible breaker as built by PCM

Maybe he's got one , maybe he doesn't


nope didnt ever have one.   which explains a melting contest between the 10 ga red and 10 ga orange wires up to the dash at some point long ago.    I'm 42 and can always remember as a kid noticing the melted wire connector at the back of the engine. anyway all fixed now and with a breaker.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2019 at 5:34pm
A little excursion thru the PCM illustrated parts manual told me a few things I didn't realize about breakers ,alternators etc.

Before 1983 they list no breaker at all

83 thru 86 a 40 amp breaker is listed

87 on a 50 amp breaker is listed

Now if you look at alternators

before 83 they used the Prestolite 37A with the rear of engine mounted external voltage regulator.

83 thru 86 they uses a 37A Motorola with built in regulator

from 87 on the alternator was a Motorola or Mando with a 50 A capacity.

So the engine breaker didn't come along until the externally regulated Prestolites disappeared.

The wiring harnesses changed in the same years too.

Pretty handy book that Illustrated parts manual   

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